Train information now in real time for journey planners

[michael769]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22013232

Train information now in real time for journey planners

Those frustrating times spent standing on a railway station platform watching as your "delayed" train suddenly disappears from the departure board without warning may be coming to a rather welcome end.

By 2015 the UK's National Rail Enquiries (NRE) service intends to provide an "intelligent" data feed of real-time rail information to departure boards around the country as well as powering its own smartphone apps and website.

NRE has spent 13 years developing the system, now named Darwin in homage to its extended evolution (it is also less of a mouthful than the original title, Real Time Train Information).

Darwin is a computer program that uses algorithms and logic to blend a load of data, including timetable information, real-time updates on signalling and speed restrictions, and "insider knowledge" such as extra time factored in between stations on some routes.

It is an intensive programme to run. Darwin, along with NRE's other systems, currently occupies two data centres in Yorkshire, at Doncaster and Knottingley, although they are due to be merged this year.

It already powers the service's website and rail journey planner app, downloaded by nearly 3m smartphone users.

"Darwin gives us a picture of how things should be running versus how they actually are running," NRE head of online services Jason Webb told the BBC.

"We don't believe anyone else has a real-time journey planner."

Not sure how this is any advance on what we have had for a few years.

 

[greatkingrat]

I think the idea is the journey planner will adjust its suggested routings in real time based on the actual status of the trains. So if all Virgin trains from Euston - New St are severely delayed, it may suggest Chiltern from Marylebone instead.

This may raise issues with ticket validities though, if NRE suggest an alternative route that is not normally permitted.

 

[High Dyke]

...This may raise issues with ticket validities though, if NRE suggest an alternative route that is not normally permitted.

If there is a serious delay wouldn't any restrictions be probably lifted to allow travel; and would NRE be able to advise this was acceptable?

 

[dysonsphere]

If there is a serious delay wouldn't any restrictions be probably lifted to allow travel; and would NRE be able to advise this was acceptable?

They might but they also might not if you get my drift. No use advising people to change routes if ticket restrictions are not lifted. Hopefully this info could be included in the program inputs.

 

[michael769]

This may raise issues with ticket validities though, if NRE suggest an alternative route that is not normally permitted.

As NRE is acts as agent of the ToCs said suggestion would IMO be a lawful authorisation to use such a route.

I agree though it might still cause issues with some staff unless they are adequately trained on the subject.

 

[tsr]

Surely, given the gradually-approaching but nonetheless looming days of more and more smartcards holding tickets, a user could scan their smartcard with their phone and be advised if they are permitted to use any suggested alternative route? Similarly, TVMs could bring up a map/itinerary when requested, and possibly print or email it.

Or is that way too innovative?

 

[Bungle73]

Surely, given the gradually-approaching but nonetheless looming days of more and more smartcards holding tickets, a user could scan their smartcard with their phone and be advised if they are permitted to use any suggested alternative route? Similarly, TVMs could bring up a map/itinerary when requested, and possibly print or email it.

Or is that way too innovative?

How would they do that? Smart cards use a chip.

In any case I still cannot see how smart cards can work on system that has so many different ticket types and different travel restrictions.

 

[rp91]

How would they do that? Smart cards use a chip.

My phone can read my oyster card I think (although it's encrypted so can't get anything off it). May have made that up but it can do it with my passport too. So it's technically possible depending on what smartcards are in use.

 

[tsr]

How would they do that? Smart cards use a chip.

My phone can read my oyster card I think (although it's encrypted so can't get anything off it). May have made that up but it can do it with my passport too. So it's technically possible depending on what smartcards are in use.

I'm not sure about Oyster cards (due to the type of technology) and I certainly haven't heard much about passports, but I do know certain NFC-enabled phones (one or two from Samsung - can't remember the names - spring to mind, in particular) can read TOC-issued smartcards and moreover the data is easily readable.

 

[transmanche]

In any case I still cannot see how smart cards can work on system that has so many different ticket types and different travel restrictions.

That's assuming the current fares & ticketing regime would simply be mapped onto smartcards. But it's likely that the current fares & ticketing regime would change - new products will appear and old ones will disappear.

• Local/regional fares will probably become zonal based single fares (rather than point-to-point), as per the various Transport & Tariff Associations in Germany. We already have this for Oyster PAYG in London.
  
• For long distance journeys, I expect that in the future that (Super) Off-Peak and Anytime tickets will be sold as singles rather than returns - like Advance tickets. (East Coast already sell Super Off-Peak singles at half the return price (instead of £1 less) for some journeys.)

 

[Michael.Y]

I read this to mean that perhaps self-updating PIS boards and online apps will no longer be totally reliant on track circuits and/or signalbox reports -- too often a PIS board will say something like

19:15 London Euston On Time
[19:16:44]

which of course is no use to anyone - pax or staff.

 

[sheff1]

I read this to mean that perhaps self-updating PIS boards and online apps will no longer be totally reliant on track circuits and/or signalbox reports -- too often a PIS board will say something like

19:15 London Euston On Time
[19:16:44]

which of course is no use to anyone - pax or staff.

I assume this too. The current system is rather pointless when you are standiing on the platform at, say, Doncaster and the PIS tells you the train has 'Arrived' when it is not even visible on the approach a quarter of a mile to the North.

 

[Tomnick]

I'm not convinced - there's no mention of any additional sources of data, so presumably it'll all still come from TRUST reports...but perhaps with more useful analysis and presentation of that data?

 

[causton]

I read this to mean that perhaps self-updating PIS boards and online apps will no longer be totally reliant on track circuits and/or signalbox reports -- too often a PIS board will say something like

19:15 London Euston On Time
[19:16:44]

which of course is no use to anyone - pax or staff.

Of course that is always because the train could have arrived at the platform already, and be scheduled to leave in the passenger table at 1915 but in the Working timetable at 1917. Otherwise a lot of (not sure how much the difference is 2 minutes though!) intercity-style trains would say they were late on the boards at each stop because of the differential in the WTT!

 

[Michael.Y]

Of course that is always because the train could have arrived at the platform already, and be scheduled to leave in the passenger table at 1915 but in the Working timetable at 1917. Otherwise a lot of (not sure how much the difference is 2 minutes though!) intercity-style trains would say they were late on the boards at each stop because of the differential in the WTT!

Maybe, but there are still occasions when my example updates to

19:15 London Euston Exp. 1925
19:19:11

when the train enters the final section pre-station.