Transpennine woes and a moan...

[Mcr Warrior]

Interesting TPE are now publicly mentioning rostering issues.

This was alluded to on the BBC Radio 5 Live news bulletin at 11 a.m. just now.

 

[Freemo]

Is there any precedent for a TOC fully giving up on a day with no external factors (weather, emergency services, strike) to blame?

 

[VauxhallNova]

That will be Matthew Golton intervening and making sure the real reason gets out there - he did that on GWR too.

Self inflicted problems at this stage of the management contract is not what they wanted but it is always best to own up straight away.

Shambles in the pre Xmas week, not good at all.

Straight away? Is this a new issue?

 

[RHolmes]

Interesting TPE are now publicly mentioning rostering issues. Is this perhaps a sign they’ve finally recognised what the cause of the reliability issues really is?

No the rostering system has gone completely down today, it’s a completely separate issue to the norm

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This was alluded to on the BBC Radio 5 Live news bulletin at 11 a.m. just now.

The stated reason (according to the BBC) being an IT / rostering problem which means that crews and trains don't match up, as @RHolmes has mentioned just now.

 

[mike57]

Looks like Scarborough York has gone back to a shuttle, apart from a couple of through services according to RTT. Not sure if its for the day or if its going to be the norm again, as some sort of emergency timetable

 

[DanNCL]

TPE are advertising ticket acceptance on Coastliner buses between York and Scarborough

 

[VauxhallNova]

The stated reason (according to the BBC) being an IT / rostering problem which means that crews and trains don't match up, as @RHolmes has mentioned just now.

Thanks. Clearly on Transpennine trains and crews don't usually match up.

 

[Andy R. A.]

The stated reason (according to the BBC) being an IT / rostering problem which means that crews and trains don't match up, as @RHolmes has mentioned just now.

What happened to the days when all you had available was a set of diagrams, pen and paper, a typewriter, and a telephone, backed up by a human brain ? We seemed to be able to manage to get the rostering done. Well, that's progress I suppose ?

 

[DanNCL]

No the rostering system has gone completely down today, it’s a completely separate issue to the norm

The stated reason (according to the BBC) being an IT / rostering problem which means that crews and trains don't match up, as @RHolmes has mentioned just now.

Of course this wouldn’t be having anywhere near as much of an impact if they hadn’t over optimised crew diagrams, as with fewer crew changes it would have been easier to revert to a paper rostering setup.

Thanks. Clearly on Transpennine trains and crews don't usually match up.

Quite!

 

[DoubleO]

No the rostering system has gone completely down today, it’s a completely separate issue to the norm

Surely today's roster should have been done at least a week ago, with daily sheets published etc. What exactly has happened to cause an immediate meltdown like this?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

TPE's Managing Director is asked for a quote on today's less than stellar performance...



Pic of a stereotypical somewhat dismissive looking shrug.

 

[kels430]

They are blaming it on an IT failure today but they’ve had rostering issues for months now, what is their excuse for yesterday’s shambolic service?

 

[EZJ]

Drivers have been issued with STP diagrams over the last few days as they are booking on that have had no scrutiny as required by anyone , created with from what I've been told a panic filled planning department. Taxis not booked, no breaks on the diagram, incorrect timings etc etc.

 

[Seehof]

I don’t understand this reason at all. Rosters are put up about a week in advance. Yes, changes are made in the ensuing days and a new roster is put up to replace an existing one but that is only if someone is sick, working a rest day (!), allocating a job to a spare person etc.
The way that now you can get 2 shift changes on a single journey is crazy. From the guard’s point of view, when I worked TransPennine trains, I loved it when you worked long journeys as you maintained continuity with the passengers.

 

[VauxhallNova]

Drivers have been issued with STP diagrams over the last few days as they are booking on that have had no scrutiny as required by anyone , created with from what I've been told a panic filled planning department. Taxis not booked, no breaks on the diagram, incorrect timings etc etc.

So not an IT failure?

 

[hibtastic]

TPE are an absolute joke. Something has to be done about this ASAP.

 

[LowLevel]

Drivers have been issued with STP diagrams over the last few days as they are booking on that have had no scrutiny as required by anyone , created with from what I've been told a panic filled planning department. Taxis not booked, no breaks on the diagram, incorrect timings etc etc.

With the pressure of planning departments over the last couple of years it's not a surprise things go wrong, particularly if the IT fails to support them.

Planning errors are pretty regular on any amended working for us at the minute, usually not too critical luckily but you have to be very careful to check what you're doing matches up between both traincrew and if possible RTT or the screens or similar. They really are up against it.

We had a couple of major clangers a few months ago but causing the inverse problem - engineering cancelling pretty much every long term plan diagram and short term plans issued to covered the train service. These had some errors but were manageable, however no one cancelled the long term planning diagrams so far too many train crews were rostered and paid for Sunday work than needed, with half doing nothing as result.

 

[hiall]

You fear for the future of this company. Drivers leaving their company to join this lot are taking a huge gamble imo.

 

[Bantamzen]

There were a fair few punters on the 09:42 Leeds - Chester that had abandoned TPE to give themselves a chance to get from Leeds to Manchester. Could get interesting on the Calder route if TPE don't solve at least some of their problems as we head towards Christmas weekend. I dread to think what it's like on P15 & P16 at Leeds today with so many services binned.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

This isn't a sudden issue today. The same issues existed in one for or another on Monday and Tuesday and also Monday last week.

There are diagrams where crew are rostered to trains which don't exist.

There are trains which do exist which have no one rostered to them.

The daily appearance sheets posted a week ago don't match up with the diagrams which are appearing in depots on a daily basis.

The obsession with optimised and efficient crew diagrams (on paper) means there are trains which have 3 or 4 crew changes en route, so as soon as 1 person is missing it causes chaos. On paper it looks good to the bean counters, but in reality it just doesn't work.

The diagrams have so many PASS rides on for crew that as soon as one train is missing then more than just one set of crew are in the wrong place.

They have trained a load of new drivers at one depot on a set of routes and traction, only to find, about 4 weeks before the December timetable change, that planning had moved a load of work around and they needed the drivers to drive different routes and traction, so they are no longer productive and have to start training on routes etc again.

The obsession with reducing and keeping route and traction knowledge between different depots and links down means then there is absolutely no cross cover ability and you may have staff but they don't sign the route or traction.

Add in that:

Morale is so low that front line staff generally have no interest in helping out

That there are various historical agreements with Aslef that means Drivers can't be shuffled around on the day to cover for staff shortages/ rostering errors without mutual agreement, which isn't always forthcoming

The RMT overtime ban is in place


And you have a perfect recipe for complete and utter chaos.

 

[VauxhallNova]

The plot thickens!

 

[Soundwave]

This isn't a sudden issue today. The same issues existed in one for or another on Monday and Tuesday and also Monday last week.

There are diagrams where crew are rostered to trains which don't exist.

There are trains which do exist which have no one rostered to them.

The daily appearance sheets posted a week ago don't match up with the diagrams which are appearing in depots on a daily basis.

The obsession with optimised and efficient crew diagrams (on paper) means there are trains which have 3 or 4 crew changes en route, so as soon as 1 person is missing it causes chaos. On paper it looks good to the bean counters, but in reality it just doesn't work.

The diagrams have so many PASS rides on for crew that as soon as one train is missing then more than just one set of crew are in the wrong place.

They have trained a load of new drivers at one depot on a set of routes and traction, only to find, about 4 weeks before the December timetable change, that planning had moved a load of work around and they needed the drivers to drive different routes and traction, so they are no longer productive and have to start training on routes etc again.

The obsession with reducing and keeping route and traction knowledge between different depots and links down means then there is absolutely no cross cover ability and you may have staff but they don't sign the route or traction.

Add in that:

Morale is so low that front line staff generally have no interest in helping out

That there are various historical agreements with Aslef that means Drivers can't be shuffled around on the day to cover for staff shortages/ rostering errors without mutual agreement, which isn't always forthcoming

The RMT overtime ban is in place


And you have a perfect recipe for complete and utter chaos.

So a bean counter somewhere has asked the planners for a schedule which is optimised until the pips squeak? Rather than a balance of robustness and efficiency?

 

[josh-j]

"IT'S ALL THE FAULT OF DFT THOUGH!!!!"

Not seen some of the die-hard TPE defenders in a while...

I've posted a few times here basically blaming the government for this mess. I wouldn't call that defending TPE, it's just a fact that the government is not interested in fixing this. It doesn't mean TPE are great, it means the people who have the power to fix it aren't bothering, and I think until we direct our anger at the government rather than the franchises/ex-franchises, the railway will continue to be run into the ground.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

So a bean counter somewhere has asked the planners for a schedule which is optimised until the pips squeak? Rather than a balance of robustness and efficiency?

It does very much seem that way, yes.

 

[VauxhallNova]

But why not change the timetable to match the resources available?

 

[Moonshot]

I happened to be on a TPE service earlier on .....it departed on time and arrived on time. The only issue was that the train was 90% empty. Clearly passengers are following advice of not traveling. Until we can get back to a decent frequency and reliability of service, passengers are not going to bother. Imo, it is not going to happen anytime soon.....this time next year may well see the same problems still existing

 

[HSTEd]

But why not change the timetable to match the resources available?

The railway is so intensively operated that it is essentially impossible to just "change the timetable".
You'd have to rebuild the timetable almost from scratch.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

But why not change the timetable to match the resources available?

I don't think it is quite as easy as that now.

I think that TPE have got themselves in such a mess that it is almost impossible to recover from without drivers (in particular) working rest days again and a huge amount of goodwill from all concerned.

Both these things seem unlikely as the former is not down to TPE but down to DfT making funds available and Aslef allowing rest day working whilst still being in dispute about the issue of a pay increase.

You can cut the timetable down as much as you like to match what you can run with the available resources, but ultimately you need trains to run to be able to train new staff and for existing staff to retain competence. You can't train new drivers or retain skills of existing ones unless there are trains for them to drive.

And eventually you reach a point, which I think TPE has, where it is almost impossible to reconcile those matters - i.e. if you cut the timetable down without anything else changing, then it will just continue to get worse and worse.

 

[matacaster]

Here is grim situation at Huddersfield now. 14.30.

Here is grim situation at Huddersfield now. 14.30.

Been informed by cust services chap that the online system tpe use to allocate crews went tits up last night, so crews didn't know where to go to. RR Coaches stuck on M62.