Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

[AdamWW]

I agree, that's an unsatisfactory suituation which ideally would be avoided. However a 150 is, if anything, an even more significant downgrade from the 170s that passengers on the Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham Spa routes have enjoyed for even longer than Rhymney has had 231s. As I see it, unless TfW are able to delay releasing the 170s until sufficient 756s can enter service on the Rhymney line to release all the 231s directly, there are only two clear options:

1. significantly downgrade Rhymney and Penarth passengers from 231s to 150s
2. significantly downgrade Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham Spa passengers from 170s to 150s

I don't see how one option is "far more logical" than the other (from the passenger's point of view) - both options are awful but unfortunately it seems likely that TfW will have to choose and implement one of them.

I think on the whole people are likely to be more annoyed at having brand new trains introduced with some publicity and then taken away again in favour of what they had before, than having old trains replaced with less nicer older ones.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I agree, that's an unsatisfactory suituation which ideally would be avoided. However a 150 is, if anything, an even more significant downgrade from the 170s that passengers on the Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham Spa routes have enjoyed for even longer than Rhymney has had 231s. As I see it, unless TfW are able to delay releasing the 170s until sufficient 756s can enter service on the Rhymney line to release all the 231s directly, there are only two clear options:

1. significantly downgrade Rhymney and Penarth passengers from 231s to 150s
2. significantly downgrade Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham Spa passengers from 170s to 150s

I don't see how one option is "far more logical" than the other (from the passenger's point of view) - both options are awful but unfortunately it seems likely that TfW will have to choose and implement one of them.

I would think option 2 (replacing 170s with 150s) is less unpalatable. Would not be good taking back the shiny new trains that have been boasted about.

Can't remember this has already been asked (and answered), but how quickly can staff who sign 231s be trainned on 756s (and vice-versa)? Or will all TfW staff that sign one type sign both? Unless traction knowledge is a non-issue in this suituation, then I would guess that complicates using the 756s outside the Core Valley Lines (plus Penarth, Barry Island and Barry-Bridgend).

I suppose 756s require more to learn over the 231s but the same basic unit. Thinking of Pantograph and Battery operation and switching between them. I was going to say braking distances/behaviour might be identical but then regenerative braking would be an important thing to learn ?.

 

[Plasmanoodle]

I saw a pair of 3 car class 756s pull into Cardiff Central last night around 2030, I assume from Canton. They came into platform 4 for a few minutes before swiftly returning. Neither pantograph was up so they must have been running on battery. No engine to be heard. Their take-off was rather sprightly.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I saw a pair of 3 car class 756s pull into Cardiff Central last night around 2030, I assume from Canton. They came into platform 4 for a few minutes before swiftly returning. Neither pantograph was up so they must have been running on battery. No engine to be heard. Their take-off was rather sprightly.

I vaguely recall working out that the 231s maybe did Canton - Central - Canton runs. But I wondered if they were doing a reversing manoeuvre to get from the North side sidings over to the sidings on the South side or vice versa ?. Seems a long time ago now (the 231s) and I now really need to wake up and take notice again when I am in Cardiff !.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

I vaguely recall working out that the 231s maybe did Canton - Central - Canton runs. But I wondered if they were doing a reversing manoeuvre to get from the North side sidings over to the sidings on the South side or vice versa ?. Seems a long time ago now (the 231s) and I now really need to wake up and take notice again when I am in Cardiff !.

756s are definitely active, yesterday I commuted from Chepstow to Bridgend and saw they'd move within the day, definitely not 231s given the panto.

I did see that either a 231 or 756 seemes to be coupled to a 66, are they being dragged around Canton?

 

[supervc-10]

Cold weather definitely has an effect on range with electric vehicles. Most modern electric cars will heat the battery when first setting off in the cold- it's better in the long run for the life of the pack. I've seen a ~40 mile difference in what I'd be comfortable with driving non-stop in my electric Polestar 2, which has the 'standard' 69kWh battery, from about 230 in mild temps like we're having now to 190 or so in the colder weather. My car has the heat pump, which helps too.

I'd imagine that similar thermal management will be implemented in the batteries on the 756s. After all, they want the batteries to last as long as possible!

Have Stadler claimed any particular electric only range?

 

[AdamWW]

Have Stadler claimed any particular electric only range?

It's hard to imagine anyone would buy a fleet of trains which need to run partly on battery without the manufacturer specifying performence (not just range, but also charging time when under the wires).

 

[supervc-10]

Oh I'm sure they've given a number to TfW - I was meaning claiming anything to the public!

 

[D7672]

Friday 28th April 2023, 769008 had issues at Aber on the Rhymney line, while working the 0815 Rhymney.

Acceleration and speed was very noticeably improved and I can't wait for the Ebbw line to have them.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Oh I'm sure they've given a number to TfW - I was meaning claiming anything to the public!

You expect a government buying farms to be public?

All we know is they're expected to operate engine free above Cardiff so I'd say a fair wack, hopefully they impress in service given the price!

 

[AdamWW]

You expect a government buying farms to be public?

All we know is they're expected to operate engine free above Cardiff so I'd say a fair wack, hopefully they impress in service given the price!

Well the 231s seem quite impressive to me.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Well the 231s seem quite impressive to me.

See replacing 170s with 150s seems the opposite to me

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

See replacing 170s with 150s seems the opposite to me

So does replacing 231s with 150s which is rumoured up thread to be the case for Rhymney Valley come 398 service date.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

So does replacing 231s with 150s which is rumoured up thread to be the case for Rhymney Valley come 398 service date.

I mean replacing them on a 30ish mile service isn't as bad as a 100ish mile service

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 6L22 1659 Dollands Moor Sdgs to Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs | 03/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 6L22 1659 departure from Dollands Moor Sdgs to Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs on 03/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Caped

Realtime Trains | 5Q99 0254 Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs to Cardiff Canton Sidings | 04/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q99 0254 departure from Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs to Cardiff Canton Sidings on 04/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Caped

 

[AdamWW]

Interesting sight yesterday...

An in-service 231 with "Not in service" prominently displayed on all the destination boards (bilingually, of course), and underneath a list of the stations it called at. Except even that was wrong because due to late running it was skipping a few stops.

I find it interesting that visual displays are so important that trains can't turn a wheel in service if they don't have them, but it seems to be OK that it's not possible to get them to actually work properly.

 

[Bikeman78]

Interesting sight yesterday...

An in-service 231 with "Not in service" prominently displayed on all the destination boards (bilingually, of course), and underneath a list of the stations it called at. Except even that was wrong because due to late running it was skipping a few stops.

I find it interesting that visual displays are so important that trains can't turn a wheel in service if they don't have them, but it seems to be OK that it's not possible to get them to actually work properly.

Yes, one of the great ironies. Information systems are most useful when things are going wrong or something unusual happens but that is when they usually fall over.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, one of the great ironies. Information systems are most useful when things are going wrong or something unusual happens but that is when they usually fall over.

Well that is certainly true but in my experience they do a pretty good job at providing misinformation a lot of them time even when nothing has gone wrong.

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has been a lots of trains that have confidently but incorrectly announced the next station, for example.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well that is certainly true but in my experience they do a pretty good job at providing misinformation a lot of them time even when nothing has gone wrong.

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has been a lots of trains that have confidently but incorrectly announced the next station, for example.

I have learnt to treat "information" with suspicion and I try to rely on common sense to compare various sources (e.g. a 700 is unlikely to be going to Victoria). Sometimes I do have to rely on the information.

 

[AdamWW]

I have learnt to treat "information" with suspicion

Talking of which, I presume that the 8 car (two unit) 231s shown on Realtimetrains as running on Saturday evening are a figment of its imagination?

 

[800001]

756101/102/104 are currently at Calais awaiting transfer to Dollands Moor, then forward to Cardiff Canton.

 

[3973EXL]

92011 66002 756101/102/104
15 early DM West Jn

Realtime Trains | 6L22 1430 Dollands Moor Sdgs to Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs | 22/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 6L22 1430 departure from Dollands Moor Sdgs to Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs on 22/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[CapitalStar378]

What are TfW going to do with all the 756s? There must be very little use for them assuming the Rhymney electrification won't be complete until late next year.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

What are TfW going to do with all the 756s? There must be very little use for them assuming the Rhymney electrification won't be complete until late next year.

I think they're trying to get the fault free miles going to Swindon and back for now, so they can get into service pretty quick once driver training / conversion is done, but there isn't much use for them until the wires are up no.

 

[Western 52]

I think they're trying to get the fault free miles going to Swindon and back for now, so they can get into service pretty quick once driver training / conversion is done, but there isn't much use for them until the wires are up no.

They'll also need a lot of secure siding space for them.

 

[AdamWW]

They'll also need a lot of secure siding space for them.

I presume that's why they've (partly?) taken over the Barry Tourist Railway.

 

[1D54]

Where's the best place to go and see some of these?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Where's the best place to go and see some of these?

Rhymney - Penarth is almost exclusively the 231s now. 756s can be found on test runs between Cardiff Canton and Swindon, or in Canton or Barry Tourist Railway sidings.

 

[1D54]

Thank you.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Where's the best place to go and see some of these?

I don't know whether the Barry Tourist Railway sidings are these BUT there are (rwo iirc) sidings running alongside what might have been an ex-railway shed (modern). The shed is more or less alongside Barry station with the sidings hidden behind it. Those sidings where home to 4 x 231 last time I looked.