Tram driver criticised for leaving toddler stranded at stop

[thenorthern]

I have just seen this news story on East Midlands Today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-34137609

Nottingham tram firm apologises after toddler is left stranded

A tram company has apologised after a toddler was left stranded at a stop when the doors closed before her parents could get off.

Three-year-old, Maisie Phillips, had been taking her first trip on Nottingham's new tram line to Clifton with her parents on Tuesday evening.

Her father Anthony Phillips said he tried opening the doors but the driver refused to stop "for safety reasons".

Nottingham Express Transit (NET) said "lessons had been learnt" from it.

Mr Phillips said he got off at the next stop and ran half-a-mile back to Maisie, who was being looked after by another passenger.

"I'm glad Maisie didn't go wandering off anywhere, anything could have happened to her," he said.

"I was shouting to the driver but she said we had to wait until the next stop.

"I understand these are new trams but the doors closed stupidly quickly. If someone was disabled or elderly they wouldn't have got out quick enough."

Maisie had been spotted by Angela Wilkinson who had got off at the same stop.
She said: "I noticed she was on her own and was running away shouting 'mummy', 'daddy'. I just couldn't leave her.

"She was absolutely devastated. It was awful."

An NET representative apologised and said while the driver had closed the doors too quickly, she was "unable to stop once the tram was moving for safety reasons".

Their statement added that "lessons had been learnt" and drivers have since been reminded to look out for passengers who might need extra time or assistance getting on and off the trams.

I am not sure what to make of it as its very scary for parents but at the same time NET has strict safety regulations that it must stick to.

I know that this happened on light rail but I was wondering what are the regulations in place when similar things happen on the mainline?

 

[Camden]

Have seen it happen on the tube, open mouthed mum staring pointing at the kid still on the train as it started to move off. Crowded platform and tube, very easy to get separated. Luckily it only moved a short distance and released the doors as the driver must have seen the woman pointing in horror.

 

[Busaholic]

I have just seen this news story on East Midlands Today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-34137609

I am not sure what to make of it as its very scary for parents but at the same time NET has strict safety regulations that it must stick to.

I know that this happened on light rail but I was wondering what are the regulations in place when similar things happen on the mainline?

What if that other passenger hadn't been there to look after the child, or if the next stop had been a mile or two further on? I am sure that tram could have been brought back to the original stop without endangering safety, if the driver really did realise what had happened so quickly after the event.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Didn't something very similar happen in Edinburgh a few months ago?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Didn't something very similar happen in Edinburgh a few months ago?

Yes, it certainly did... I remember most distinctly the news article

 

[Robertj21a]

What if that other passenger hadn't been there to look after the child, or if the next stop had been a mile or two further on? I am sure that tram could have been brought back to the original stop without endangering safety, if the driver really did realise what had happened so quickly after the event.

I would hope that the tram itself wouldn't have been 'brought back to the original stop' as that would have been extremely dangerous. A more practical solution, if it were to ever happen again, would be to simply open a door and allow the parent/other to run back.

 

[AM9]

I would hope that the tram itself wouldn't have been 'brought back to the original stop' as that would have been extremely dangerous. A more practical solution, if it were to ever happen again, would be to simply open a door and allow the parent/other to run back.

Don't trams have emergency stop facilities like a passcom or a door release?

 

[Clip]

So lets get this straight - a 3 year old child managed to get off a tram on their own without their parents in sight and the doors just shut. In 10 seconds and not one parent had a hold of their bairn and its the tram drivers fault?

How long is too quickly? How long does it take the tram doors to open? How long does it take to close? are they button operated or do they all open like the Croydon tram? And no one else was getting on or off in that time that the driver just shut them right away?

Come on there has to be more to it than incompetence by the driver here.

at least the pic of the child looks sufficiently grumpy to get every talking about the nasty tram driver

 

[firespire]

Grandfather's comments on Facebook -
https://www.facebook.com/MinorityReport/posts/1051145678231748

Let this be a warning to users of the new tram system...
Once started, they won't stop, not even if your 3 year old daughter is left, stranded, on her own at the tram stop.
My son, on the tram with his daughter. Tram stops, they press to open the door. He's holding his daughters hand, she steps off the tram. The door closes on their hands, son has to let go otherwise she would have been dragged along.
He presses to open the door, screams down the tram at the driver, all the other people on the tram screaming at the driver - what does the driver say?
"I can't stop, you'll have to wait until the next stop"
Son is pleading with her to stop the tram, as are all the other people. But no, she carries on to the next stop about 3/4 of a mile away!!
Son runs all the way back to find his daughter holding hands with a stranger, an old lady who'd been at the stop and saw what had happened.
They're all back and ok, but they're all shaken up.
Disgraceful...

 

[infobleep]

Grandfather's comments on Facebook -
https://www.facebook.com/MinorityReport/posts/1051145678231748

So lets get this straight - a 3 year old child managed to get off a tram on their own without their parents in sight and the doors just shut. In 10 seconds and not one parent had a hold of their bairn and its the tram drivers fault?

How long is too quickly? How long does it take the tram doors to open? How long does it take to close? are they button operated or do they all open like the Croydon tram? And no one else was getting on or off in that time that the driver just shut them right away?

Come on there has to be more to it than incompetence by the driver here.

at least the pic of the child looks sufficiently grumpy to get every talking about the nasty tram driver

Are you talking about the same report because what the grandfather says seems to be totally different to what your saying happened?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have seen it happen on the tube, open mouthed mum staring pointing at the kid still on the train as it started to move off. Crowded platform and tube, very easy to get separated. Luckily it only moved a short distance and released the doors as the driver must have seen the woman pointing in horror.

Happens a lot on the Tube. Usually people by the doors grab them before they close fully, then the driver doesn't get interlock and reopens briefly. It is normally because of people trying to board trains that are about to depart, though - when I take the Scouts on the Tube I will tend to hang back and deliberately miss trains so it doesn't happen (though I do always brief them on what to do if it does - if you're on the train and we're not, get off at the next stop and wait on the platform, if we're on the train and you're not, wait there; we will always come back for you).

 

[Clip]

Are you talking about the same report because what the grandfather says seems to be totally different to what your saying happened?

No I was asking questions based on the story - I never said what did happen - the facebook page I cannot access and was posted after I had asked some questions.

Ones that haven't been answered either. You can post the Grandfathers pages if you would like me to comment on that also - was he there too? so that's 3 people that didn't get off the tram with the bairn then.


Soiund advice Neil and I see large groups hang back all the time if a station is busy on the tube. Next one is never far away.

 

[TheEscapist_]

This happened to me at a SR station once when I was younger. It is horrible for the child and the parents. Although I think it's best not to go blaming each other and just think what could be done differently. The parents could hold their child's hand as they alight, and the driver could it reopened the doors. I'm a dispatcher and if something like that happened to me then I would get the doors reopened.

 

[Domh245]

For Clip's benefit, here is the story from facebook:

Let this be a warning to users of the new tram system...
Once started, they won't stop, not even if your 3 year old daughter is left, stranded, on her own at the tram stop.
My son, on the tram with his daughter. Tram stops, they press to open the door. He's holding his daughters hand, she steps off the tram. The door closes on their hands, son has to let go otherwise she would have been dragged along.
He presses to open the door, screams down the tram at the driver, all the other people on the tram screaming at the driver - what does the driver say?
"I can't stop, you'll have to wait until the next stop"
Son is pleading with her to stop the tram, as are all the other people. But no, she carries on to the next stop about 3/4 of a mile away!!
Son runs all the way back to find his daughter holding hands with a stranger, an old lady who'd been at the stop and saw what had happened.
They're all back and ok, but they're all shaken up.
Disgraceful...

And my thoughts. Sometimes tram drivers seem awfully keen to get away from a stop quite quickly, possibly for a number of reasons - late running, traffic build up, PNB, etc. Yesterday morning, the driver on my croydon tram seemed awfully keen to get away quickly from stops to the extent that the door alarms would start going, and the doors would start closing with people still boarding from the platform (visibly!). At one stop, despite a queue of people waiting outside the tram to board (because a woman with a pram was disembarking) the doors start to close (onto the pram), open, close again (onto the pram), before the driver noticed and rereleased the doors. These things happen, but they shouldn't.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So lets get this straight - a 3 year old child managed to get off a tram on their own without their parents in sight and the doors just shut. In 10 seconds and not one parent had a hold of their bairn and its the tram drivers fault?

It's very easy when a driver is in a hurry. There are any number of reasons why a parent might need to either leave a child on the tram and disembark first, or put a child on the platform and then disembark afterwards; using a buggy with another child in it would be one good example of this.

I've had a similar example with a Stagecoach Newcastle bus driver; two of us getting on the bus, I get on first and driver slams the door shut as the second one tries to get on.

If people were still getting on and off then yeah, it's the driver's fault. End of story. As Domh245 says, it happens all the time on Croydon Tramlink, and I've seen it happen on Metrolink before too.

 

[Clip]

Thanks for that. Seems awfully quick I must - that's about 5 seconds top for the girl to get off say, which leads me to ask another question - do these tram doors not have object sensors in them? Also wouldn't his first reaction be to try and force the doors with his hand still trapped?

It's very easy when a driver is in a hurry. There are any number of reasons why a parent might need to either leave a child on the tram and disembark first, or put a child on the platform and then disembark afterwards; using a buggy with another child in it would be one good example of this.

.

I get all that but surely one of the parents would've been in charge of the pram when the dads in charge of the bairn?

 

[edwin_m]

There is always the risk of this happening, for example if one parent is in charge of several children, can't keep hold of all of them and one decides to run off. If it happened to me I think by instinct I'd put an arm or foot in the door, but then again there have been incidents on Tyne and Wear and TPE where the interlock has been obtained despite this happening. I imagine the correct response if the parent is inside is to pull the emergency handle which is just inside each door, and if the parent is outside to shout and bang the doors in the hope the driver stops the tram or someone inside pulls the handle.

Potentially more of a problem on a long train where it is more likely that the driver or guard's view is blocked by other people on the platform.

 

[thenorthern]

Just seen on the Lunchtime edition of East Midlands Today that Nottingham Express Transit has put up posters to warn drivers to be extra vigilant about passengers left on the platform.

 

[Tetchytyke]

do these tram doors not have object sensors in them? Also wouldn't his first reaction be to try and force the doors with his hand still trapped?

There have been repeated problems on the Tyne and Wear Metro where the driver has got interlock despite people being trapped in the doors; one woman was dragged the length of a platform not so very long ago. As a result DB Regio are now prosecuting anyone who obstructs the doors, and there are prominent signs threatening a "£1000 fine".

I don't imagine the interlock on a tram would be much different.

I get all that but surely one of the parents would've been in charge of the pram when the dads in charge of the bairn?

Possibly. But these things happen.

I don't blame the driver, but equally I don't see how it is the passenger's fault.

 

[455driver]

I rest my case Yorkie!

Nobody was there but you are all taking the written word (from the aggrieved party) including one who wasn't even there as if all the relevant facts have been posted!

I wonder if the relevant CCTV will ever get into the public domain so we can see exactly what happened, but I suppose they wouldn't be allowed to even if the parents were at fault (yoomun roites etc)!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I rest my case Yorkie!

Nobody was there but you are all taking the written word (from the aggrieved party) including one who wasn't even there as if all the relevant facts have been posted!

If the tram driver had done nothing wrong I'd have expected NET to either a) say so or b) issue some sort of waffly corporate "apology" that means the same thing.

As I said, it's one of those things.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There have been repeated problems on the Tyne and Wear Metro where the driver has got interlock despite people being trapped in the doors; one woman was dragged the length of a platform not so very long ago. As a result DB Regio are now prosecuting anyone who obstructs the doors, and there are prominent signs threatening a "£1000 fine".

Rather than, say, fixing the technical problem? Have Merseyrail's consultants been visiting? That is in my view utterly excessive, and does not solve the real safety issue, which is of inadvertent obstruction.

 

[Clip]

There have been repeated problems on the Tyne and Wear Metro where the driver has got interlock despite people being trapped in the doors; one woman was dragged the length of a platform not so very long ago. As a result DB Regio are now prosecuting anyone who obstructs the doors, and there are prominent signs threatening a "£1000 fine".

I don't imagine the interlock on a tram would be much different.

So does it or not? Just because the 30 year old metro trains don't work very well doesn't mean the NET don't - you cant compare different systems and vehicles unless you think you drive a Ferrari instead of your corsa?

I rest my case Yorkie!

Nobody was there but you are all taking the written word (from the aggrieved party) including one who wasn't even there as if all the relevant facts have been posted!

I wonder if the relevant CCTV will ever get into the public domain so we can see exactly what happened, but I suppose they wouldn't be allowed to even if the parents were at fault (yoomun roites etc)!

Of course not - what the family say is gospel and NET should be ashamed of themselves not the family for letting their bairn get left behind.

 

[spinba11]

I was on one of the new trams that had broken down at a stop due to a door not being able to close (the door looked like it was closed but something wasn't right with it and it was taken out of service) so I'm guessing that there is a interlock on the doors (I think it's required to pass some H&S test), on the old trams if a door is obstructed the reopen all the way, on the new trams they only open a bit the try to close,

 

[507 001]

At the end of the day, the doors don't close instantly. There is something called a hustle alarm that goes off first.

I would say these people tried to alight once the door tones started.