Tramways: Which towns and cities would benefit most?

[4-SUB 4732]

A simple one, surely?

Nottingham, Blackpool, Edinburgh, Manchester, Sheffield and Croydon have them. Some are extensive, some are not. Are there any logical extensions to existing ones, aborted plans that should come back or towns and cities that would benefit?

Conversion of busways might be a factor as well as the routes are already ‘there’?

 

[randyrippley]

Blackpool is an obvious one - extend the tram along Layton Rd toward Poulton, then link it into the Fleetwood line via Thornton

Lancaster-Morecambe-Heysham needs converting into lightweight tram-trains with a much enlarged number of stops in Morecambe.

 

[anthony263]

Bristol and bath

 

[davetheguard]

Leeds, Leeds, Leeds!

Which must surely be one of the biggest places in Britain, if not the whole of Europe without some sort of tram system or metro/underground railway.

 

[darloscott]

Leeds being the obvious one in my mind, but also Newcastle/Gateshead should have some form of tram to complement the Metro system particularly linking to the Metrocentre shopping complex.

 

[Edders23]

London , would be much cheaper than crossrail 2

I'm told Bristol can be a very congested city so scope there maybe to link the Historic docks area to other parts of the city with trams running alongside the quays or river

Leicester could do with something to link University,railway station across to St Margarets possibly and then out a few miles through the suburbs

 

[Bletchleyite]

Both Oxford and Cambridge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Blackpool is an obvious one - extend the tram along Layton Rd toward Poulton, then link it into the Fleetwood line via Thornton

I'd just convert the Blackpool South branch to tram, adding stops on all Blackpool North services at Kirkham to connect.

 

[HSTEd]

Well if we look at the example of Aubagne, every town above 45,000 might have a short tramway.

Ofcourse if tram trains take off, that could revolutionise rail transport more generally.

 

[Ianno87]

Cambridge, if a palatable way of getting it though the city centre can be found.

 

[PeterC]

Trams worked i

Cambridge, if a palatable way of getting it though the city centre can be found.

The trouble is that because they worked in locations with railway alignments suitable for conversion and limited street running some people will assume that they will work in every other town with a similar population but without those characteristics.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The trouble is that because they worked in locations with railway alignments suitable for conversion and limited street running some people will assume that they will work in every other town with a similar population but without those characteristics.

Cambridge has at least one fairly obvious case for doing this, does it not?

 

[AlastairFraser]

Reading(a bit biased here) and Glasgow, to replace the busy bus routes.

 

[Ianno87]

Trams worked i

The trouble is that because they worked in locations with railway alignments suitable for conversion and limited street running some people will assume that they will work in every other town with a similar population but without those characteristics.

Cambridge is getting to the point where its level of road congestion to access growing employment centres is approaching something like Nottingham pre-NET.

Cambridge also has plenty of defunct railway corridors (St Ives - if busway is converted Mildenhall, Haverhill and Varsity, for example), that can align to areaa of housing development.

 

[Journeyman]

I'm glad Edinburgh is pressing ahead with the Leith extension. I hope they go further and build the Granton loop and other possible extensions.

 

[tasky]

Brighton and Hove (and Portslade and Shoreham)

- Certainly a line replacing the 25 bus from the Old Steine down Lewes Road out to the universities at Falmer
- A line out to Portslade as well probably a good idea, possibly further - and in the east to the Marina and Royal Sussex Hospital
- Woodingdean via Elm Grove to the station and Preston Park to somewhere like Hollingbury
- Possibly a branch on the latter line serving Hangleton

Existing bus routes below. Mostly a case of turning the main corridors into trams

 

[Chester1]

I'd just convert the Blackpool South branch to tram, adding stops on all Blackpool North services at Kirkham to connect.

I think that is more likely than Poulton. There has been a study on converting the line, proposing a range of options (Sintropher, October 2015). There where options for having two single tracks for sections of the route. Battery operation might change the economics of the conversion. All proposals involved maintaining services between Lytham St Annes station and Preston including tram trains from Preston to Blackpool. My preferred option (3) is cutting back the heavy rail line Lytham St Annes Station allowing the frequency to be doubled without any heavy rail investment. The tram would be extended south connecting at Squires Gate, double track to Lytham St Annes and single track parallel to the heavy rail line terminating near Saltcotes.

 

[tasky]

Brighton and Hove (and Portslade and Shoreham)

- Certainly a line replacing the 25 bus from the Old Steine down Lewes Road out to the universities at Falmer
- A line out to Portslade as well probably a good idea, possibly further - and in the east to the Marina and Royal Sussex Hospital
- Woodingdean via Elm Grove to the station and Preston Park to somewhere like Hollingbury
- Possibly a branch on the latter line serving Hangleton

Existing bus routes below. Mostly a case of turning the main corridors into trams

View attachment 65500

Something along these lines:

 

[Chester1]

The success of light rail in Manchester and Croydon has been partly due to mixing converting heavyrail and on street sections to balance speed and location of stops. Pure street running is not any faster than a decent priority bus system.

 

[edwin_m]

The success of light rail in Manchester and Croydon has been partly due to mixing converting heavyrail and on street sections to balance speed and location of stops. Pure street running is not any faster than a decent priority bus system.

Indeed. You only take a tramway on-street to get to somewhere important that it can't get to any other way, and even then you do whatever you can to keep other traffic out of the tram lane. Street trams would give a bit more capacity than bus priority due to larger vehicles, but that isn't really needed except in the biggest cities, and if it's slow then the capacity probably won't be used anyway.

The problem with Cambridge is that none of the disused rail alignments gets anywhere near the centre, which is probably where most people still want to go even though many of the jobs are in the suburbs, and where suburban routes need to connect to provide journeys from anywhere to anywhere else. In the centre the streets are barely wide enough for a minibus and clogged with thousands of bicycles. Central Cambridge is one place where rapid transit really needs to be underground.

 

[randyrippley]

Indeed. You only take a tramway on-street to get to somewhere important that it can't get to any other way, and even then you do whatever you can to keep other traffic out of the tram lane. Street trams would give a bit more capacity than bus priority due to larger vehicles, but that isn't really needed except in the biggest cities, and if it's slow then the capacity probably won't be used anyway.

The problem with Cambridge is that none of the disused rail alignments gets anywhere near the centre, which is probably where most people still want to go even though many of the jobs are in the suburbs, and where suburban routes need to connect to provide journeys from anywhere to anywhere else. In the centre the streets are barely wide enough for a minibus and clogged with thousands of bicycles. Central Cambridge is one place where rapid transit really needs to be underground.

Tunneling in Cambridge would be a problem: soft drained fenland with a load of ricketty old buildings.
Cambridge needs an overhead monorail

 

[HSTEd]

You should be able to manage something like a VAL type mini metro. They are nice and compact thanks to the short headways.
Although I imagine a lot of people around here object to the very idea of a rubber tyre metro.

 

[Ianno87]

Tunneling in Cambridge would be a problem: soft drained fenland with a load of ricketty old buildings.
Cambridge needs an overhead monorail

According to Wikipedia (I know, I know...), Cambridge itself is on Chalk Marl....exactly what the Channel Tunnel was built through.

 

[edwin_m]

Tunneling in Cambridge would be a problem: soft drained fenland with a load of ricketty old buildings.
Cambridge needs an overhead monorail

An overhead monorail needs airspace to run through and ground space to plant the supports. In the core of Cambridge between the Market Square and Northampton Street the only space is those same medieval streets that can't fit a tram or even a large bus. They are probably too narrow and crooked to accommodate a monorail (their turning radius is pretty poor) and busy enough already without numerous supports obstructing the way at ground level. This is also a historic city centre and monorail cars blocking the light, spoiling the classic views and passing colleges at first floor level just aren't going to happen.

 

[Howardh]

Last week I went to Fleetwood - getting off the train at Poulton-Le-Fylde (lovely station + tea room!) and then walking 10 mins (could have caught a connecting bus) to the main Blackpool - Fleetwood bus; and in doing so crossed over the old railway. What a boost it would be if that were a tramway and one could get to Fleetwood on rail and missing Blackpool out.

As an aside, the tram back from Fleetwood gained about 200 schoolkids further down the line, what a lovely way for them to commute to school - a tram!! Pity it's not the older trams now, but hey, way to go!! **NB very well behaved too. Noisy....but well behaved!**

Top tip, the all-day adult tram/bus ticket for Blackpool/Fleetwood/Lytham etc - get it off the driver (conductor if tram).

Next trip must be to do the heritage tram ride.

As for my manor, Bolton has rail links to Manchester but we could do with a tram line connecting the west of the town (Hospital/Farnworth/Walkden) possibly using some of the old disuesd line. Although more likely would be a guided busway and connect with the "V" line around Walkden/Worsley. But really they need to go to the airport as well.

 

[higthomas]

The success of light rail in Manchester and Croydon has been partly due to mixing converting heavyrail and on street sections to balance speed and location of stops. Pure street running is not any faster than a decent priority bus system.

Whilst this is true, I think it misses two of the chief benefits of trams: permanence and sexiness.

1) Permanence. Trams in these days aren't just going to change route with no notice, or be cut, or have their frequency reduced to once a day. This makes people more likely to base living decisions etc on them and so actually use them.
2) Sexiness.
2a) People who wouldn't think about using a bus will use a tram.
2b) Politicians and local authorities who wouldn't invest in improving bus infrastructure will in trams because they're sexy.

 

[Howardh]

Whilst this is true, I think it misses two of the chief benefits of trams: permanence and sexiness.
2) Sexiness.
2b) Politicians and local authorities who wouldn't invest in improving bus infrastructure will in trams because they're sexy.

Have you seen the colour of Manchester's trams?? Yucky doesn't even cover it!!

 

[Ianno87]

Have you seen the colour of Manchester's trams?? Yucky doesn't even cover it!!

I love the Yellow!

 

[trainmania100]

Get the buses off Western road between Churchill square and palmeira square. So many buses it's so dangerous people are always getting run over . Make a tramway between palmeira square Hove and Brighton Western road with bus links from pizza hut

 

[Welly]

Dare I say that battery powered buses would be a LOT easier to introduce to cities than new trams? No need to dig up roads and loads of flexibilty to change routes as time goes on! Maybe put up trolley wires on some parts for charging batteries en route? You get the lack of air and noise pollution in the streets as well. I think Cambridge will benefit greatly if the guided buses are all converted to battery power (and trolley wires put up in the guided sections for battery charging/supplementary power) if only to make the best of Cambridge's unique situation.