Transferring ticket

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neilmc

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A while ago my wife had to go to London on a training course, so her work ordered her a train ticket through whatever arrangements they have (I'm being deliberately vague here!).

In the end she couldn't travel, but another colleague was prepared to go in her place to avoid wasting the cost of the ticket. However, the ticket was overprinted with her name, so I suggested she lend her (trustworthy!) colleague her debit card with, of course, her name embossed in the unlikely event of the train conductor demanding any ID.

The ticket was accepted without question or ID verification but ...

- did anyone - my wife, her colleague or the business - do anything wrong here? If the colleague had been challenged and had no appropriate ID, could she have been forced to buy a new ticket or even prosecuted? Does the printing of a name on the ticket affect its validity, and would there be any difference if it were an anytime return, off-peak return or advance?
 
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LexyBoy

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- did anyone - my wife, her colleague or the business - do anything wrong here?

I would say not - the ticket was purchased by the business for the use of one of their employees. Whether the employee is the same as was originally intended at the time of purchase doesn't matter I think.

Does the printing of a name on the ticket affect its validity, and would there be any difference if it were an anytime return, off-peak return or advance?

Not if it's a standard ticket. Additional T&Cs apply to e-tickets and [email protected] and these do (sometimes) require ID to be carried.
 

najaB

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furlong

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5.1 A Ticket may only be used by the person who bought that Ticket or on whose
behalf that Ticket was bought unless specifically allowed by the terms and
conditions applying to that Ticket.

That doesn't allow it to be used in these circumstances.

5.2 When a Ticket is purchased on behalf of an organisation, business or similar
entity, it may be used by any person employed by that organisation, business or
similar entity unless otherwise shown on the Ticket by means of a person’s
name
, photocard number or other identifying means. In such cases it may only
be used by the person identified on the Ticket.

Nor does that unless the companies accept the phraseology is out-dated and should have been changed when they started printing the purchaser's name on some tickets.
 
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najaB

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Nor does that unless the companies accept the phraseology is out-dated and should have been changed when they started printing the purchaser's name on some tickets.
The question is, does the fact that a name is printed on the ticket meet the requirement of showing that it can only be used by that person? I think you would be able to successfully make the argument that, absent any label or identification as to the reason for that name being there, it has no contractual meaning.

All the other markings of significance are labeled.
 

mikeg

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I have to say NajaB has a good point, otherwise how would it work when a person books online for multiple people? For example if I book for me and a friend through the Virgin Trains East Coast website, last time I did this it printed the name near the ToD CTR on all of our tickets.

I would argue that the 'Issued to Mr. Mikeg' on rovers has significance, but the name near the booking reference is just that - who booked the ticket.
 

furlong

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The question is, does the fact that a name is printed on the ticket meet the requirement of showing that it can only be used by that person?

The words used are "by means of" so the mere presence of the name is sufficient. (It's just another problem caused by poor drafting, and possibly unenforceable.)
 

MichaelAMW

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Surely the only thing that matters to the TOCs is that the ticket is only used by one person, so you can't share a season or use the discount inherent in many return tickets to generate two cheaper single tickets. Apart from ensuring this, I can't see how any rule about whom a ticket might or might not have been bought for has any impact on anything much. I'm happy to be enlightened on this.
 

Bletchleyite

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The words used are "by means of" so the mere presence of the name is sufficient. (It's just another problem caused by poor drafting, and possibly unenforceable.)

It's also unintentional. None of the booking engines allow you, when booking multiple tickets for issue on regular orange card, to specify names, so they all get the booker's name on them.
 

Merseysider

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It's also unintentional. None of the booking engines allow you, when booking multiple tickets for issue on regular orange card, to specify names, so they all get the booker's name on them.
Agreed.

In any case, assuming a standard orange ticket, the account name being printed in small letters is coincidental and unrelated to the terms of the ticket agreed to when purchasing.
 

najaB

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Apart from ensuring this, I can't see how any rule about whom a ticket might or might not have been bought for has any impact on anything much. I'm happy to be enlightened on this.
One reason why this rule exists is the same reason that it costs an exorbitant sum to change the name on an airline ticket: to prevent touting. Where there are Advance tickets, I could buy the entire quota and then sell them on at a discount to the walk-up fare and still turn a profit.
 

Bletchleyite

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One reason why this rule exists is the same reason that it costs an exorbitant sum to change the name on an airline ticket: to prevent touting. Where there are Advance tickets, I could buy the entire quota and then sell them on at a discount to the walk-up fare and still turn a profit.

Indeed.

I don't think the railway really cares who uses a ticket provided (a) it is not sold on the open market, and (b) if it is passed on, e.g. within a family or business, it is passed on in its entirety and not, for example, one person uses the outward and another the return (though even that isn't really enforced).

If it did care, it'd have a proper infrastructure for printing enforceable names on tickets rather than just the name on the booking.
 
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