Trapped on a train

[contrex]

my first solo short train journey was at about ten or eleven, and a year or two after that, I was regularly exploring just about every corner of London on One Day Travelcards. It gave me a lot of confidence in working out how to get around, and stay safe - my parents did a good job of telling me what to do if I ever got into trouble, and I'd been on trains with my mum regularly since I was tiny, so I knew what to expect.

I lived at Herne Hill, south London, and from the age of about 10 during the school holidays my mother encouraged me to come up to Victoria to meet her from work. From the age of 11 I used to travel to & from school by train from Tulse Hill, and the summer I was 12 (1964) I discovered Southern Region Rail Rovers, which gave a choice of a day's unlimited travel in one of three areas. My favourite was the central one, roughly everything within Waterloo-Guildford-Redhill-London Bridge. My mother's chief worry was that I might not have a decent lunch. There was one awkward moment once in the Gents toilet on the Up & Down Slow island platform at Balham, but I just legged it out of there. A train to Sutton via Mitcham Junction was arriving at the time and I boarded it along with some adults. I did not tell my mother about that! The SR rovers were discontinued the year after, so I had to switch to LT Twin Rovers.

 

[jacksmithyton]

This happened to a friend of mine whilst at Uni. Ater a heavy night of drinking he fell asleep on the Met line, only to be woken up in the morning by a driver whilst the train was stabled in Uxbridge sidings. The driver let him out onto the street and my friend took a cab home...

 

[jamesst]

Standard media non story with the parent blaming everyone else but the obvious!
Just disappointed that it doesn't seen to be accompanied by the usual sad/angry face compo picture!!!

 

[scotraildriver]

The North Clyde lines between Glasgow and Balloch/Helensburgh are over run with young kids at the moment, it's an absolute nightmare with kids riding trains all night, causing trouble, vandalising units, indeed there have been a significant number of BTP operations lately to try to curb it. NO ONE is going to question 2 12 year olds. There's loads of kids about. At the end of the day they shouldn't have been on the train, they didn't have tickets, they had 2 phones but the wrong charger?, the parents had no idea where they were and there are big, clearly marked emergency egress handles at each door. It's not hard to get out a 334. I suspect they have been drinking and ended up in a deep sleep across a seat. It's certainly common at the moment, even at that age.

 

[357]

When I worked stations, any situation like this would be passed from gateline staff to me to deal with.

If they have no money for a ticket - we would work on the possibility they have run away from home. We would call the home address and ask a parent or adult to come and meet them. If they refused (and they sometimes did) then telling them it will become a police matter always worked.

It was mainly a liability thing - because if I let them travel without checking the backstory, and have enabled them to get further away from home, then the company were worried about bad press.

 

[jacksmithyton]

What is the policy of TOC's if a child is caught travelling without a ticket and/or claims not to have money to purchase one? Do they still get penalty fares, or do they get written warnings etc?

 

[d9009alycidon]

Have seen it on another Forum that there is more to this story than has been printed in the press, unfortunately the poster is reluctant to tell all.

 

[221129]

What is the policy of TOC's if a child is caught travelling without a ticket and/or claims not to have money to purchase one? Do they still get penalty fares, or do they get written warnings etc?

At that point generally for my TOC it becomes a police matter more as a safeguarding concern then anything else.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I loved this quote from one of the girls’ mothers:

“Any adults who saw two 12-year-olds getting off a train on their own should have questioned that."

Firstly, I’m fairly sure it’s quite common for 12 year olds to get the train unaccompanied.
Secondly, the trains are running around fairly empty at present, so it’s entirely possible no one saw them
Thirdly, they didn’t get off the train!

During the day I'd expect to see 12 year olds on the train unaccompanied. That late in the evening it would at least show poor parenting to me as they should be in bed, not on the train.

 

[scotraildriver]

There is alot more to this story than the press and mother are making out, not least of which the train spent an hour being cleaned by several people on arrival at Helensburgh and they weren't spotted. Somethings not adding up here.

 

[L401CJF]

During the day I'd expect to see 12 year olds on the train unaccompanied. That late in the evening it would at least show poor parenting to me as they should be in bed, not on the train.

Having been driving buses for a few years mostly on late shifts, and where possible communiting via Merseyrail home in the evening, the only people who seem to use public transport of an evening (particularly during the pandemic) have been kids around that age group and slightly older. Literally only seem to pick kids up after 7pm, and still pick them up until midnight. The mind boggles, the parents don't seem to care.

 

[Charlie2555]

Have seen it on another Forum that there is more to this story than has been printed in the press, unfortunately the poster is reluctant to tell all.

Can you share any details or link to the other forum? Likewise I don't believe this at all, and why were they going on a jolly during a global pandemic? I hate parents who justify their children's bad behaviour by using their youth as an excuse. Not all of us did such silly things when young...

 

[LowLevel]

What is the policy of TOC's if a child is caught travelling without a ticket and/or claims not to have money to purchase one? Do they still get penalty fares, or do they get written warnings etc?

You call for a police officer to take custody of them, ascertain their circumstances and ensure they're returned safely home, in the mean time they can be watched over by a suitable person, station manager, train guard etc. It's unlikely any formal proceedings will be taken against children but words of advice might be given to them/their parents or guardians particularly if they're persistent offenders.

Refusing kids who are blatantly kids travel is a big no-no (providing they're not for example in a gang smashing up the place in which case you're within your rights to refuse and call the police out to them instead), but there is a safeguarding requirement to make sure they're not in trouble, runaways etc.

 

[peters]

It should be, which makes me wonder if these kids were hiding because they didn't have tickets.

I don't know what the process is for trains but I have noticed on aircraft the cabin crew open the toilet doors and check there is no-one in them, rather than presuming they are unoccupied if the toilet door isn't showing that it is locked.

During the day I'd expect to see 12 year olds on the train unaccompanied. That late in the evening it would at least show poor parenting to me as they should be in bed, not on the train.

I know for a fact that most year seven pupils (aged 11 or 12) who need to travel to school on a public bus or train are not accompanied by a parent or teacher. When after school activities are taking place e.g. a football match against another school, this can lead to them travelling home by themselves on public transport at around 6pm rather than 4pm.

You call for a police officer to take custody of them, ascertain their circumstances and ensure they're returned safely home, in the mean time they can be watched over by a suitable person, station manager, train guard etc. It's unlikely any formal proceedings will be taken against children but words of advice might be given to them/their parents or guardians particularly if they're persistent offenders.

Refusing kids who are blatantly kids travel is a big no-no (providing they're not for example in a gang smashing up the place in which case you're within your rights to refuse and call the police out to them instead), but there is a safeguarding requirement to make sure they're not in trouble, runaways etc.

The impression I get is rail staff take a more lenient approach if they speak to staff and explain the situation either prior to boarding or as soon as possible after boarding, if multiple children get on without tickets and hide in the toilet then the police are more likely to show up.

17 year olds must be an issue, as legally they are children but a 19 year old could easily say they are 17 if they thought they are more likely to be let off for not buying a ticket.

 

[Turtle]

Standard media non story with the parent blaming everyone else but the obvious!
Just disappointed that it doesn't seen to be accompanied by the usual sad/angry face compo picture!!!

Standard media non story with the parent blaming everyone else but the obvious!
Just disappointed that it doesn't seen to be accompanied by the usual sad/angry face compo picture!!!

You're on the wrong website. Try the Daily Mail!

 

[d9009alycidon]

Can you share any details or link to the other forum? Likewise I don't believe this at all, and why were they going on a jolly during a global pandemic? I hate parents who justify their children's bad behaviour by using their youth as an excuse. Not all of us did such silly things when young...

It is on the Scot-Rail forum, as I said the poster has said there is more to it but has not divulged any details (possibly member of staff not wanting trouble)

 

[Horizon22]

I imagine late at night there wouldn't be many staff around at the station. There'd be a driver, conductor (if not DOO) and possibly station staff. Ultimately the train would be locked up and a thorough check would have to be completed - if this was done and CCTV shows it being done thoroughly and the kids were hiding (its still pretty hard), then no harm done. However, any time I've locked up a train, if you do it properly, its impossible not to find someone on-board. As others have suggested there is perhaps more to it than this, unless we accept the fact that staff possibly weren't doing a thorough check.

The fact they were two 12-year old kids is somewhat irrelevant - passengers were left locked on a train which is normally a formal letter at least to the responsible staff member (if all confirmed). I've seen it happen a handful of times where drunks end up at the depot and a stern email is sent to management the following morning to investigate.

 

[Diplodicus]

Two 12yo playing on the railway mid-evening with no parental supervision during COVID restrictions.

in the current climate, I regret that I would not approach them directly but would find platform staff to investigate.

speculation doesn’t help here. As a parent and grandparent such comments give us railnerds a poor reputation.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

There is alot more to this story than the press and mother are making out, not least of which the train spent an hour being cleaned by several people on arrival at Helensburgh and they weren't spotted. Somethings not adding up here.

After an initial read through I later realised an unanswered point was around end of day cleaning of the set but you have answered that one.

Also, given the enclosed nature of Helensburgh Central it is difficult to imagine how they could have alerted a passer by - unless that passer by was a member of staff or a passenger making their way to board a morning train, in either case on the platform as there is no street to train visibility.

 

[Geordie driver]

Their story has more holes in it than my underpants, it's worth a look at the mothers Facebook page for her version of how everyone else is to blame.

 

[IslandDweller]

"The vast majority of people that use north Clyde services at this point in time are either junkies, alkies or kids"
Pardon my french but that is rubbish. I'm on these services multiple times per week (essential travel to medical appointments). The trains are busier than I'd expected, especially when schools kick out (when the trains are full of kids). I haven't seen a single passenger matching the description of "alkie or junkier" on any of the trains I've used in 2021.
In the past year, I've never seen a staff member walk through any service on the Argyll line trains.
If they had gone to Central (easy to do with a same platform change at Partick or Hyndland) then the ticket barriers are in a horrid little connecting tunnel, not at the end of the platform.
Of course the kids should not have done this but kids do daft things and I don't think (from what we've heard so far) that this was handled as it should have been. It's entirely possible that they realised what a mess they'd got themselves into and panicked, and so made 'irrational' decisions about where to change or where to sit/hide on the train.

 

[Glenn1969]

My thought is what were they doing out on their own for that length of time in a pandemic? So the parents need to take at least some of the blame surely ?

 

[awsnews]

After an initial read through I later realised an unanswered point was around end of day cleaning of the set but you have answered that one.

Also, given the enclosed nature of Helensburgh Central it is difficult to imagine how they could have alerted a passer by - unless that passer by was a member of staff or a passenger making their way to board a morning train, in either case on the platform as there is no street to train visibility.

Wouldn't have been a passenger for the morning train in this instance, no service between Helensburgh and Dalmuir for the whole weekend. The station, as you point out is fairly enclosed, and unless something has changed is locked up overnight. There is limited visibility of the trains through the vehicle gates alongside platform 1 and that appears to be the platform used by the last arrival of the day.

 

[InOban]

I suspect that many of the people criticising the mother are the same people who look back nostalgically to a time when the kids were sent out to play in the morning and told to return for their tea. Indeed it would not surprise me if the trainspotting hobby of some posters started in that way.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I suspect the girls little adventure is partly true and partly a cover up of what they were really doing. It is possible they were at the barriers at either central or Queen Street attempting to leave the station having not paid and this is where they have met the staff member who has let them through but told them not to come back. They have likely attempted to return to the station later when barriers were still in operation so didn't approach the staff, then tried again later when barriers had been lifted. They have then boarded a different train in error possibly as a rest of confusion on the island platform.

Parents should always teach children the emergency contact alternative is to reverse charge off a payphone, or find an official person (police, station staff or shop staff) for help.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Parents should always teach children the emergency contact alternative is to reverse charge off a payphone, or find an official person (police, station staff or shop staff) for help.

There really aren't many payphones left now & not everyone has a landline now either (you can only reverse charge call from payphones to landlines). Most 12 year olds have a mobile anyway.
They claim to have had contact with station staff at the barrier, I suspect the real issue is that we haven't been told the whole story.

 

[scotraildriver]

Following CCTV review a press release will be made shortly. As expected the girls and mothers version of events was somewhat fanciful. I suspect the mother is about to seriously regret going to the press.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Isn’t there a massive gap in the timeline here?

The mother’s original Facebook post says “last seen on a train at 2pm” which puts the kids in Glasgow at 3ish. Even if that’s not right, she said she was “not there when she went to collect her at 7pm”, so even if she’d only left Balloch at 6ish she’d be in Glasgow by 7. Where did they go before they ended up going to Helensburgh? Riding up and down for a few hours?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn’t there a massive gap in the timeline here?

The mother’s original Facebook post says “last seen on a train at 2pm” which puts the kids in Glasgow at 3ish. Even if that’s not right, she said she was “not there when she went to collect her at 7pm”, so even if she’d only left Balloch at 6ish she’d be in Glasgow by 7. Where did they go before they ended up going to Helensburgh? Riding up and down for a few hours?

To be fair I did that as a kid a few times. I have a definite memory of ringing up National Rail Enquiries* to ask for fares on Ormskirk-Preston to see how much it cost from Aughton Park to each stop to work out what I could do with the pocket money I had to hand. I think it was Croston and back in the end. I was probably a source of amusement to the person on the other end of the phone.

* Actually it was probably back when you rang Rail House, Liverpool (0151 709 9696), before they set up NRES and ruined it

 

[Ianno87]

Isn’t there a massive gap in the timeline here?

The mother’s original Facebook post says “last seen on a train at 2pm” which puts the kids in Glasgow at 3ish. Even if that’s not right, she said she was “not there when she went to collect her at 7pm”, so even if she’d only left Balloch at 6ish she’d be in Glasgow by 7. Where did they go before they ended up going to Helensburgh? Riding up and down for a few hours?

To be fair I did that as a kid a few times. I have a definite memory of ringing up National Rail Enquiries* to ask for fares on Ormskirk-Preston to see how much it cost from Aughton Park to each stop to work out what I could do with the pocket money I had to hand. I think it was Croston and back in the end. I was probably a source of amusement to the person on the other end of the phone.

* Actually it was probably back when you rang Rail House, Liverpool (0151 709 9696), before they set up NRES and ruined it

I know in Greater Manchester, Stagecoach stopped selling Child dayriders apparently because of youth buying them and just sitting riding back and forth on the bus all day (and in that case causing trouble at the same time)