Transporting Coffins by Rail

[Tullideph]

I was speaking to a relative a few days ago who says she can remember seeing coffins being loaded and unloaded from passenger trains on more than one occasion in the distant past (she didn't specify where, but as she's from the Scottish Highlands I would assume it was up there somewhere). Does this ever still occur, and if not, when did the practice cease?

 

[route:oxford]

I was speaking to a relative a few days ago who says she can remember seeing coffins being loaded and unloaded from passenger trains on more than one occasion in the distant past (she didn't specify where, but as she's from the Scottish Highlands I would assume it was up there somewhere). Does this ever still occur, and if not, when did the practice cease?

Bound to have happened at some point in the Highlands otherwise the deceased would never be able to return to their home-town for burial.

Do a google search for "London Necropolis Railway"...

 

[philjo]

The Brookwood Cemetery railway ran its own funeral trains for coffins & mourners from a private terminus station adjacent to Waterloo to Brookwood Cemetery.

http://www.tbcs.org.uk/railway.htm

 

[callum112233]

This video tells you all about it. Fast forward to 5mins30secs (unless you want to watch it all).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gke4ZCUyAuo&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Hydro]

This brings to mind the scene at the start of A Long Good Friday, of the coffin being unloaded from a train after the unpleasantness in Belfast.

 

[AlterEgo]

Do you mean just coffins, or coffins with the deceased inside?

 

[Tullideph]

This video tells you all about it. Fast forward to 5mins30secs (unless you want to watch it all).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gke4ZCUyAuo&feature=channel_video_title

Very interesting stuff, though I was wondering more about the transportation of coffins (with the deceased inside) on regular passenger services.

 

[Old Timer]

I recall special commercial instructions and rates for the conveyance of coffins and the person(s) in the accompanying party. I seem to recall that there needed to be a certificate provided indicating that there had been no infectious disease, the coffin was conveyed in a special vehicle which was locked oou, and it was necessary for this vehicle to be specially fumigated and infected after use.

Never dealt with one or heard of anyone who had. I suspect the practice died out after WW2.

 

[Hydro]

Surely, like airlines, you could pay to transport anything? Remember BR did basically run a delivery service - presumably you could transport a coffin like any other delivery.

 

[Old Timer]

Surely, like airlines, you could pay to transport anything? Remember BR did basically run a delivery service - presumably you could transport a coffin like any other delivery.

Yes, until 1968 (I believe it was) BR was known as a Common Carrier, this meant that whilst others could and would refuse to take any goods offered, BR HAD to accept any kind of traffic for any destination.

This to some extent explains the Out of Gauge conditions that are still extant (although for different reasons these days) as any load had to be conveyed provided it could fit through the Structure gauge.

Common carrier status put BR at a severe disadvantage against competitors who would carry anything as long as it fited their vehicles, so we lost the cream and ended up with the sour.

The situation with coffins goes back to Victorian times and was related to the fact that there was not the road network available, even in the 30s/40s that there is now and thus to transport a coffin on the road network was not really a feasible option given the relative speed at which this could be done by train.

The Railway delivery services became National Carriers Ltd (NCL) and Brtish Road Services (BRS) the former delivering small packages locally from parcels depots, and the latter larger loads.

NCL's operations I recall subsequently became merged into the Red Star service as private carriers gained a foothold in the market. With the demise of parcels trains of course there was no network for them.

 

[Greeny]

Last time I came across it was 1977 at Lime Street - an 'occupied' coffin arrived on one of the Euston trains and was met by Undertakers. No doubt Old Timer can confirm this, but I seem to recall that as railway staff, we are entitled to a free train ride in the uk when we die and our coffin is to be transported, but I'll stand to be corrected.

G

 

[ObservationCar]

Very interesting stuff, though I was wondering more about the transportation of coffins (with the deceased inside) on regular passenger services.

Jimmy Knapp, was conveyed in the DVT of a of a Virgin West Coast service from London Euston to Glasgow in 2000?, with the first class taken out of service for close family and friends.

 

[a good off]

According to one of my colleagues who worked as a guard during the 80s and still has archives of paperwork from that time, it was on 23/03/88 that BR formally stopped carrying occupied coffins. They apparently dealt with quite a few during and up to that period.

 

[Oracle]

Airlines do of course convey coffins. We once had a client who was Italian, and died near Winchester in a motorcycle crash. Say 25 years ago it was around £1500 to convey the remains as freight. The coffins have to be sealed of course.

 

[merlodlliw]

When I met passenger trains from Euston at Rhyl to take delivery of newspapers,I was in the wholesale news trade, the trains usually had a complete goods van at each end,with a cage running the entire length,so goods could be locked off, many a time I saw a Coffin wrapped in Hessian sacking on its way to Holyhead for Ireland burial, this was in the 60s.
Guard told us the train would be met at Holyhead by undertakers for transfer,the guard also mentioned he held documentation & custom paperwork to be handed over.
If I recall the ties had seals on them, it never bothered us.


Bob

 

[Greenback]

As Old Timer has said, the railways used to carry just about everything. In Victorian times, there were few alternatives.

 

[Essexman]

It was a coffin carried by rail that resulted in the town of Whitley having its name changed to Whitley Bay.

See extract below from No Boat Required - Exploring Tidal Islands


'There is no bay, the name having been changed from Whitley in 1902 thanks to a William Oliver, although he knew nothing of it. Mr Oliver had died while visiting Polton near Edinburgh and his family arranged for his coffin to be returned by train in time for the funeral. As the mourners waited at St Paul’s church a telegraph message arrived from the Station Master at Whitby in Yorkshire, saying that the coffin had mistakenly been sent there. It was 8.45 in the evening by the time it eventually arrived at Whitley and the funeral took place by lamplight. Both the Railway Company and the Post Office had for some time been asking for the town’s name to be changed to avoid such confusion, and after this distressing disruption of a burial the Council finally agreed. A competition to choose a new name was run by a local newspaper and Whitley Bay was by a narrow margin the favoured choice.'

 

[Old Timer]

Last time I came across it was 1977 at Lime Street - an 'occupied' coffin arrived on one of the Euston trains and was met by Undertakers. No doubt Old Timer can confirm this, but I seem to recall that as railway staff, we are entitled to a free train ride in the uk when we die and our coffin is to be transported, but I'll stand to be corrected.G

Indeed ! I must admit I had quite forgotten about that. Wasn't it in the old CoS book ?

Hello Chap ! I hope you are keeping well ?

I wonder how many on here know what the terms CoS and RoP mean ?

According to one of my colleagues who worked as a guard during the 80s and still has archives of paperwork from that time, it was on 23/03/88 that BR formally stopped carrying occupied coffins. They apparently dealt with quite a few during and up to that period.

Good Lord !

Thank you for that, it just goes to show there is always something new to learn on the Railway.

I never did know when it ceased officially, and thats as good as you can get !

 

[Trog]

Indeed ! I must admit I had quite forgotten about that. Wasn't it in the old CoS book ?

I wonder how many on here know what the terms CoS and RoP mean ?

Conditions of Service.
Rate of Pay.

Remember the complexity of BR overtime rates, time and a quarter for a bit extra on the end of a day. Double time for work done on Sunday provided you had booked on before midnight on Saturday. Time and three quarters for Sunday Days. There was even a time and seven twelths rate, but I forget what you had to do to qualify for that.


Some of the older railway companies had special vans for the transportation of coffins. In the typical diplomatic Old Railway style these were officially described as Corpse Vans.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Staff used ot get discount rates for coffins - the telegraphic code was "Funco"

My father in law relates a very stormy overnight journey from Holyhead in the 50's to Dublin - where the sheets covering deck cargo of repatriating coffins were torn off in the gale - the panicking crew frantically securing same in fear of a mass burial at sea.....