Deafdoggie
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Sep 2016
- Messages
- 3,092
Would you dial 999 because a train missed your stop? If no, then it's not an emergency.
So, just to be clear, your definition of emergency is calling 999?
Would you dial 999 because a train missed your stop? If no, then it's not an emergency.
I'm a passenger. I know it. I know it through common sense.How does a passenger know this?
If the passcom was out, I would call 999 in that situation.I wouldn't dial 999 if a door was open on a train but nobody had fallen out either (let's say a sliding door so not out of gauge). However, that absolutely is a valid use of the passcom.
I'm a passenger. I know it. I know it through common sense.
I think staff don't like the idea that passengers are bringing attention to driver errors. Even if the driver's diagram was wrong, they should have noticed an inconsistency between their diagram and the PIS on the station
Alert a member of staff, not pull the emergency handle.Common sense to me says something has gone wrong, it is not right, "See it, say it, sorted" I will say it. How is ignoring the continual "See it, Say it, Sorted, Alert a member of rail staff" announcements common sense? Adhering to them is much more sensible. If a train had an accident because everyone ignored the "See it, say it, sorted" advice, there would be uproar.
Alert a member of staff, not pull the emergency handle.
This has gone round in circles.
Indeed, the passcomm says "Use this to talk to driver"
Which... on DOO services... is the only member of staff on board. I really am seeing circles here. :P
To all those saying train missing a station is not an emergency, what if it missed two stations? Is that an emergency? Three? All of them? Hurtling towards destination station at full speed?
Two stations, with no announcement - possibly.To all those saying train missing a station is not an emergency, what if it missed two stations? Is that an emergency? Three? All of them? Hurtling towards destination station at full speed?
No, I wouldn't - but I think we have to accept that more people might have watched things like disaster movies than read this forum, and some of them might do that - or pull the alarm....Would you dial 999 because a train missed your stop? If no, then it's not an emergency.
exactly - and if this forum had similar viewing figures to that then there would be no risk....Sounds like The Taking Of Pelham 123!
Would you dial 999 because a train missed your stop? If no, then it's not an emergency.
Yet you seem to be saying that, with an open door on a DOO train, we should not be alerting the driver immediately because calling 999 is not appropriate.
The poster you are quoting, @221129, doesn't appear to have said anything about open doors.An open door on a train on which you are travelling would not warrant a 999 call but EMT, at least, appear to class it as an emergency. On their HSTs notices by the doors tell you to operate the alarm immediately if a door is not fully closed. There are multiple on-board staff, but we are told to take immediate (i.e. emergency) action rather than go and find them.
Yet you seem to be saying that, with an open door on a DOO train, we should not be alerting the driver immediately because calling 999 is not appropriate.
The poster you are quoting, @221129, doesn't appear to have said anything about open doors.
I wouldn't dial 999 if a door was open on a train but nobody had fallen out either (let's say a sliding door so not out of gauge). However, that absolutely is a valid use of the passcom.
Many years ago I shut the door of an HST coach that was open on departure from a station. It was out in the middle of nowhere and pulling the communication chord would only have delayed the service and got the guard into trouble.
Must have been many years ago. you can't now, as the central locking deadbolt stops it from closing if open.
Must have been many years ago. you can't now, as the central locking deadbolt stops it from closing if open.
I think staff don't like the idea that passengers are bringing attention to driver errors.
If this happened to me, and if the driver were the only member of staff on the train, I'd probably give them about two minutes to make an announcement. If nothing was forthcoming I would attempt to talk to the driver. I'd probably try knocking on the cab door first, but the passcom would be an option of last resort.
Even if the driver's diagram was wrong, they should have noticed an inconsistency between their diagram and the PIS on the station
I wouldn't dial 999 if a door was open on a train but nobody had fallen out either (let's say a sliding door so not out of gauge). However, that absolutely is a valid use of the passcom.
To all those saying train missing a station is not an emergency, what if it missed two stations? Is that an emergency? Three? All of them? Hurtling towards destination station at full speed?
I'm pretty sure that my locals don't say "emergency" either. Only "alarm". I wonder if anyone ranting about it not being an emergency has read the handle text recently... if so, on what class/livery/interior?Just looking at the Alarm on a Voyager as I type
A red sign by the handle says:
Alarm
Pull this handle
Speak to driver
Penalty for
Improper use
Below that is a panel with a green button or light (I’m not going to push it to test!) and a keyhole
It has speaker grill, a green light labelled Please wait and a yellow light labelled Speak to driver
Although the alarm handle is only at one side of the train, there is the lower panel at both sides
The poster you are quoting, @221129, doesn't appear to have said anything about open doors.
I would hope that an open door would trip the interlock and other safety system that should bring the unit to a grinding halt. It would also be traction specific so yes, If you see an open door, yank the Pascomm. That would be an emergency
Thanks @ComUtoR. Everything you said in your post makes sense to me. Thank you for taking the time to write it up!
This was clearly a Driver error. I don't think anyone really cares about it being brought to attention. I think what most people actually take umbrage with is that there is a lot of mis-understanding and lots of conclusions being jumped into, often head first. There is a lot ofangerpassion on both sides. Take my post about cancelling the train. Professionally that is the right thing to do and I explained my reasoning for it but this doesn't sit well with people so they lash out against it and it causes division in opinions. However, it is my professional response. If a Driver as made an error and hasn't noticed, absolutely 100%, without question or prevarication highlight it in some way. This is a sensible approach :
As long as it wasn't something dangerous, I would probably make my way to the cab or find a Guard etc and make it known. If the Driver missed a stop and there was no brake, no announcement etc then I'd be concerned and make my decision on what to do. Pretty much, when you make a mistake, you know about it.
The average passenger may conclude a train failing to stop at a booked station is an out of control train.
Only those with railway knowledge may realise the myriad of other reasons.