Transport for Wales 769's

[Jez]

No sign of any 769s on Realtimetrains today or yesterday.

Is that really it then for the 769s in passenger service in the Valleys?

I assume they have been withdrawn with the start of the new timetable .

 

[AdamWW]

Presumably.

But I seem to recall that Pacers made a few outings after their official "last services".

 

[Dai Corner]

Presumably.

But I seem to recall that Pacers made a few outings after their official "last services".

One would have to camp out at Queen Street until it's confirmed that they've all left Canton to be sure of getting the last ride then.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Presumably.

But I seem to recall that Pacers made a few outings after their official "last services".

Pacers had very little to replace them. All 231s are working.

 

[AdamWW]

One would have to camp out at Queen Street until it's confirmed that they've all left Canton to be sure of getting the last ride then.

Not sure I'll bother.

It was easier with the 143s because there was a cut-off date for them to be allowed to run....

Pacers had very little to replace them. All 231s are working.

I presume there was a reason that there were two 769s running up to last week. If they have two more 231s now (or staff who can run them) I could imagine a 769 being required again if available.

Except that there shouldn't be a problem with stock at the moment given that nothing is running through Radyr and Pontypridd.

I imagine this week they could run the Rhymney Line without any 231s if they needed to.

 

[Jez]

Not sure I'll bother.

It was easier with the 143s because there was a cut-off date for them to be allowed to run....



I presume there was a reason that there were two 769s running up to last week. If they have two more 231s now (or staff who can run them) I could imagine a 769 being required again if available.

Except that there shouldn't be a problem with stock at the moment given that nothing is running through Radyr and Pontypridd.

I imagine this week they could run the Rhymney Line without any 231s if they needed to.

I don't think they need 769s now the 231s are booked for all Rhymney diagrams. So.it makes sense to withdraw them. One less fleet for TFW to maintain.

The pacers could run on nearly every route in the South so were more useful to keep..its not like the 769s could be used elsewhere to free up Sprinters to help cover for the absent 175s and 197s.

 

[AdamWW]

I don't think they need 769s now the 231s are booked for all Rhymney diagrams. So.it makes sense to withdraw them. One less fleet for TFW to maintain.

The pacers could run on nearly every route in the South so were more useful to keep..its not like the 769s could be used elsewhere to free up Sprinters to help cover for the absent 175s and 197s.

No I don't expect they'll hang on to the 769's for long - it wouldn't make sense.

Just wondering if they might be kept on for a short while and might come out on the odd occasion if necessary. I think that if one fails though they can only be reasonably rescued by another one so they'd need presumably still need two in working order.

If I'm remembering correctly (and I may not be) the TfW 142's came out on an ad hoc basis for a while after they were supposed to be finished with.

And the "last day" of Pacers actually wasn't, quite.

 

[Jez]

I think they extended the pacers but they had to get permission from the DFT and it was agreed they had to be coupled.to another unit. Once this period came to an end where they were extended they were gone for good.

There probably isn't much point keeping 2 769s. Even if one was booked into service it would only free up one unit and there should be enough 231s to cover the route they both work. Its a good thing for TFW the 231s have been so successful. I imagine they can't wait to get rid of the 769s!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If I remember correctly, the whole reason the 231s are on a route that isn't one they were ordered for in the first place is so that TfW could rid themselves of the FLEXs A.S.A.P.

 

[AdamWW]

I think they extended the pacers but they had to get permission from the DFT and it was agreed they had to be coupled.to another unit. Once this period came to an end where they were extended they were gone for good.

Yes the Pacers had a hard deadline, though my memory is that once the 142s (but not the 143s) stopped being in regular use, 142s did still pop out now and again for a while as required.

In any case, for the last few weeks they have had two 769s out most days even if they weren't actually diagrammed for it.

There is nothing I can see intrinsically about the new timetable that changes anything (I don't think the times have changed at all) though maybe it was a target to have enough crews trained on 231s to do without 769s.

At present with a very restricted service running in the Valleys then I'm sure they don't need any 769s but it would be interesting to know if the remaining three are now completely out of use and being prepared to get stuck on a lorry for their Last Journey. Or if there's still a possibility that they might be used again if they can't muster up enough 231 crews.

If I remember correctly, the whole reason the 231s are on a route that isn't one they were ordered for in the first place is so that TfW could rid themselves of the FLEXs A.S.A.P.

Yes. So even if the 769's aren't completely gone, it won't be long.

There probably isn't much point keeping 2 769s. Even if one was booked into service it would only free up one unit

But by that logic they wouldn't have been out last week either.

 

[Jez]

Yes the Pacers had a hard deadline, though my memory is that once the 142s (but not the 143s) stopped being in regular use, 142s did still pop out now and again for a while as required.

In any case, for the last few weeks they have had two 769s out most days even if they weren't actually diagrammed for it.

There is nothing I can see intrinsically about the new timetable that changes anything (I don't think the times have changed at all) though maybe it was a target to have enough crews trained on 231s to do without 769s.

At present with a very restricted service running in the Valleys then I'm sure they don't need any 769s but it would be interesting to know if the remaining three are now completely out of use and being prepared to get stuck on a lorry for their Last Journey. Or if there's still a possibility that they might be used again if they can't muster up enough 231 crews.



Yes. So even if the 769's aren't completely gone, it won't be long.



But by that logic they wouldn't have been out last week either.

I dont think there was 9 of the 231s booked last week although I could be wrong. So they would have needed a couple of 769s to cover.

If I remember correctly, the whole reason the 231s are on a route that isn't one they were ordered for in the first place is so that TfW could rid themselves of the FLEXs A.S.A.P.

that is correct. Ideally they should be on Maesteg, Cheltenham, Ebbw Vale but I guess it was easier to keep hold of 3 170s and get Sprinters to cover the other diagrams on those routes whilst waiting for the 231s to move to where they should be.

 

[AdamWW]

I dont think there was 9 of the 231s booked last week although I could be wrong. So they would have needed a couple of 769s to cover.

They didn't have both out all day every day, and one ran at a time when there should have been a service according to the pdf timetables, but it didn't seem to be in the journey planner for that particular day.

So it seemed a bit ad hoc rather than just covering two of the diagrams.

 

[Jez]

They didn't have both out all day every day, and one ran at a time when there should have been a service according to the pdf timetables, but it didn't seem to be in the journey planner for that particular day.

So it seemed a bit ad hoc rather than just covering two of the diagrams.

I think it was always the plan to remove the 769s and 170s by the May TT change but they had to keep 3 of 170s on as they are so short of 175s that were meant to cover most of the Maestegs. The 769s arent really needed as there are enough 231s and also enough train crew to cover them.

I guess they used some 769s on an ad hoc basis until the TT change as they might as well have made use of them rather than use Sprinters to cover as they are badly needed elsewhere to cover for the 175s. Its a bit of a juggling act I think!

I think it was indeed intended to have the route between Rhymney and Penarth fully covered with 231s by the May TT change. The 231s have been a big success for TFW going from 1 diagram a day to 9 a day in the space of 4 months is a good achievement. Unlike the other new stock the 231s have been a big success.

 

[AdamWW]

I think it was indeed intended to have the route between Rhymney and Penarth fully covered with 231s by the May TT change. The 231s have been a big success for TFW going from 1 diagram a day to 9 a day in the space of 4 months is a good achievement. Unlike the other new stock the 231s have been a big success.

Yes they are very good trains and seem to have gone into service with only minor hiccups.

 

[meld3]

Yes they are very good trains and seem to have gone into service with only minor hiccups.

Yes, I have had 7 of them today, and like the Anglia ones, they really are lovely trains with a super turn of speed uphill. If only they would become the default UK DMU.....

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, I have had 7 of them today, and like the Anglia ones, they really are lovely trains with a super turn of speed uphill. If only they would become the default UK DMU.....

Part of me thinks that would make life a bit dull.

On the other hand, it is so nice not having the engine under the floor that it would be rather nice if there were more around.

 

[33017]

The three in traffic are 008, 421 & 445.

For anyone interested, last passenger trains worked by the other five were:

769002 2F82 1940 Caerphilly-Cardiff 21/03/23

769003 2P87 1727 Rhymney-Penarth 07/03/23, terminated Cardiff due to a power fault

769006 2P33 1025 Caerphilly-Cardiff (vice 1000 Bargoed-Penarth) 13/03/23

769007 2F39 2124 Penarth-Cardiff 25/02/23

769452 2P83 1728 Ystrad Mynach-Penarth to Cardiff 05/04/23

And to complete the set:

769008 2D08 0747 Penarth-Bargoed to Caerphilly (failed). Rescued by 769445 and ran ECS to Canton via Ystrad Mynach 28/04/23

769421 2F33 2124 Penarth-Cardiff 19/05/23

769445 2F78 1849 Bargoed-Cardiff 19/05/23

 

[Jez]

Does anyone know when TFW will be removing the final 769s from their depot. I understand they are not in passenger service any longer. But I saw one parked up at Canton whilst passing west bound on 175116. Unfortunately I didn't notice the number. I can imagine they would want rid of them ASAP if they are no longer in passenger service?

 

[Pete_uk]

Yes, I have had 7 of them today, and like the Anglia ones, they really are lovely trains with a super turn of speed uphill. If only they would become the default UK DMU.....

The flirts seem to be the biggest change in DMU design & ease of access since the... 30's?

 

[Bikeman78]

Does anyone know when TFW will be removing the final 769s from their depot. I understand they are not in passenger service any longer. But I saw one parked up at Canton whilst passing west bound on 175116. Unfortunately I didn't notice the number. I can imagine they would want rid of them ASAP if they are no longer in passenger service?

If it was the one near the water tower on the low level depot then it's 769006. Right bag of bolts that one!

 

[Anonymous10]

If it was the one near the water tower on the low level depot then it's 769006. Right bag of bolts that one!

Whats wrong with it for you to say that?

 

[Bikeman78]

Whats wrong with it for you to say that?

A mate of mine kept a tally of how many times each one failed in a given month last year. That one was by far the worst.

 

[Jez]

If it was the one near the water tower on the low level depot then it's 769006. Right bag of bolts that one!

Yes it was. Explains why its still there then!

 

[Buzz68]

I see 769006 was moved on Sunday 4th June as 5Z69 from Canton via Central to the Brickyard for onward transportation. I guess that just leaves 769008, 769421 and 769445.

 

[Bob Price]

Has anyone got a picture of one of the units on a low loader being shipped out that I could use in a video please? You will be credited to avoid people copying it.

 

[AdamWW]

Has anyone got a picture of one of the units on a low loader being shipped out that I could use in a video please? You will be credited to avoid people copying it.

You're welcome to the photo in post 2229 (page 75) if it's of any use.

PM me if you want a higher resolution.

 

[315801]

Pity we don't know if the non pantograph coaches were compatible with the class 150 units as they would provide extra capacity on tfw or northern services were 3 coaches would be needed at a bare minimum.

I would just like to add for the moderators that whilst I know this is a 769 thread, I jut thought its a shame to waste coaches which could provide extra capacity where it is deeply needed as mentioned above

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Pity we don't know if the non pantograph coaches were compatible with the class 150 units as they would provide extra capacity on tfw or northern services were 3 coaches would be needed at a bare minimum.

I think this (in another 769 thread) might answer that question in terms of compatability?

Absolutely not. The diesel systems are nothing alike.

 

[Bob Price]

You're welcome to the photo in post 2229 (page 75) if it's of any use.

PM me if you want a higher resolution.

Thank you. I'll try this one and let you know if I need a higher res one

 

[315801]

My thinking was as a non powered trailer ( no engine fitted ) just a trailer coach. My apologies that I was not specific in what I wrote in post 2,367.