Tram-Bus/Rubber tyred Trams

[anthony263]

Seen this article on the internet this afternoon along with a photo on Flickr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus

I wonder if there might be a option to develop such systems in the uk especially if they offer a tram-like experience without the need to install running rails just overhead wiring like a conventional trolleybus

One area where I believe such a system could be considered is in Swansea using the exisitng infrastructure that was installed for the Swansea Metro.

The existing streetlites are ok but they certainly dont fool a lot of people with their tramlike front end and they are expensive to operate I have been told. Certainly if they used the vehicles like the one shown in the photographs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42537798@N02/7933066376/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrispics/5387602504/

These vehicles are fitted with cabs at either end so will be easier to turn around at say Oystermouth/Mumbles and look very much like a tram and run on electric so will be a quiet like a tram.

Vehicles on one of the existing networks can be driven like a conventional bus such as to or from the depot

 

[gordonthemoron]

the top link is just a guided busway, like in Leeds & Cambridgeshire. Venice Mestre has what appears at first glance to be a tram with rubber wheels and overhead wires. It is guided via a slot in the road

 

[starrymarkb]

The GLT (Caen - 2nd link) has been troublesome, it's also been found that the buses wear down the road surface creating two groves. It was also very much over budget. They are going to replace it with proper light rail...

 

[transmanche]

the top link is just a guided busway, like in Leeds & Cambridgeshire. Venice Mestre has what appears at first glance to be a tram with rubber wheels and overhead wires. It is guided via a slot in the road

I note in the photos that the vehicles use a pantograph with a single wire (as opposed to a trolley with two wires). So, presumably the centre 'guide rail/slot' is also used for current return?

 

[WatcherZero]

Rubber tyres are gone through at a rather alarming rate on rail vehicles. There is a tramway that uses rubber running wheels but its next door to the Michelin tyre factory and the reasons the locals chose that design should be quite obvious. Though its been a decade since I last read about it so they may have changed the design.

 

[MK Tom]

Seen this article on the internet this afternoon along with a photo on Flickr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus

I wonder if there might be a option to develop such systems in the uk especially if they offer a tram-like experience without the need to install running rails just overhead wiring like a conventional trolleybus

One area where I believe such a system could be considered is in Swansea using the exisitng infrastructure that was installed for the Swansea Metro.

The existing streetlites are ok but they certainly dont fool a lot of people with their tramlike front end and they are expensive to operate I have been told. Certainly if they used the vehicles like the one shown in the photographs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42537798@N02/7933066376/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrispics/5387602504/

These vehicles are fitted with cabs at either end so will be easier to turn around at say Oystermouth/Mumbles and look very much like a tram and run on electric so will be a quiet like a tram.

Vehicles on one of the existing networks can be driven like a conventional bus such as to or from the depot

The tram-like buses you mean when you mention Streetlites are really the FTR. The Streetlite is just a bus and it knows it. The FTR is the articulated driver-separated vehicle found on the Swansea Metro.

We have guided busways in Leeds, Bradford, Cambridge, Ipswich, Luton (almost) and Crawley, and unguided systems in Swansea, Southsea and a few other places.

The 'rubber tyred tram' concept principally refers to two systems, Bombardier's now discontinued 'GRT' which operates in Nancy and Caen, and the Translohr system found in Venice, parts of Paris, Clermont-Ferrand and several other places. That system does have lower costs than normal trams and could perhaps apply to some British cities, but it limits you to buying from a single supplier which would present major issues if it were discontinued (as has happened for Nancy and Caen, the latter in fact is to close for replacement with a normal tramway).

Incidentally your first picture is the GRT which only has a cab at one end. (as in fact many European trams do)

 

[edwin_m]

Wikipedia on this topic seems to be a pretty fair assessment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Guided_Light_Transit

It mentions higher running costs than a comparable tramway. I believe (though I can't quote a reference) that this is partly down to significantly higher power consumption because the rubber tyre is less efficient than a steel wheel. Factors such as the smaller maximum vehicle size mean that rubber-tyre vehicles will be more appropriate on networks with lower passenger numbers.

 

[anthony263]

The tram-like buses you mean when you mention Streetlites are really the FTR. The Streetlite is just a bus and it knows it. The FTR is the articulated driver-separated vehicle found on the Swansea Metro.

We have guided busways in Leeds, Bradford, Cambridge, Ipswich, Luton (almost) and Crawley, and unguided systems in Swansea, Southsea and a few other places.

The 'rubber tyred tram' concept principally refers to two systems, Bombardier's now discontinued 'GRT' which operates in Nancy and Caen, and the Translohr system found in Venice, parts of Paris, Clermont-Ferrand and several other places. That system does have lower costs than normal trams and could perhaps apply to some British cities, but it limits you to buying from a single supplier which would present major issues if it were discontinued (as has happened for Nancy and Caen, the latter in fact is to close for replacement with a normal tramway).

Incidentally your first picture is the GRT which only has a cab at one end. (as in fact many European trams do)

You are correct I meant the FTR's dont why I got it into my head they were called streetlite's (Thats an completely different vehicle) :roll:

I was thinking of the Translohr system as being a cheaper system to install than a conventional tramway since it might be easier to attract funding

As for the smaller vehicle size with Swansea that might be ok depending on the service frequency with perhaps the route being converted to a standard tramway with larger trams at a later time once demand on the routes have been built up.

 

[starrymarkb]

Rubber tyres are gone through at a rather alarming rate on rail vehicles. There is a tramway that uses rubber running wheels but its next door to the Michelin tyre factory and the reasons the locals chose that design should be quite obvious. Though its been a decade since I last read about it so they may have changed the design.

Most French metros are rubber tyred, there are two systems, Michelin's is used in Paris & Lyon and the competing Matra/Siemens system in Lille, Rennes & Toulouse

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes but most Metros wernt by choice, they had to use rubber tyres because the gradients were too steep for steel wheels and later another overhead line switched for noise reduction. Doesnt invalidate that they have higher running costs than steel wheels and that the trams decision to use rubber was political because they would be supplied by the local factory.

 

[MK Tom]

The issue of being tied down to one manufacturer is the major drawback of Translohr. If the company goes bust, all the lines that use it are screwed. The track design is patented (or copyrighted or trademarked or something like that) so other manufacturers can't develop vehicles for it. This was the issue back when there were two competing systems. As I've said one of those has already gone out of production leaving one city stranded with no expansion prospects and the other spending hundreds of millions of euros pulling the system out and replacing it with a normal tram.