Trains told to get rid of torrent of 'Tannoy spam'

[Howardh]

Huge amounts of "tannoy spam" continue to be made on my LNER journeys, including on some occasions misleading & inappropriate statements, but every other train company has been fine.

On Northern, and probably every other TOC too, many times the wrong station is announced, somehow the system goes wrong and isn't corrected - that's probably worse than not announcing the station at all. Imagine a passenger unused to the line, listens for the station name, hears it, get's off and it's one much further down the line/shorter than intended?
Has that happened in real life...and if so how often?? Yes I know that as long as the windows are clean and the station well lit you can see it isn't the right station, but the poor-sighted can't. Also for pax unfamiliar with the route, the preceding stations will be meaningless (so you wouldn't know your stop was "next").

 

[AM9]

How many have their TV on all day at home and haven't a clue what's on? It's treated as audio wallpaper just to fill the silence? Wouldn't the same apply to train annoncements, they just simply go over everyone (no matter how loud they are) because there are so many?

I've always had the radio on as a background. However, I do know the difference between a major news or safety announcement and DJ waffle or drama prose.

 

[Horizon22]

How many have their TV on all day at home and haven't a clue what's on? It's treated as audio wallpaper just to fill the silence? Wouldn't the same apply to train annoncements, they just simply go over everyone (no matter how loud they are) because there are so many?

I think a lot of people can "tune in" if approriate though - for example you can walk around the station or sit on a train just fine 90% of the time. When there's disruption or your train isn't moving, you might look pay a little bit more attention to see what is being said. I'd also say during disruption often not enough manual announcements are made, and many passengers will complain about this if they are on a station and it happens. CIS systems do have "disruption modes" which should silence all ongoing announcements, but is not always applied unless it gets really, really bad (like Friday / Satuday with the storms for instance).

As said before, many announcements do have a purpose but there are so many "purposes" that they often lose their value effecively and each one gets diluted.

 

[Parallel]

Huge amounts of "tannoy spam" continue to be made on my LNER journeys, including on some occasions misleading & inappropriate statements, but every other train company has been fine.

Just out of interest, what particular things are LNER announcing that other TOCs do not? This is a genuine question because I don’t use LNER often.

 

[Banham7]

Just out of interest, what particular things are LNER announcing that other TOCs do not? This is a genuine question because I don’t use LNER often.

The Standard things announced are "Hello and welcome aboard this LNER Azuma to X, we will call at X, the next station will be X. CCTV is in operation etc, this is only done when the train has left the station. When approaching a station, tannoy will announce "We will shortly be arriving at X, change here for trains to X". Personally, I wouldn't say it is "excessive". There is a known issue between Newark-Peterborough which is being worked on where announcements are being fired incorrectly, e.g. stops in the incorrect order or just random announcements being triggered.

 

[ABB125]

Just out of interest, what particular things are LNER announcing that other TOCs do not? This is a genuine question because I don’t use LNER often.

I imagine "you must wear a face covering" or similar is amongst the messages referred to!

(However, before I get told off for mentioning anything to do with coronavirus in the wrong section, discussion of said virus can be found here: https://railforums.co.uk/forums/covid-19-coronavirus-discussion.174/)

 

[physics34]

Current announcement doing the rounds at Victoria and many stations south of, on every train announcement, that some lifts at east croydon are out of service. East croydon has ramp to the exit anyway, overkill id say.

 

[yorkie]

Just out of interest, what particular things are LNER announcing that other TOCs do not? This is a genuine question because I don’t use LNER often.

Probably best I don't go into detail here about the stuff I found most inappropriate as there is a dedicated forum section for that and if I went into detail here we would risk going off topic.

Other things I can talk about here are: some of them have gone on about reservations a bit too much, some went on about diversions too much (e.g. mentioning Watton at Stone about 4 times!), some make lengthy announcements and keep automated announcements on so you get everything twice, including the security messaging. Some go on about ticketing matters too much e.g. listing almost every possible TOC whose tickets wouldn't be valid. One TM kept going on about how he was not going to check any tickets but anyone without one should ask him for a ticket as he passed through; he then seemed a bit miffed when no-one did (of course no-one did as barriers were in operation at King's Cross) and said rather threateningly that anyone without a ticket at the end of their journey could be charged "double"; there was really no need for this.

But I can finally say something positive about LNER, which is I am on the 1931 York to London right now and the TM (called Dan) has made by far the most professional and clear announcements of any of my recent LNER journeys; he even advised people for Lincoln to change at Doncaster instead of Newark due to the connection being missed at Newark. No mention of anything that doesn't need to be mentioned. I wish we could have more TMs like this on LNER.

 

[tbtc]

It's now over a month since Shapps' announcement and things don't seem to have changed much... in fact some people seem to be suggesting that announcements are increasing... almost like this was a quick/ easy/ cheap bit of culture war for Shapps to generate some juicy headlines and distract from the various problems that the Government were having...

See me, it would never occur to me to wonder if I had a "claim against the railway", whether I'd heard anything or not. Moreover, if anyone suggested that I did have one, I would suggest that they did something medically inadvisable with it.

Anyway, what if you're deaf? It's all just silly. What the government really ought to be doing is putting right whatever's gone wrong with the legal system that allows the notion of daft "claims" for trivial rubbish to be anything other than risible in the first place.

...but until the cultural/ legal positions etc are changed, the railway has to deal with the reality of life in 2022, the "where there's a blame, there's a claim" environment, people who expect compensation for the most minor inconveniences

I'm not saying I'm delighted that we live in a country where coffee cups need warnings on them that the contents might be hot, but we do, and passengers will complain if nobody warned them that the steps might be slippery or that tickets for other TOCs aren't valid - TOCs are dealing with the symptoms of the culture - we need to get these things resolved

1) The safety thing is once per flight

Flights are generally just from A to B though - only one safety announcement required and only one set of announcements when the flight is ending

Trains might have intermediate stations every ten minutes, which means lots more announcements - but I don't know how we get around that - if it's important to tell people boarding at the first station the various calling points and warn them about ticket validity then passengers boarding at other stations would expect that courtesy too

 

[mmh]

Current announcement doing the rounds at Victoria and many stations south of, on every train announcement, that some lifts at east croydon are out of service. East croydon has ramp to the exit anyway, overkill id say.

East Croydon has ramps to one of the exits, the other exit has very high flights of steps and lifts. The ramps to the original exit are steep enough that many people would struggle to use them, particularly in a manual wheelchair.

I assume the overbridge is overly high from being built to accommodate non-existent OHLE which will never exist there. Similar was seen with the ludicrous temporary footbridge at New Cross Gate, while that station was being rebuilt to improve access to platforms which are never used.

 

[Horizon22]

Trains might have intermediate stations every ten minutes, which means lots more announcements - but I don't know how we get around that - if it's important to tell people boarding at the first station the various calling points and warn them about ticket validity then passengers boarding at other stations would expect that courtesy too

Or every 3-4 minutes on metro routes. Several of which might be someone's first station. As you say, not easy to get around.

 

[AM9]

Or every 3-4 minutes on metro routes. Several of which might be someone's first station. As you say, not easy to get around.

Precisely, it was yet another ministerial announcement solely to make the administration look like it is 'down with the travelling voters', yet as usual, not having thought it through. That's why there hasn't been any guidelines and definitely won't be any mandation.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Precisely, it was yet another ministerial announcement solely to make the administration look like it is 'down with the travelling voters', yet as usual, not having thought it through. That's why there hasn't been any guidelines and definitely won't be any mandation.

Give it time, currently they are obtaining survey results from passengers. There was never going to be an immediate cull or guidance as there is no 1 size fits all set of announcements.

 

[nanstallon]

Life continues regardless of other distractions and background noise is an example of issues which do need addressing.
The sad thing is that I could use the train to go to an event this weekend. Reading this forum I can see many, many reasons why I shouldn't and won't. Will the train run? Will it be on time? Is is convenient i.e. runs at a time to suit me or is the station close by? Is it quicker? Will the train be overcrowded? Can I get a seat? How do I get a ticket? What is its validity? How costly is it? Do I feel safe? Because I dislike phones, can I still get a ticket at the station or must it be in advance through the internet? Indeed, is the journey itself likely to be a pleasant experience?
I, like many, will vote with our car keys. It is the overall experience on trains that will get people back, the package, the offering. Until it improves significantly, the railways will haemorrhage money and either the tax payer comes to the rescue or we reduce services even further. Announcements albeit small is symptomatic of the many problems railways have and like everything else I have just mentioned, needs addressing.

This sums it up. I want to see more use of railways, for environmental reasons, and indeed try to use the train as much as possible. But I can understand people thinking, 'sod it, let's jump into the car, less hassle.' Road improvements have made car travel more attractive over the years, and cars are generally more reliable than trains.

 

[AM9]

Give it time, currently they are obtaining survey results from passengers. There was never going to be an immediate cull or guidance as there is no 1 size fits all set of announcements.

I think that whilst the increased use of announcements in the railway environment may irritate some, it doesn't have a significant impact on the decision to travel by rail. If people are asked if anything that they find irritating should be removed they tend to say yes, because it's easier to give the reply that is expected - that's just human nature. I doubt much will change apart from a few token withdrawl of some redundant announcements.

 

[Annetts key]

… and cars are generally more reliable than trains.

This is subjective though. Busy roads, such as motorways can, and do grind to a halt simply due to the volume of traffic. That can double the time it takes to get to your destination.

And then there is ‘rush hour’ traffic…

And sometimes, if there is an accident, or incident where the police decide the road (such as a motorway) has to be closed, you can be stuck for an extended time. I don’t use motorways that often. Yet I’ve experienced this multiple times.

One time it was because an individual was running across all lanes of a motorway where there is a large bridge over a large river. We were stopped for about one hour. So not really any different compared to trains being stopped due to a person on the line.

But this is going rather off topic.

Back on topic, about on train and station announcements. Without asking the people who travel on the trains what they actually think, everything else is pretty much speculation.

For a regular railway traveller, yes the amount of announcements is going to be frustrating and possibly distracting.

But for someone who does not travel very often on the railways, most of the announcements (when correct) are undoubtedly very useful.

Yes, some such as the BTP one are played too often. And some could definitely be revised to shorten them, but keep the message clear.

And the COVID19 ones are likely to be wound down over the coming year.

But I don’t really see much changing for the rest of them.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

But for someone who does not travel very often on the railways, most of the announcements (when correct) are undoubtedly very useful.

Really?

Surely all you need to know when you're getting on a train is where it's going and what time you'll get there and most passengers will find this information out before they set off? Once on the train the only time an announcement is needed would be if the journey is disrupted, in which case the guard can explain what's caused the disruption and give passengers an indication of how soon before it's resolved. There really is no justification for automated announcements on trains at all.

 

[scragend]

I flew back into Manchester from the Netherlands on Sunday evening (should have been Friday afternoon thanks to the storms but that's another story) and caught a train home from the airport. The difference in the number and length of announcements was striking. In the Netherlands you get what you need; brief announcements before each station, occasionally one just after leaving a major station confirming the train you are on, and that's pretty much it. A big difference compared to all the automated waffle on Northern which felt like it went on forever.

Sort of connected, on the flight out from Manchester to Amsterdam earlier in the week there was a significant delay and the KLM pilot came personally to the gate to speak to the passengers over the PA and explain the delay (credit to him for that). Unfortunately he had to keep stopping mid-sentence every time an automated announcement kicked in...

 

[urbophile]

TOCs are dealing with the symptoms of the culture - we need to get these things resolved

TOCs are symptoms of the culture.

cars are generally more reliable than trains.

Cars might be. Roads are not necessarily. In the last couple of years I have been caught up in several motorway snarl-ups for well over an hour; only one train journey with such a delay.

 

[Tio Terry]

Really?

Surely all you need to know when you're getting on a train is where it's going and what time you'll get there and most passengers will find this information out before they set off? Once on the train the only time an announcement is needed would be if the journey is disrupted, in which case the guard can explain what's caused the disruption and give passengers an indication of how soon before it's resolved. There really is no justification for automated announcements on trains at all.

It's fine if you are able bodied with decent eyesight and hearing. Not so great if you have limited eyesight and impaired hearing.

Many announcements are made to help those classed as PRM - which does not mean just physical restrictions. Please consider that when you are saying announcements are not necessary.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Really?

Surely all you need to know when you're getting on a train is where it's going and what time you'll get there and most passengers will find this information out before they set off? Once on the train the only time an announcement is needed would be if the journey is disrupted, in which case the guard can explain what's caused the disruption and give passengers an indication of how soon before it's resolved. There really is no justification for automated announcements on trains at all.

What about excessive gaps in the PTI or short platforms?
Also, common changes at stations are very useful for passengers who are not regular commuters.

I agree most automated announcements should be filled, but saying having none would be better would cause more issues

 

[43096]

Also, common changes at stations are very useful for passengers who are not regular commuters.

How many occasional customers don't have a pre-planned journey though? They will almost certainly have something from t'interweb with it on, so they already know they need to change at Burp Junction for Dunny-on-the-Wold.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

How many occasional customers don't have a pre-planned journey though? They will almost certainly have something from t'interweb with it on, so they already know they need to change at Burp Junction for Dunny-on-the-Wold.

That doesn't mean that they don't forget, or are generally unsure which station to change at. I get asked many times a day where to chance for certain stations, or if this station is where the train to X is.

Announcements are not always for the many, they are often for the few to make traveling by train as easy and enjoyable as possible, not just getting people to work or home again and I think some people forget that.

Currently for us, leisure travel on the WCML is driving huge numbers, not commuters

 

[Annetts key]

Surely all you need to know when you're getting on a train is where it's going and what time you'll get there and most passengers will find this information out before they set off? Once on the train the only time an announcement is needed would be if the journey is disrupted, in which case the guard can explain what's caused the disruption and give passengers an indication of how soon before it's resolved. There really is no justification for automated announcements on trains at all.

So I take it that you’re never had a passenger ask if they are on the right train, or ask what the next stop is, or how many stops until their intended destination. Or other similar related questions then…

 

[Bikeman78]

On Northern, and probably every other TOC too, many times the wrong station is announced, somehow the system goes wrong and isn't corrected - that's probably worse than not announcing the station at all. Imagine a passenger unused to the line, listens for the station name, hears it, get's off and it's one much further down the line/shorter than intended?
Has that happened in real life...and if so how often?? Yes I know that as long as the windows are clean and the station well lit you can see it isn't the right station, but the poor-sighted can't. Also for pax unfamiliar with the route, the preceding stations will be meaningless (so you wouldn't know your stop was "next").

If I were blind I certainly wouldn't trust the automatic PIS. Sometimes it is set up for a service going in the opposite direction!

 

[physics34]

But surely too many announcements must become annoying for the blind

 

[Gareth]

Considering they're likely even more sensitive to audio announcements than the general population, quite possibly.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

So I take it that you’re never had a passenger ask if they are on the right train, or ask what the next stop is, or how many stops until their intended destination. Or other similar related questions then…

Yes, that's the whole point; anyone who is unsure or nervous about their journey has the facility to ask a member of train crew so automated announcements based on questions no one is asking are irrelevant.

Has anyone ever got on a train and thought to themselves "help! I don't know what to do if I see something that doesn't look right" or "please tell me to take my luggage with me otherwise I might leave it on the train"?

 

[alistairlees]

Give it time, currently they are obtaining survey results from passengers. There was never going to be an immediate cull or guidance as there is no 1 size fits all set of announcements.

I do find it funny that there was no surveying of passengers as the quantity of announcements was increased; but that there has to be a survey in order to decrease the number of announcements (presumablt to a quantity not too different from what it was before).

 

[Tio Terry]

Yes, that's the whole point; anyone who is unsure or nervous about their journey has the facility to ask a member of train crew so automated announcements based on questions no one is asking are irrelevant.

Has anyone ever got on a train and thought to themselves "help! I don't know what to do if I see something that doesn't look right" or "please tell me to take my luggage with me otherwise I might leave it on the train"?

Not all trains have readily available train crew - some have no Guard and you can't easily access the driver (especially if you are classed as PRM).

A visit to a Lost Property office would show you that people most certainly do need to be reminded to take their luggage with them!