Travelcard for a return journey starting in London

[martino]

Am I correct in thinking that travelcards are only available as returns into London and not out of London? Are you permitted to use the travelcard portion of the ticket before you have made the outward journey?

I would like to make a return journey from St Pancras to Radlett on Saturday, with a Network Railcard, plus several tube and bus journeys in zones 1 and 2 both before and afterwards (probably enough to reach the daily cap on PAYG).

Should I use a Radlett travelcard (£7.90, super off peak) plus Boundary Zone 6-Radlett (£2.20, anytime single)?

As an aside, why is the anytime BZ6-Radlett cheaper than the super off peak?

 

[LexyBoy]

Am I correct in thinking that travelcards are only available as returns into London and not out of London?

Correct.

Are you permitted to use the travelcard portion of the ticket before you have made the outward journey?

A good question - I am not sure TBH but the fact that the Travelcard element remains valid after the use of the return leg suggests that it may be.

I would like to make a return journey from St Pancras to Radlett on Saturday, with a Network Railcard, plus several tube and bus journeys in zones 1 and 2 both before and afterwards (probably enough to reach the daily cap on PAYG).

Should I use a Radlett travelcard (£7.90, super off peak) plus Boundary Zone 6-Radlett (£2.20, anytime single)?

If you're starting in St Pancras, either that or the reverse (Radlett-BZ6) would be valid. If you're using the Travelcard before starting out to Radlett, it would be safer to use a Radlett-BZ6 ticket (forfeiting the outward portion) unless it is established that one may use the Travelcard before the "rail" journey.

As an aside, why is the anytime BZ6-Radlett cheaper than the super off peak?

Anytime (Day) Singles are usually roughly half the price of a return; (Super) Off Peak (Day) tickets are usually priced as the return but it was decided some years ago that corresponding singles should be available, so many such singles were created at 10p less than the return.

 

[Deerfold]

Am I correct in thinking that travelcards are only available as returns into London and not out of London? Are you permitted to use the travelcard portion of the ticket before you have made the outward journey?

I would like to make a return journey from St Pancras to Radlett on Saturday, with a Network Railcard, plus several tube and bus journeys in zones 1 and 2 both before and afterwards (probably enough to reach the daily cap on PAYG).

Should I use a Radlett travelcard (£7.90, super off peak) plus Boundary Zone 6-Radlett (£2.20, anytime single)?

As an aside, why is the anytime BZ6-Radlett cheaper than the super off peak?

As far I as I can tell, you can use the Travelcard before you travel to Radlett but you cannot then use the portion to return to the zones as you'd be using the outward portion after the return - you'd need a Radlett to BZ6 ticket (so the other way round to the way you've suggested) or a return to Radlett on top of Oyster in Zones 1 and 2.

 

[Tetchytyke]

As far as I can tell, an outboundary Travelcard is essentially two products on one ticket: a Z1-6 Travelcard, and a origin to BZ6 day return. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use the Travelcard element before using the day return element.

However you wouldn't be able to return from Radlett to BZ6 using this ticket, as you cannot use the outbound portion after the return portion.

You may be wiser buying a separate Z1-6 Travelcard (which you can get a Network Railcard discount on if bought at a National Rail station) and a BZ6-Radlett return. This would only be about £1 more than a Radlett Travelcard + Radlett to BZ6 single, and would prevent any arguments.

 

[button_boxer]

As far I as I can tell, you can use the Travelcard before you travel to Radlett but you cannot then use the portion to return to the zones as you'd be using the outward portion after the return

In the OP's original suggestion at the point where they leave Radlett heading towards London they have made no use of either half of the out-boundary validity on the travelcard, since they used a different ticket (BZ6-Radlett) to make their earlier journey. In fact they don't intend to use the return portion at all.

 

[martino]

Thanks LexyBoy and Deerfold for pointing out that I could use the return portion of the travelcard to get to Radlett then a Radlett-BZ6 to come back. I don't know why I had not thought of that.

To Arctic Troll and Deerfold, I am a bit confused about what you said as in my original plan I was not planning to use the return portion of the Radlett travelcard at all, just as my journey St Pancras-Radlett would use the travelcard out to BZ6 then a BZ6-Radlett ticket to get out to Radlett. Then I would use the outward portion of the Radlett travelcard to come back to London.

And thanks Arctic Troll for mentioning that I can get a Network Railcard discount on a plain Z1-6 Travelcard. I suppose that this is the same as buying a Radlett travelcard and using neither of the Radlett parts of it.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Sorry, it appeared that you were attempting to travel London-Radlett-London on a Radlett travelcard. This is not permitted.

If you are finishing your travels at Radlett, then I think you'd be fine using a Radlett travelcard all the way.

If you are returning into London from Radlett later in the day, either you'd need to buy a Radlett-BZ6 single on the way back or- and this may be a better option- buy a separate Z1-6 Travelcard and a BZ6-Radlett day return.

 

[LexyBoy]

Surely one could use an additional single in either direction?
BZ6-Radlett - the outward portion of the Radlett Travelcard is used and the return remains unused
Radlett-BZ6 - the return portion of the Radlett Travelcard is used, forefeiting the outward

I would not use an inboundary Travelcard + BZ6 return if it costs more (no surprises there after the massive hike in price) when OP's original suggestion is valid. I can't see any issues likely to arise - especially using the BZ6-Radlett as originally proposed which would avoid the Travelcard being retained at the barrier.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'd consider the outbound part of the ticket to be deemed "used" when you use the Travelcard, and in any case using it that way around could very well appear to an RPI that the OP was attempting to use the ticket twice from Radlett to BZ6.

 

[Hadders]

Probably a bit late for the OP now but for simplicity I'd buy:

An in-boundary zones 1-6 travelcard (eg. Finsbury Park-London zones 1-6) £7.90
Boundary Zone 6 - Radlett super off peak day return £2.95
Total £10.85

This is 75p more expensive than the combination suggested by the OP in the original post but avoids the ambiguity over whether the travelcard expires upon arrival at Radlett.

 

[Deerfold]

Probably a bit late for the OP now but for simplicity I'd buy:

An in-boundary zones 1-6 travelcard (eg. Finsbury Park-London zones 1-6) £7.90
Boundary Zone 6 - Radlett super off peak day return £2.95
Total £10.85

This is 75p more expensive than the combination suggested by the OP in the original post but avoids the ambiguity over whether the travelcard expires upon arrival at Radlett.

I don't think anyone thinks the travelcard expires on arrival at Radlett - the OP may certainly use the Z1-6 part later. The problem is whether the journey from Radlett can be after the journey to Radlett. If the rules on this are the same as for a normal return then it cannot.

 

[Hadders]

I don't think anyone thinks the travelcard expires on arrival at Radlett - the OP may certainly use the Z1-6 part later. The problem is whether the journey from Radlett can be after the journey to Radlett. If the rules on this are the same as for a normal return then it cannot.

I don't believe the journey from Radlett can be after the one to Radlett.

I don't know Radlett station but if it's barriered then the travelcard would get swallowed up on arrival. I know you could ask to be let out but this could be problematic and mean having to have a robust conversation.

 

[Deerfold]

don't believe the journey from Radlett can be after the one to Radlett.

Agreed.

I don't know Radlett station but if it's barriered then the travelcard would get swallowed up on arrival. I know you could ask to be let out but this could be problematic and mean having to have a robust conversation.

This shouldn't happen. Especially if you already hold the Radlett-BZ6 ticket.

 

[button_boxer]

I don't think anyone thinks the travelcard expires on arrival at Radlett - the OP may certainly use the Z1-6 part later. The problem is whether the journey from Radlett can be after the journey to Radlett. If the rules on this are the same as for a normal return then it cannot.

No, the problem is whether the journey from Radlett to the boundary of zone 6 can be after the zonal travelcard has been used within the zones. There's never been any suggestion of trying to make the "outward" (Radlett to BZ6) journey after the "return" (BZ6 to Radlett) one.

 

[Deerfold]

No, the problem is whether the journey from Radlett to the boundary of zone 6 can be after the zonal travelcard has been used within the zones. There's never been any suggestion of trying to make the "outward" (Radlett to BZ6) journey after the "return" (BZ6 to Radlett) one.

Indeed, the problem is whether the trip to London can be after the travelcard has been used at all.

 

[button_boxer]

Indeed, the problem is whether the trip to London can be after the travelcard has been used at all.

If we take a genuine rather than a contrived example, suppose I lived on the 313 TfL bus route near Potters Bar. I would hope that it would be permitted to buy (in advance) a Potters Bar to London Zones 1-6 day travelcard and use it on the bus to reach Potters Bar railway station before commencing my out-boundary rail journey.

 

[Deerfold]

If we take a genuine rather than a contrived example, suppose I lived on the 313 TfL bus route near Potters Bar. I would hope that it would be permitted to buy (in advance) a Potters Bar to London Zones 1-6 day travelcard and use it on the bus to reach Potters Bar railway station before commencing my out-boundary rail journey.

Whilst that would seem to be a perfectly reasonable thing to do, I have no idea if it's allowed.

Published conditions for Travelcards seem to not cover such cases.

 

[Starmill]

Whilst that would seem to be a perfectly reasonable thing to do, I have no idea if it's allowed.

Published conditions for Travelcards seem to not cover such cases.

I find no evidence to suggest it isn't allowed - and it doesn't contravene any of the Ts and Cs to do so, so I am forced to conclude...

If you'd only used it on a bus, there'd be no way anyone would know anyway!

But what about a +Watford Junction travelcard on sale at an Underground machine?

 

[MikeWh]

But what about a +Watford Junction travelcard on sale at an Underground machine?

Now that's a completely different thing. I believe that they are valid for multiple trips as far as Watford Junction and back, just like the Oyster/CPC caps offer.

 

[martino]

In the end I travelled Euston to Watford Junction, used private transport between Watford Junction and Radlett, then returned from Radlett to St Pancras. For tickets I used a Radlett travelcard and a BZ6-Watford Junction single. So the same issue as my original plan of whether it was valid to use the travelcard for part of the journey to Watford Junction before using its "outward" journey from Radlett.

Radlett has no barriers and I encountered no RPIs so the only time I had to physically produce my travelcard was at barriers inside the zones and on buses.

It did occur to me that if Radlett had had barriers, they might have refused to let me in as I had already used the ticket in the barrier at Euston. If this had happened I would have discussed my itinerary with gateline staff and if they told me it was not valid, I would have bought a Radlett-BZ6 single.

 

[LexyBoy]

It did occur to me that if Radlett had had barriers, they might have refused to let me in as I had already used the ticket in the barrier at Euston.

I don't think the barrier would reject the ticket. If the date and station is valid, it should open the barriers - they don't check where & when it last went through a barrier, except to prevent passbacks, AFAIAA.

I'd consider the outbound part of the ticket to be deemed "used" when you use the Travelcard

That seems to be at odds with your earlier assessment, unless I'm missing something? :confused:

As far as I can tell, an outboundary Travelcard is essentially two products on one ticket: a Z1-6 Travelcard, and a origin to BZ6 day return. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use the Travelcard element before using the day return element.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That seems to be at odds with your earlier assessment, unless I'm missing something? :confused:

Possibly bad phrasing on my part.

My point was more that you can't use the outbound part after the return part. Therefore if you've used the Travelcard plus return part to come out to Radlett then you can't use it to go back into London. And trying to do it could well end up looking like you're attempting to use the ticket twice.

 

[island]

It did occur to me that if Radlett had had barriers, they might have refused to let me in as I had already used the ticket in the barrier at Euston. If this had happened I would have discussed my itinerary with gateline staff and if they told me it was not valid, I would have bought a Radlett-BZ6 single.

More troublesome would have been the ticket being retained in the barriers on the outbound journey, had they existed.