Trains told to get rid of torrent of 'Tannoy spam'

[johntea]

This is quite topical considering a few recent threads!

Trains told to get rid of torrent of 'Tannoy spam'

Rail chiefs are set to get rid of unnecessary on-board announcements to make journeys more peaceful.

www.bbc.co.uk

If you're a commuter returning to the office after a long period of working from home, you may soon notice a subtle difference on your morning train.
In the next few months, rail chiefs will be getting rid of unnecessary announcements to make journeys quieter.
Examples of so-called "Tannoy spam" include telling passengers to have their tickets ready and, ironically, to keep the noise down.
But the Department for Transport (DfT) said key safety messages would remain.
That probably means a reprieve for the British Transport Police's "See it. Say it. Sorted" announcement, branded "the most annoying slogan of the century".
The DfT said it would be working closely with the Rail Delivery Group and passenger groups such as Transport Focus, as well as train operators, to identify how the "vast number" of announcements could be cut or reduced.
"The review will take place over the course of this year, with redundant messages identified and starting to be removed in the coming months," it added.

 

[MCSHF007]

Hallelujah! Just STFU.
('Shut the Fornicate Up' for the benefit of the "please clarify your abbreviation" brigade in these parts).

 

[seagull]

Stations need to be improved too - by the time you have inclement weather/pushchairs and buggies/allow customers to alight/see it say it sod off/unattended articles removed plus all the train and delay announcements: it's merciless and never-ending.

 

[mde]

But…will it actually achieve anything, or is it merely another one of Grant Shapps' "look over there" attempts to distract from the farce that is the Williams-Shapps plan - or worse, the "Integrated Rail Plan" which he is already trying to defend by means of passing blame to others.

 

[markymark2000]

Stations need to be improved too - by the time you have inclement weather/pushchairs and buggies/allow customers to alight/see it say it sod off/unattended articles removed plus all the train and delay announcements: it's merciless and never-ending.

I think it's gotten worse now. Only in the past year or so I have noticed the 'this station does not have tactile paving' announcement. I know why it exists but it's still annoying as heck.

 

[Horizon22]

I think it's gotten worse now. Only in the past year or so I have noticed the 'this station does not have tactile paving' announcement. I know why it exists but it's still annoying as heck.

Yes. The problem is that, quite often, the answer to dealing with some issue on the railway is "we'll send out an announcement" from multiple different sources and it might be well-meaning but all is done is clog up the station announcements. So you now end up with 8 different types, all of which "must" go out, in addition to usual boarding and/or delay announcements.

 

[mde]

I think it's gotten worse now. Only in the past year or so I have noticed the 'this station does not have tactile paving' announcement. I know why it exists but it's still annoying as heck.

Well, short of Network Rail (and others) committing funding to fix the issue properly, what other solution do station operators have?

A person who needs tactile paving to safely navigate the station has a good chance of not being able to visually sight whether or not tactiles are there - and given a number of incidents (along with a fatality investigated by RAIB), the announcements are a necessary evil.

 

[markymark2000]

Well, short of Network Rail (and others) committing funding to fix the issue properly, what other solution do station operators have?

A person who needs tactile paving to safely navigate the station has a good chance of not being able to visually sight whether or not tactiles are there - and given a number of incidents (along with a fatality investigated by RAIB), the announcements are a necessary evil.

As I say, I understand why it is in place but is gets very annoying. An incident must have happened more recently since the announcements didn't go out before I would say Covid times I had never heard it.

 

[seagull]

The problem with "announcement spam" is that the intended recipient of, let's say, a tactile paving announcement, will have likely switched off anyway from the mindless droning on and on about every other conceivable possible thing, and could easily miss that specific announcement.
In such a litigious age, I'm not sure what the solution is though.

 

[dk1]

About flippin time.

 

[Class360/1]

Finally. It’s not uncommon on a GA Intercity service for the Guard to make 5 really annoying long announcements about catering. I also hope the BTP announcements are reduced.

Also I hope they sur out the station announcers, especially in Anglia, where Greater Anglia removed the clear and loud announcements for an unclear and quieter PA system

 

[306024]

Will be discussed on BBC1 Breakfast at around 08.30.

 

[AM9]

The problem with "announcement spam" is that the intended recipient of, let's say, a tactile paving announcement, will have likely switched off anyway from the mindless droning on and on about every other conceivable possible thing, and could easily miss that specific announcement.
In such a litigious age, I'm not sure what the solution is though.

That's the issue. Safety warnings might be irritating to some but expect them back as soon as there's an incident where someone is injured and cites not being informed of the hazard as a contributory factor.

 

[edwin_m]

Well, short of Network Rail (and others) committing funding to fix the issue properly, what other solution do station operators have?

A person who needs tactile paving to safely navigate the station has a good chance of not being able to visually sight whether or not tactiles are there - and given a number of incidents (along with a fatality investigated by RAIB), the announcements are a necessary evil.

As I say, I understand why it is in place but is gets very annoying. An incident must have happened more recently since the announcements didn't go out before I would say Covid times I had never heard it.

Indeed so. https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/report-01-slash-2021-person-struck-by-a-train-at-eden-park-station

At around 19:05 hrs on Wednesday 26 February 2020, a passenger train struck and fatally injured a person who had just fallen from platform 1 of Eden Park station.

The person, who had impaired vision, moved near to, and fell from, the platform edge probably because his visual impairment meant he was unaware that he was close to this edge. The platform edge was not fitted with markings intended to assist visually impaired people.

ORR are getting tough on this.

 

[jopsuk]

looking forward to this being completely not acted upon.
Maybe they'll add announcements apologising for all the announcements

 

[Taunton]

As well as verbal announcements, can departure indicators be addressed as well.

The DLR platform indicators showing the next several trains were hijacked a while ago by overlaying all the subsequent train information by a completely obvious "TRAIN APPROACHING" warning message, through to when it stops at the platform. So with a series of overlapping services, if you want to see whether a connection is right behind, or not, that has now disappeared at every station you stop at.

 

[chris_in_salop]

That's the issue. Safety warnings might be irritating to some but expect them back as soon as there's an incident where someone is injured and cites not being informed of the hazard as a contributory factor.

Ambulance-chasing lawyers are often cited as a reason for tannoy spam. But what recent cases are there?

e.g. of a passenger injury through not 'minding the gap', where they claim that they were not warned.

(I'm not disputing what you say BTW, as I think the reasoning is very feasible, given wider social trends. But I'm just curious.)

 

[markymark2000]

The platform edge was not fitted with markings intended to assist visually impaired people.

markings implies a line marking or something like that rather than tactile paving.


Could Network Rail not just get loads of the adhisive tactile paving. Adhisive tactile paving wouldn't involve any major works or closure either. It's been installed on many platforms already so why not a quick, mass roll out. Get everywhere done and then we have no need for the announcements.

 

[The exile]

What happens if someone arrives just after a tactile paving announcement and falls off the platform before the next one? Is the railway still liable? Fully accept the rationale where some platforms / bits of platforms at a station have it but others do not, but that should never be allowed to happen - except briefly during the installation works.

 

[mike57]

Its been aired before on threads on here. The torrent of rubbish and repititions means that passenger 'switch off' and potentially important messages are then lost, maybe a change to calling pattern or more importantly still a genuine safety related message. To my way of thinking the only things which should be the subject of announcements are messages relating to the current journey, e.g. next calling point, destination, stations served, catering, but short and sweet, and any thing else which needs to be conveyed to passengers immediately. Everything else, like rain is wet, see it say it etc, should be relegated to notices or displays, but not overwriting journey information, a seperate display. To cater for those with impaired vision a bluetooth or a hearing loop could be provided to read out the message to the travellers personal device. Same applies to platforms, everything else goes on notices or displays away from train information.

In my industry when designing systems for operator interface there are strict guidlines on how much information should be presented at a time, and in the event of an alarm 'flood' only the critical stuff is presented.

Once we have culled all the rubbish I would then like all message to start with a 'bing bong' type intro which gives those of who are hard of hearing, and those where English isnt their first language time to 'tune in' mentally. When travelling in France the intro gives me time to concentrate as I have dual issues, deafness and my French is probably 'schoolboy' level, and its a big help

 

[Fokx]

My only gripe when it comes to tannoy announcements is the over-use of platform announcements at major stations that usually play around 5-10 minutes before departure and around 3 minutes before departure listing every calling point and/or request stop. Additionally I don’t see much point in announcements stating that catering and first class are available but I do welcome announcements such as “The front train only on Platform X for the XX.XX to XXXXXXXX” along with alterations.

I’d much rather have some of the usual safety announcements playing.
I’m sure if you asked the bulk of the population, they would be able to recall the ‘See it, say it, sorted’ message but would be unable to recall the actual number to text the BTP when and if they needed it most.

 

[74A]

GwR turbos announce at every station stop Do not board and leave the train as the doors are closing.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

"...and remember to take all your personal belongings with you when leaving the train" goes right back to the start of on-train PIS with BR (Mk2 stock, Pullmans?).
On its own it means "we have a fancy new PR system to use but have nothing useful to say".

"...the doors will not be unlocked until the train has come to a complete stand in the station" dates from when BR intercity services (Mk3 stock) had secondary locks fitted, and is superfluous now they all have power doors.

A lot can be done to reduce the verbiage and frequency of announcements, even if they are to be retained.
In Wales you are likely to get them twice, of course, though on-train announcements in Welsh are only just coming in.
Merseyrail gets it right, in my opinion - just destination, next stop, lift information at the start of the tunnel section, and a security announcement at key stations.
With much greater information on the PIS screens in new stock (eg Northern, TPE), there is a much reduced need for voice announcements.

Shapps has started a review - it isn't the first time TOCs have been encouraged to reduce announcements, but nothing has changed so far.
In fact "See it. Say it. Sorted", which is unlikely to go, has made it worse.

 

[stuu]

Can they please get rid of the "please take care on the stairs" announcements. I don't see who those can possibly benefit, apart from insurers

 

[yorksrob]

But they do need to make sure that they announce regularly if they've scrapped seat reservations.

 

[TheWalrus]

Yes please! I don’t need to be told “This is an Avanti West Coast service to London Euston” 5 times before leaving Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[robbeech]

But they do need to make sure that they announce regularly if they've scrapped seat reservations.

On LNER this would be on a constant loop.

 

[tomwills98]

With much greater information on the PIS screens in new stock (eg Northern, TPE), there is a much reduced need for voice announcements.

So how do people with sight impairments manage?

Yes, there's a lot of spam on the tannoy, but some of it is vital information for people who are unable to read the info screens.

 

[yorksrob]

On LNER this would be on a constant loop.

They need to tell Great Western !

 

[SLC001]

My father had hearing difficulties and in fact was adamant that he was not deaf as he had some hearing capability. However, he suffered from hyperacusis which is not uncommon but rarely understood. It is a very painful and distressing condition whereby background noise is amplified to the extent that it is physically hurtful and very, very distressing. I doubt anyone really understands how awful it must be and I can only relate to it when a very noisy motor bike roars down the road and the pitch and frequency irritates you. Then multiply that by 100. Background noise is the big issue and in fact my father found hospital wards unpleasant (ideally he needed a side ward but no chance) and he he was eventually found some headphones but only when I complained. Hospital awareness of this condition is pitifully low even though all hospitals are obliged to assess a patient's hearing difficulties and manage them accordingly.
In hospital waiting rooms, televisions have been provided yet Homes under the Hammer distressed my father beyond belief and more seriously made it harder for me to discuss with his the points to discuss at his appointment. Social events sadly were also distressing and in many cases my father was isolated from society such as parties because of his condition.
Announcements especially in confined spaces, cause some people distress - real physical and mental distress. I would like to know if the rail company have considered the impact of these repetitive announcements on those with hyperacusis? I will be they haven't. They should and must.
It must be a problem for TOCs because the partially sighted rely on sound but a step forward would be to absolutely limit the announcements to real, essential information.