Trains and the Rugby World Cup

[30909]

My two penny worth, I’m a Rugby Club Vice President with a son employed by the RFU. We should get one thing straight in all the discussions the events a planned and run by Rugby World Cup not the RFU.
I have been to 5 pool matches, one each at Wembley, Queen Elizabeth Stadium Stratford, Milton Keynes, Twickenham and Millennium Stadium Cardiff. I have used public transport mostly rail for all or part of my journey from rural South West Trains area. All have been accomplished relatively easily and within one day. The two potentially most difficult were on 10 Oct Twickenham 11 Oct Millennium: both worked fine. For Twickenham via Waterloo and return arrived Twickenham at 13:00 returned at 21:00 approx. train terminated at Barnes (ill passenger) crush load on next service left Waterloo for the country at 22:30. No issues with crowds or service.
Millennium; drove to Bristol Parkway for first train out at 10:21 ex Paddington, crush load but on time into Cardiff. Return; I was aware of road coaches to Parkway, did a pre match recce of route from stadium gate to busses. Left our seats at end of play 18:40 ish arrived Parkway 19:55 well organised and well drilled staff and volunteers with bonus of a comfortable seat on the coach.
Planning was everything and keeping up with the media reports, looking at options, and sticking to a plan but with alternatives available.

 

[CdBrux]

Silly thing is the Premier League ensure Manchester United play away if Manchester City are at home and vice versa, the same with Liverpool/Everton.

I suspect that is more to do with avoiding a large punch up than anything else

 

[deltic]

I suspect that is more to do with avoiding a large punch up than anything else

In part - it is a police requirement to minimise impact on their resources

 

[richw]

In part - it is a police requirement to minimise impact on their resources

Would the police have had a say on two big rugby matches on same day? Kick off many hours apart I guess helped as Well?

I see the rfu are looking into further internationals to be held in Manchester due to the success of the game on Saturday to help bring international rugby up north. I guess things must have run relatively smoothly for them to speak so positively?

 

[Class 170101]

Would the police have had a say on two big rugby matches on same day? Kick off many hours apart I guess helped as Well?

I see the rfu are looking into further internationals to be held in Manchester due to the success of the game on Saturday to help bring international rugby up north. I guess things must have run relatively smoothly for them to speak so positively?

Is Twickenham due a rebuild? Would be copying football which is what they did when Wembley was re-built.

 

[30909]

No; Twickenham is not due a rebuild, the South Stand and associated commercial and administrative area was only completed a few years ago. The stadium has been progressively rebuilt since the mid 1990s and is unlikely to have major changes in the next 20 plus years. However taking some England international matches on a crusade to convert the heathens is not a bad idea

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Off topic i know but Union is the 5th maybe 6th Sport in Australia behind AFL, Cricket, Rugby League, Football and Maybe Motorsport eg V8's? i was shocked when the Frenchies played at Suncorp last year they couldnt even sell out the 2nd tier!

Suncorp is a better version of the Millennium alot more Intimate yet still has that Wow factor

 

[island]

Would the police have had a say on two big rugby matches on same day? Kick off many hours apart I guess helped as Well?

I see the rfu are looking into further internationals to be held in Manchester due to the success of the game on Saturday to help bring international rugby up north. I guess things must have run relatively smoothly for them to speak so positively?

Rugby fans of both codes are, rightly or wrongly, considered less disruptive than football fans and tend to be deemed to require less police presence.

I would have welcomed football-style policing at and after the Ireland/France match in Cardiff last Sunday. A great many offences were committed in the vicinity of the match and on the train back to Paddington, such as s91 Criminal Justice Act 1967 (drunk and disorderly), s5 Public Order Act 1986 (threatening, abusive, or insulting words or behaviour liable to cause harassment, alarm, or distress), s5 Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (evasion of rail fares), s1 Licensing Act 1902 (drunk and incapable), s142 Licensing Act 2003 (purchase of alcohol for someone who is drunk), s1 Railway Byelaws 2005 (join a queue otherwise than at the back), s6 Railway Byelaws 2005 (unacceptable behaviour on the railway), s7 Railway Byelaws 2005 (sing on the railway), and plenty more besides.

 

[jimm]

Would the police have had a say on two big rugby matches on same day? Kick off many hours apart I guess helped as Well?

I see the rfu are looking into further internationals to be held in Manchester due to the success of the game on Saturday to help bring international rugby up north. I guess things must have run relatively smoothly for them to speak so positively?

No one apart from the organisers of the rugby world cup seems to have had any say at all - it looks as though they just decided to go ahead and do it on a weekend when the football internationals guaranteed the Etihad was available even though the RL Superleague Grand Final has been at Old Trafford the second Saturday in October for many years. And I'd hardly call kick-offs two hours apart 'many', given the sheer number of people involved.

One of the factors that Cardiff has traditionally relied on to help disperse crowds smoothly is that, unless it's a late finish, not everyone rushes for the train immediately. RWC organisers seem to have ignored that and just expected the TOCs to cope with several late finishes in Cardiff and passenger flows that are far less predictable than Six Nations games. In Manchester on Saturday all they could do was try to hustle all the league fans out of the city pronto to make room for union supporters later, where in previous years many RL fans have gone for a meal or drinks after the game then headed home on late trains.

The various TOC Twitter feeds don't suggest it was all that smooth in Manchester with lots of complaints about overcrowding but the local media doesn't seem to have picked up on it - perhaps not so many years of moaning as there have been on big occasions at Cardiff to alert their Welsh counterparts to look out for problems - and the ability to channel people through Piccadilly, Victoria and Oxford Road rather than just one station probably helped them keep people on the move.

 

[northwichcat]

Rugby fans of both codes are, rightly or wrongly, considered less disruptive than football fans and tend to be deemed to require less police presence.

This is getting very off topic but I remember Wigan FC disputing Greater Manchester Police's charges for policing matches based on the fact their stadium is never full (for football) and there is rarely any trouble.

 

[PHILIPE]

This is getting very off topic but I remember Wigan FC disputing Greater Manchester Police's charges for policing matches based on the fact their stadium is never full (for football) and there is rarely any trouble.

I recall in Mrs Thatcher's time somebody queried why Football Clubs should be expected to pay for the policing but the Tory party didn't have to pay for the policing at their Conference. Anyway, straying off topic so please don't start new debate

 

[Hellfire]

Rugby fans of both codes are, rightly or wrongly, considered less disruptive than football fans and tend to be deemed to require less police presence.

My experience suggests that this is very true. I've been following rugby union for most of my life and have never seen any trouble associated with the game either at club matches or internationals. So much so that rugby union does not have a policy of segregating fans from opposite teams either inside or outside the stadium. The worst behaviour I have seen was Welsh fans peeing into gardens in Twickenham.

I was talking to a police inspector in Manchester last Saturday night when the city as full of both league and union supporters. He said the police were mainly there to ensure safety, they are digging up the middle of Manchester for new tramlines, and to deal with the odd drunk. He said he'd much rather police rugby supporters than football fans.

 

[richw]

My experience suggests that this is very true. I've been following rugby union for most of my life and have never seen any trouble associated with the game either at club matches or internationals. So much so that rugby union does not have a policy of segregating fans from opposite teams either inside or outside the stadium. The worst behaviour I have seen was Welsh fans peeing into gardens in Twickenham.

I was talking to a police inspector in Manchester last Saturday night when the city as full of both league and union supporters. He said the police were mainly there to ensure safety, they are digging up the middle of Manchester for new tramlines, and to deal with the odd drunk. He said he'd much rather police rugby supporters than football fans.

Just look at the England and Lithuania football fans earlier this week. Got near each other and all kicked off. Had that been rugby they would have been sat together.
The most I've seen at rugby is a bit of mouthing off, dont ever recall any violence at a rugby match. I went to England Wales a few years ago, and was sat with a Welsh man I'd never met before. By the end of the game we were buying each other beers and having a right good laugh. Had it been football we would have been fighting!

 

[Michael.Y]

French rugby fans are the worst.