Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

[Envoy]

I have just been on RTT and tapped in for Cadoxton station to see what was being used on that line. The only 4 coach train that I could find was the every other hour service that goes to Bridgend via Rhoose. Every other train was a 2 car 150 which of course means Barry Island - which will be packed today as everybody goes nuts with the good weather.

So why I ask are 2 coach 150’s being used on the Penarth to Rhymney line - when they surely have enough Class 231 FLIRT trains for that route - and those 150’s not being used on the Barry Island trains to make 4 car sets? Sounds like incompetence to me if those 231’s are sitting in sidings doing nothing.

 

[Jez]

Good question. I just tried using Real Time Trains' "Quick Search" feature to try and locate them and, after searching for all 11 units (231001 - 231011), it found only one. 231005 apparently doing the 11:06 Cardiff Central to Rhymney service at the moment.

I did the same thing and also.only found 005!

 

[Dai Corner]

I have just been on RTT and tapped in for Cadoxton station to see what was being used on that line. The only 4 coach train that I could find was the every other hour service that goes to Bridgend via Rhoose. Every other train was a 2 car 150 which of course means Barry Island - which will be packed today as everybody goes nuts with the good weather.

So why I ask are 2 coach 150’s being used on the Penarth to Rhymney line - when they surely have enough Class 231 FLIRT trains for that route - and those 150’s not being used on the Barry Island trains to make 4 car sets? Sounds like incompetence to me if those 231’s are sitting in sidings doing nothing.

Not enough traincrew who are trained on 231s available?

 

[Anonymous10]

Not enough traincrew who are trained on 231s available?

All Rhymney Crew would be trained and given how long they've been in service you'd think that problem would be dealt with.

 

[craigybagel]

All Rhymney Crew would be trained and given how long they've been in service you'd think that problem would be dealt with.

Rhymney crew only make up a small percentage of all the valley crews.

 

[Anonymous10]

Rhymney crew only make up a small percentage of all the valley crews.

Yes but you'd think more valleys crew would sign them or enough for more than one unit to be out.

 

[sd0733]

Looking back through the last few weeks, they're all the same every Sunday, 1 which does an all day diagram starting and finishing at Rhymney and an afternoon one which starts in Rhymney just after 13:30 and ends at Canton, this one was a 150 instead today.
No idea why that is but it doesn't look like they're really booked out on a Sunday but could be all sorts of reasons.

 

[60159]

Looking back through the last few weeks, they're all the same every Sunday, 1 which does an all day diagram starting and finishing at Rhymney and an afternoon one which starts in Rhymney just after 13:30 and ends at Canton, this one was a 150 instead today.
No idea why that is but it doesn't look like they're really booked out on a Sunday but could be all sorts of reasons.

Arrived Cardiff Fri pm and now left having seen 10x231 but only 1 out yesterday.
Any ideas on the 2 756s I’ve just passed at Newport on 3q37?

Arrived Cardiff Fri pm and now left having seen 10x231 but only 1 out yesterday.
Any ideas on the 2 756s I’ve just passed at Newport on 3q37?

If of any interest 4 756s viewable asyou approach Barry (02,05, 109/10. 1 hidden. Another 3 at front of shed-01furthest away and 06 but couldn’t get middle one.
1 on station side of shed and 4-6 on other side.
If anyone can help with the missing ones that would be great.

 

[StripeyNick]

Arrived Cardiff Fri pm and now left having seen 10x231 but only 1 out yesterday.
Any ideas on the 2 756s I’ve just passed at Newport on 3q37?


If of any interest 4 756s viewable asyou approach Barry (02,05, 109/10. 1 hidden. Another 3 at front of shed-01furthest away and 06 but couldn’t get middle one.
1 on station side of shed and 4-6 on other side.
If anyone can help with the missing ones that would be great.

Posted in the Flirt group on Facebook:

as of 05:20 Saturday 2nd September 2023

756102 10rd
756106 10rd
756103 9rd
756107 9rd
756110 RunRoundRd
756109 RunRoundRd
756004 SkillCentRd
756002 SkillCentRd
756005 SkillCentRd
756006 3rd
756003 4rd
756001 5rd
756007 HRL
.

 

[Envoy]

Only one 150 on the Penarth route today (Monday 4 September) - all the rest are Class 231 FLIRT’s. So, obviously on a hot sunny Sunday when fewer trains run, TfW decide to leave these new air conditioned 4 coach trains in the sidings and make people use 2 coach 150’s. Why? The only thing I can think if is that the Sunday trains are worked by volunteers and that these people are retired and have never been trained on the new trains? I thought that Sunday was now part of the working week and that TfW had given them a pay rise to account for this - hence no strikes in Wales by TfW staff?

I also see that loads of Class 756 FLIRT trains are parked in Barry - see my 2 photos. These are of course the tri-mode version that can work off overhead power, battery power and also have a diesel engine. So, when are TfW going to get these trains actually running? Have they even started training staff on them yet?

 

[SeaKing]

Arrived Cardiff Fri pm and now left having seen 10x231

Was 007 the one you didn't get

 

[twpsaesneg]

Only one 150 on the Penarth route today (Monday 4 September) - all the rest are Class 231 FLIRT’s. So, obviously on a hot sunny Sunday when fewer trains run, TfW decide to leave these new air conditioned 4 coach trains in the sidings and make people use 2 coach 150’s. Why? The only thing I can think if is that the Sunday trains are worked by volunteers and that these people are retired and have never been trained on the new trains? I thought that Sunday was now part of the working week and that TfW had given them a pay rise to account for this - hence no strikes in Wales by TfW staff?

I also see that loads of Class 756 FLIRT trains are parked in Barry - see my 2 photos. These are of course the tri-mode version that can work off overhead power, battery power and also have a diesel engine. So, when are TfW going to get these trains actually running? Have they even started training staff on them yet?

In fairness to TfW, the majority of services to and from Penarth on Sunday were formed by Class 231's.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Penarth between 0600 and 2000 on 03/09/2023

Train information at Penarth between 0600 and 2000 on 03/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Until there are some energised and ORR-Authorised wires up in the Valley Lines, the Class 756's are of limited use (they are lower in power and I suspect range than 231's), however as I understand it training has commenced on runs to Swindon and back on the main line so they should be on the forward foot once the infrastructure is available.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In fairness to TfW, the majority of services to and from Penarth on Sunday were formed by Class 231's.

It’s very easy to be the majority on a line taking ten minutes to traverse yet receiving a one per two hours service.

One train per two hours - “Metro” branding everywhere. Joke. The two are mutually exclusive. The frequency increase cannot come soon enough.

 

[Dai Corner]

Only one 150 on the Penarth route today (Monday 4 September) - all the rest are Class 231 FLIRT’s. So, obviously on a hot sunny Sunday when fewer trains run, TfW decide to leave these new air conditioned 4 coach trains in the sidings and make people use 2 coach 150’s. Why? The only thing I can think if is that the Sunday trains are worked by volunteers and that these people are retired and have never been trained on the new trains? I thought that Sunday was now part of the working week and that TfW had given them a pay rise to account for this - hence no strikes in Wales by TfW staff

See post 1443 and the following ones.

I also see that loads of Class 756 FLIRT trains are parked in Barry - see my 2 photos. These are of course the tri-mode version that can work off overhead power, battery power and also have a diesel engine. So, when are TfW going to get these trains actually running? Have they even started training staff on them yet?

When there are significant lengths of OHLE available for use. The 231s are virtually the same but diesel only so any training done on them won't need to be repeated on756s.

 

[60159]

Posted in the Flirt group on Facebook:

as of 05:20 Saturday 2nd September 2023

756102 10rd
756106 10rd
756103 9rd
756107 9rd
756110 RunRoundRd
756109 RunRoundRd
756004 SkillCentRd
756002 SkillCentRd
756005 SkillCentRd
756006 3rd
756003 4rd
756001 5rd
756007 HRL
.

Fantastic thanks. I’ll need to work out where’s where! Think I can but may revert.

Yes. Know where it was!

Fantastic thanks. I’ll need to work out where’s where! Think I can but may revert.

Yes. Know where it was!

Trying to reply to Seaking 1451.

 

[SeaKing]

Fantastic thanks. I’ll need to work out where’s where! Think I can but may revert.

Yes. Know where it was!


Trying to reply to Seaking 1451.

07 has eluded me on 4 trips to Cardiff including twice last week

 

[Envoy]

In fairness to TfW, the majority of services to and from Penarth on Sunday were formed by Class 231's.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Penarth between 0600 and 2000 on 03/09/2023

Train information at Penarth between 0600 and 2000 on 03/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I was actually on the section of route north of Queen Street and virtually every train was a 2 car 150.
0600-2000 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

Today (Tue) being a weekday and they are virtually all Class 231 FLIRT’s. 0000-2359 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

I note that nobody has come back on here and stated why TfW decide to leave most FLIRT’s parked up on Sunday’s and prefer to use 2 car 150’s on a reduce timetable and not use those to strengthen other services going to Barry Island.

Until there are some energised and ORR-Authorised wires up in the Valley Lines, the Class 756's are of limited use (they are lower in power and I suspect range than 231's), however as I understand it training has commenced on runs to Swindon and back on the main line so they should be on the forward foot once the infrastructure is available.

The 756’s will be able to go all the way from Cardiff Central to Bridgend via the Vale of Glam Coast Line without overhead power lines so I don't see why they can’t be up and running now.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I was actually on the section of route north of Queen Street and virtually every train was a 2 car 150.
0600-2000 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

Today (Tue) being a weekday and they are virtually all Class 231 FLIRT’s. 0000-2359 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

I note that nobody has come back on here and stated why TfW decide to leave most FLIRT’s parked up on Sunday’s and prefer to use 2 car 150’s on a reduce timetable and not use those to strengthen other services going to Barry Island.



The 756’s will be able to go all the way from Cardiff Central to Bridgend via the Vale of Glam Coast Line without overhead power lines so I don't see why they can’t be up and running now.

I do imagine the use of 150s helps retain the traction knowledge, especially for Rhymney depot.

 

[StripeyNick]

I was actually on the section of route north of Queen Street and virtually every train was a 2 car 150.
0600-2000 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

Today (Tue) being a weekday and they are virtually all Class 231 FLIRT’s. 0000-2359 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

I note that nobody has come back on here and stated why TfW decide to leave most FLIRT’s parked up on Sunday’s and prefer to use 2 car 150’s on a reduce timetable and not use those to strengthen other services going to Barry Island.



The 756’s will be able to go all the way from Cardiff Central to Bridgend via the Vale of Glam Coast Line without overhead power lines so I don't see why they can’t be up and running now.

The 756s are still undergoing mileage accumulation so I can't see them being in traffic for a while.

 

[Anonymous10]

I was actually on the section of route north of Queen Street and virtually every train was a 2 car 150.
0600-2000 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

Today (Tue) being a weekday and they are virtually all Class 231 FLIRT’s. 0000-2359 Lisvane & Thornhill RTT.

I note that nobody has come back on here and stated why TfW decide to leave most FLIRT’s parked up on Sunday’s and prefer to use 2 car 150’s on a reduce timetable and not use those to strengthen other services going to Barry Island.



The 756’s will be able to go all the way from Cardiff Central to Bridgend via the Vale of Glam Coast Line without overhead power lines so I don't see why they can’t be up and running now.

I suppose Sunday could be 231 maintenance day?

 

[60159]

Posted in the Flirt group on Facebook:

as of 05:20 Saturday 2nd September 2023

756102 10rd
756106 10rd
756103 9rd
756107 9rd
756110 RunRoundRd
756109 RunRoundRd
756004 SkillCentRd
756002 SkillCentRd
756005 SkillCentRd
756006 3rd
756003 4rd
756001 5rd
756007 HRL
.

Any help with the 2x756/1s
on the Swindon test runs yesterday?
Saw them at Newport around 11.15.
Judging by the above must be 2 of 101/4/5/8. Saw 104 at Canton on Sat.
Being a total Luddite I only seem able to reply but not send something new.
How do I find out about this?

 

[Rhydgaled]

The 756’s will be able to go all the way from Cardiff Central to Bridgend via the Vale of Glam Coast Line without overhead power lines so I don't see why they can’t be up and running now.

My understanding was that Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry was pushing the range of the batteries on the class 756s to the limits, hence the decision to have a diesel engine as well (which TfW are calling tri-mode) to make sure the unit makes it back to the wires on its return to Cardiff/Caerphilly/Rhymney. Whether the unit could run all day on just the diesel engine and batteries with no OHLE is unclear - are the diesel fuel tanks too small for example? I think this has been discussed earlier in this topic but I cannot remember what conclusions, if any, were reached.

Being a total Luddite I only seem able to reply but not send something new.

In my case (Firefox browser on Windows) if I scroll down almost to the very bottom of the forum page, past all the posts, there is a box at the bottom to type into just above the box that shows Users Who Are Viewing This Thread. It does say 'Post reply' but that just means you are replying to the topic, not an individual (unless you have inserted any quotes). Or is it a whole new topic that you are trying to start (ie. something completely unrelated to TfW FLIRTs)?

 

[Topological]

It is a good job that TfW are not using 150s on Manchester while 175s sit doing nothing, having been neglected by TfW. Sorry, that is what is happening. Also, this is a nationalised provider under a Labour government, so not looking like a land of milk and honey should Westminster change hands next time around.

(Before there are any people saying about maintenance on 175s, the failure was TfWs and TfW were warned about it. Google for the links)

 

[anthony263]

My understanding was that Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry was pushing the range of the batteries on the class 756s to the limits, hence the decision to have a diesel engine as well (which TfW are calling tri-mode) to make sure the unit makes it back to the wires on its return to Cardiff/Caerphilly/Rhymney. Whether the unit could run all day on just the diesel engine and batteries with no OHLE is unclear - are the diesel fuel tanks too small for example? I think this has been discussed earlier in this topic but I cannot remember what conclusions, if any, were reached.


In my case (Firefox browser on Windows) if I scroll down almost to the very bottom of the forum page, past all the posts, there is a box at the bottom to type into just above the box that shows Users Who Are Viewing This Thread. It does say 'Post reply' but that just means you are replying to the topic, not an individual (unless you have inserted any quotes). Or is it a whole new topic that you are trying to start (ie. something completely unrelated to TfW FLIRTs)?

Tfw said the diesel engine kicks in when batteries drop to 35%. They are fully charged after 15 minutes under the wires so should be fine on Bridgend/ Barry Island to Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare services

 

[Anonymous10]

It is a good job that TfW are not using 150s on Manchester while 175s sit doing nothing, having been neglected by TfW. Sorry, that is what is happening. Also, this is a nationalised provider under a Labour government, so not looking like a land of milk and honey should Westminster change hands next time around.

(Before there are any people saying about maintenance on 175s, the failure was TfWs and TfW were warned about it. Google for the links)

Precious little to do with politics, many of those 175s are awaiting handback to the rosco at Landore or undergoing remedial work as many units do on handback to the rosco.

The fact a deal wasn't struck to keep them in service could be anything from a new operator a longer lease than needed or cost all which we likely won't know for quite some time if at all.

But this all well off topic for a discussion on the class 231 and 756 flirt introduction.

 

[60159]

My understanding was that Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry was pushing the range of the batteries on the class 756s to the limits, hence the decision to have a diesel engine as well (which TfW are calling tri-mode) to make sure the unit makes it back to the wires on its return to Cardiff/Caerphilly/Rhymney. Whether the unit could run all day on just the diesel engine and batteries with no OHLE is unclear - are the diesel fuel tanks too small for example? I think this has been discussed earlier in this topic but I cannot remember what conclusions, if any, were reached.


In my case (Firefox browser on Windows) if I scroll down almost to the very bottom of the forum page, past all the posts, there is a box at the bottom to type into just above the box that shows Users Who Are Viewing This Thread. It does say 'Post reply' but that just means you are replying to the topic, not an individual (unless you have inserted any quotes). Or is it a whole new topic that you are trying to start (ie. something completely unrelated to TfW FLIRTs)?

Thanks for that.
Its not a whole new topic but if I have a request on something like Urgent Tops re a 756 I don’t want to be replying ti one about 755.
There may also be the possubility of a complete new topic.

 

[StripeyNick]

Any help with the 2x756/1s
on the Swindon test runs yesterday?
Saw them at Newport around 11.15.
Judging by the above must be 2 of 101/4/5/8. Saw 104 at Canton on Sat.
Being a total Luddite I only seem able to reply but not send something new.
How do I find out about this?

105 & 104 were out together today so I'd expect they were the ones you saw as they tend to stay paired up for the week

 

[Buzz68]

I see last Saturday there were a couple of middle of the night runs 5Q74-78 Canton - Radyr - Pontypridd - Canton, from my local group it's believed to be the first 756 test run up the Valleys

 

[60159]

105 & 104 were out together today so I'd expect they were the ones you saw as they tend to stay paired up for the week

Somehow I’ve missed your reply. Many thanks for the help.

 

[Envoy]

How much longer is it going to take to get those Class 756 FLIRTS into service? They have been sitting in sidings for months now.

Surely the top priority should be to get them running on the Vale of Glamorgan Coast Line and get that service up to half hourly - including Sundays? It might be the last chance to help save Cardiff Airport from it simply being used for British Airways engineering only?