• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Trivia: Gauge Conversion.

Status
Not open for further replies.

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,906
Edit - fairbourne mentioned by op
Launceston steam railway on former SR trackbed
Gartell Light Railway over section of former S&D trackbed
Bala Lake railway on trackbed of GWR
Welsh Highland railway 1964 on former S/G siding
Llanberis Lake railway 2' on former 4' Padarn railway

The Tallyllyn railway was originally built half an inch wider than its nominal gauge of 2ft 3in (for reasons too complicated to explain here), and it was narrowed to its nominal size after preservation, when locos from other 2ft 3in lines kept falling off the rails. See:n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talyllyn_Railway#Rescue:_1951–1960
What happened was that owing to the rough riding of Talyyllyn, a trailing axle was added, and the gauge widened on certain curves as a result. The problem loco was no 3 with its narrower tyre treads, no 4 coped with the track which was in such a state that for example, with certain rails as the train ran onto one end, the other would leap into the air
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,929
Location
Nottingham
Not mentioend so far is the FC de Langreo in Spain. This runs from Gijon to the Langreo area. It was the only standard gauge line in Spain.
Off topic but to correct any misconception, that isn't true if you include metros. According to Wikipedia Madrid Metro is to the gauge of 1445mm, which probably counts as standard to within the tolerances of wheel profile. Barcelona has routes of Spanish, standard and metre gauges. There are also various standard gauge tramway or "light metro" routes.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,929
Location
Nottingham
Stuttgart re-gauged their tram network, leaving only a heritage route. Lots of mixed gauge when I visited in 1997, including an interlaced section which was something to behold.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
Not mentioend so far is the FC de Langreo in Spain. This runs from Gijon to the Langreo area. It was the only standard gauge line in Spain. Originally an independent company, it was absorbed by FEVE in 1973 and converted to metre gauge in 1983.

[ also renowned for have passenger service on an inclined plane, until that section was bypassed by a long tunnel in the 1960s ]

I had liked the Langreo from way back (never visited first-hand, alas), thanks to its oddities as mentioned; but had totally forgotten about its conversion to metre gauge. Having been in recent decades, out of touch with such matters; I'd been imagining that it had been either converted to Spanish broad gauge, or abandoned. Looking at back copies of the -- mourned by many -- quarterly Continental Railway Journal ("deceased" 2013), which usually gave good coverage of Spanish rail news: I see that the Journal did indeed at the time, report on the Langreo line's 1983 "metricising" -- I would thus have been aware of it then, but plainly, forgot subsequently.

In the post-WW2 era some of the Polish narrow gauge lines had their gauge changed, in what I think may have been an attempt at standardization. For example the system of which the Środa-Zaniemyśl line* formed part was converted from metre gauge to 750 mm in the early 1950s.

*(which some people may have heard of because it remained steam-worked until the beginning of the 21st century).

"Attempt at standardization" -- that's been my understanding: early-ish in the Communist era, the Polish state railways did intend to establish a "sub-standard" 750mm gauge, converting thereto at any rate the majority of their lines of other narrow gauges; but that didn't come to pass anything like fully. The Sroda system and a couple of metre-gauge lines elsewhere, were 750-ised; however, two -- large-ish -- metre-gauge systems, in different respective parts of the country, remained metre-gauge "lifelong". As at 1945, Poland also had a lot of 600mm gauge: a large amount of which was converted to 750mm -- some half-dozen lines / systems, though, never were thus converted, and remained 600mm "lifelong". So far as I'm aware, the only such 600mm survivor today is the preserved line -- about 20km long IIRC -- at Znin.


Parts of the world where much gauge-widening has happened: are in the western USA, and south thereof. In the states of Colorado and Utah, many lines were inaugurated from about the 1870s onward, under the Denver & Rio Grande "parent" undertaking, on the 3ft. gauge: but were subsequently changed to standard gauge -- if I have things rightly, some parts on the same roadbed, others on new alignment close by. (A part of the D & RG system was never "standard-gauged", remaining 3ft. throughout -- a couple of [substantial] portions thereof, are active today, and steam-worked, run by preservation undertakings.) Things often went similarly -- in fact to a greater extent thus -- in Mexico: as at the beginning in the 1880s of railways in that country, a number of main lines were inaugurated on the 3ft gauge, in the interests of economy and ease of construction; but with the intention from the first, of altering them to standard gauge as and when that became feasible.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,693
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Spain is in the "mixed gauge" phase of converting some lines to standard gauge.
All lines (outside the genuine narrow gauge ones, mainly in the north) were once Iberian gauge.
But the new high speed lines were built as standard gauge (and with 25kv AC rather then 3kV DC).
So at the interfaces they have installed gauge changers in most places so that bi-gauge stock can run through from one gauge to the other.
But in some places they have chosen to dual-gauge the route instead.
And in Galicia, the high-speed lines were opened with Iberian gauge, but will be re-gauged to standard when the main high-speed route from Madrid is connected.
I think the planned high-speed line to Portugal via Badajos is like that too, and will be re-gauged (or dualled) in due course.
Stretches of line in the Basque and Mediterranean corridors are or will be eventually dual-gauged.

The Baltic states have been covered, but Poland has a complex gauge history, starting from railway construction during its partitioned period before 1918.
Lines in the Russian part (except the "Vienna" line and its connections) were built broad gauge, while German/Austrian parts were built standard gauge.
Lines were re-gauged in both world wars to suit the advancing military, then restored by Poland afterwards in its then territory (which changed radically after WW2).
Thus eastern Galicia (around Lviv, Ukraine today) was re-gauged multiple times over 40 years or so, ending up broad gauge in the Soviet world.
To complicate matters, Poland still has a 400km broad gauge freight line from the Ukrainian border to Katowice to feed the steel works there with Ukrainian ore.

Australia has gone for a big programme of dual-gauging, with NSW standard gauge being added to main lines in both Victoria and South Australia (built broad gauge), and also in Queensland and Western Australia (built narrow gauge).
The "Ghan" (Adelaide-Darwin) route was originally built narrow gauge north to Alice Springs, while the route south from Darwin was built later in standard gauge.
The southern section has been completely rebuilt on a largely new and shorter alignment, in standard gauge, so the Ghan is now coast to coast on standard gauge.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
A couple of "widening" instances, though overall fairly trivial; Spain again: a rival, one feels, with Sweden, for the title of world's most -- subsequent to railways' early days -- multi-gauge, context public railways, country. The 3 ft. (914mm) gauge -- extremely rare for public railways in the Old World outside of the British Isles -- had a small presence in Spain. Chiefly on the island of Mallorca: whose at max. considerable system, inaugurated latish-19th century, was for long all 914mm (started up under aegis of British enterprise). In the late 20th century, things worked out so that approximately half of Mallorca's rail system was closed down: but as from early 1980s, new enterprise revived and modernised some of the island's main system, but on metre-gauge, replacing 914mm -- part of the main-line stem, regauged "on the spot"; "more-outer" sections had closed, but were reopened on the new gauge. The only 914mm now remaining on Mallorca, is the -- always independent, and electric unlike the island's other lines -- Palma to Soller railway, plus its connecting electric tram route from Soller station, to the town and port.

Mainland Spain had for a time, one 914mm gauge line: the Bidasoa Railway, from ("fine details" elude me at present, absent lengthy rummaging through journal back-numbers) approx. Irun just on Spanish side of Bay of Biscay French / Spanish border, south-east to Pamplona and a little way beyond: opened late 19th century, 914mm gauge until 1916, when converted to metre gauge; abandoned mid-1950s.
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,440
Location
Up the creek
One of the odder lines was the 1093 mm gauge Köping-Uttersberg-Riddarhyttans Järnväg. It is believed that the first section of the line was intended to be built to 1067 mm (3’ 6”) gauge, which was interpreted as 3.59 Swedish feet (actually 1066 mm). When clarifying the gauge for the builder of the locos, the gauge appears to have been taken from the centre line of each rail, which came out at 1094 mm (3.59 Imperial feet). After the locos arrived, it was cheaper to widen the (track) gauge and alter the wagons than to rebuild the locos.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
One of the odder lines was the 1093 mm gauge Köping-Uttersberg-Riddarhyttans Järnväg. It is believed that the first section of the line was intended to be built to 1067 mm (3’ 6”) gauge, which was interpreted as 3.59 Swedish feet (actually 1066 mm). When clarifying the gauge for the builder of the locos, the gauge appears to have been taken from the centre line of each rail, which came out at 1094 mm (3.59 Imperial feet). After the locos arrived, it was cheaper to widen the (track) gauge and alter the wagons than to rebuild the locos.

Ah, yes, Swedish gauge-craziness -- Bryan Morgan in The End Of The Line -- writing briefly, with approving interest, of Sweden (though essentially he never got there): mentions the country's many strange and seemingly arbitrary gauges; including 1093/4mm.

"How exactly to measure the gauge", has over time, thrown up a problem or two. One gathers that Italy's "sub-standard" 950mm gauge: was originally intended to be the European "regulation" metre gauge -- but various twits measured wrongly, not between the accepted standardised points on the rail, for the purpose (I'm not clear as to what is standardised same); and it ended up with the arrived-at "wrong" result, being stuck with: humans do tend to be stupid, and stubborn; and I'm sure we ourselves can be thus more -- in the areas in which we function -- than we'd like to think.



A "gauge-alteration" episode which has always intrigued me: on the Indonesian island of Java. Beginning in the 19th century, under Dutch colonial rule; Java's dense and intricate rail system grew up with two different gauges co-existing -- standard, and 3 ft. 6 in. (1067mm). It wasn't a case of one gauge's ousting the other, being envisaged; or lines of one gauge being seen as "feeders" to those of the other: the two systems served a fair number of the same places, and complemented and / or competed with each other, accordingly. I've read accounts by Dutch people resident in Java in their childhood, in the 1930s / early 1940s -- the two-gauges set-up comes across there, as having been a fascinating one. It ended with the Japanese occupation of that part of the world in 1942 -- 45; the Japanese were quick to knock this nonsense on the head, and convert all the standard-gauge lines to 1067mm: Java had rather more of that gauge, than the wider one, and Japan's own railways were -- largely still are -- 1067mm. From that time on, Java's public railways have been a uniform 1067mm gauge -- with a few short lines of narrower gauges than 1067mm, though it is to be suspected that none of those now remain as sections in public service.
 
Last edited:

jumble

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2011
Messages
1,114
Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in infrastructure, but plumped for here.

The history of the (old) GWR converting a large portion of the network from broad gauge to standard gauge over a weekend is well documented, but outside of that can anyone think of other railways (either closed, preserved, or still in commercial operation) which have undergone a change of gauge in the past?
The only ones that spring to mind are Clayton West (closed as standard gauge in 1983, reopened as 15" in 1991) and the Fairbourne Railway (originally 2' gauge, reduced to 15" in 1916; closed in 1940; reopened at 15" in 1947, further reduced to 12¼" in 1986).

Bonus points for lines that converted to a wider gauge, rather than reducing down as per the examples above.

Over in Europe The Swiss are in the process of converting the Waldenburger Bahn from 750mm to 1000mm
( EDIT I see someone has already mentioned this)
I visited a few years ago
The Swiss being Swiss sold the stock on to Čierny Hron Railway in Slovakia rather than scrapping it
The Germans converted the Harz from Standard to 1000mm between Quedlinburg and Gernrode
 

etr221

Member
Joined
10 Mar 2018
Messages
1,054
"How exactly to measure the gauge", has over time, thrown up a problem or two. One gathers that Italy's "sub-standard" 950mm gauge: was originally intended to be the European "regulation" metre gauge -- but various twits measured wrongly, not between the accepted standardised points on the rail, for the purpose (I'm not clear as to what is standardised same); and it ended up with the arrived-at "wrong" result, being stuck with: humans do tend to be stupid, and stubborn; and I'm sure we ourselves can be thus more -- in the areas in which we function -- than we'd like to think.
The story behind Italian narrow gauge was that it was 1 metre between rail centre lines - apparently this was a French convention of the period (under which their standard gauge was 1.5 metres). Normal convention is to meaure guge between the inner, running, edges of the rails - which led to the Italian n.g being respecified as 95cm. And - something not mentioned - French (and French influenced) standard guge was repecified as 1445 mm (from 1500 between centre lines); and more recently (from the 1930s?) changed to genuine standard guge of 1435mm over the years...

Similarly the Soviets/Russians (but not I think the Finns) changed their nominal gauge from 1524 to 1520 mm. And I think elsewhere there have similar tightenings of nominal standards.

The Ottoman (and successor states) 105 cm ng I think started when a concession was granted specifying a gauge 'greater than metre' (intended to mean 'standard'), and then taken fairly literally...
 

Shaw S Hunter

Established Member
Joined
21 Apr 2016
Messages
2,953
Location
Sunny South Lancs
I understand that Russia, at the beginning of its railway age, chose its broad gauge (1520 / 1524mm = 5 feet) so as to make things more difficult for potential invaders from further west. It would rather seem -- re the above post, and many other indications concerning the World Wars -- to have made too little difference, to have been worth bothering with !

Modern historians would say that you understand incorrectly. It is something of a cliche to say that the Nazis were defeated by the severity of the Russian winter but the inability to keep the front-line adequately supplied was equally problematic, especially when you consider their preference for much heavier tanks than their foes: these guzzled fuel at a prodigious rate.

Australia used to be a hotch potch, much has changed so the country now has a standard gauge core system (including bits in both WA and SA from 3'6" to standard)

Australia has gone for a big programme of dual-gauging, with NSW standard gauge being added to main lines in both Victoria and South Australia (built broad gauge), and also in Queensland and Western Australia (built narrow gauge).
The "Ghan" (Adelaide-Darwin) route was originally built narrow gauge north to Alice Springs, while the route south from Darwin was built later in standard gauge.
The southern section has been completely rebuilt on a largely new and shorter alignment, in standard gauge, so the Ghan is now coast to coast on standard gauge.

While Australia is now well connected by standard gauge the state of Victoria remains a significant outlier thanks to its very well used suburban and regional network around Melbourne, all on Victorian Gauge of 5'3" (ie same as Ireland). There is no possibility of this network ever being converted. However in the west of the state is a number of lightly used lines with little or no passenger service but which remain important for freight, especially agricultural produce. There is a long-term programme to convert most of these to either pure standard gauge or some form of dual gauge: as elsewhere in the state dual gauge can sometimes be two separate tracks or a single alignment of three-rail route. The driver for this is the increasing need to reduce the cost of inter-state freight: at present the inability to run through trains means some traffic heads south to the coast for onward movement by sea while some never gets on the rails at all as road haulage is more convenient. Thankfully the modernisation that investment allows will see an overall increase in passenger services in the area as some lines return to passenger use. Mixed gauge will continue to be a feature in VIC going forward.
 

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,906
FCAB, Antofagasta in Chile to La Paz in Bolivia. Must be amoung the longest
The Chilean section, 924 km long was built to 2'6", while the Bolivian section, some 220km was constructed to metre.
The border town of Oruro became an exchange point, with the ability to exchange wagon bogies.
It was decided to convert the Chilean section to metre with exception of a few branch lines
The decision was taken in 1913, delayed by WW1, most of the work carried out in 1928

Also in 2006, it was decided to convert the 3' line from Huancayo to Huancavelica to standard gauge and make it part of the Central Railway of Peru
This was completed in 2010
 
Last edited:

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
The Germans converted the Harz from Standard to 1000mm between Quedlinburg and Gernrode

Could be seen as slightly special circumstances: DB abandoned in 2004, the Frose -- Gernrode -- Quedlinburg branch (connecting at Gernrode, with the Harzer Schmalspurbahnen metre-gauge system at easternmost extremity of same). The HS, rather than be left finishing at an ex-junction in the middle of nowhere, acquired the 9 km. from Gernrode to Quedlinburg (this latter on a still-active DB passenger route, and a considerable tourist-trap in its own right), re-gauged it to metre, and incorporated it in its system.


The story behind Italian narrow gauge was that it was 1 metre between rail centre lines - apparently this was a French convention of the period (under which their standard gauge was 1.5 metres). Normal convention is to meaure guge between the inner, running, edges of the rails - which led to the Italian n.g being respecified as 95cm. And - something not mentioned - French (and French influenced) standard guge was repecified as 1445 mm (from 1500 between centre lines); and more recently (from the 1930s?) changed to genuine standard guge of 1435mm over the years...

Similarly the Soviets/Russians (but not I think the Finns) changed their nominal gauge from 1524 to 1520 mm. And I think elsewhere there have similar tightenings of nominal standards.

The Ottoman (and successor states) 105 cm ng I think started when a concession was granted specifying a gauge 'greater than metre' (intended to mean 'standard'), and then taken fairly literally...

Thanks for above info -- clarifying things, or with perhaps a quasi-clarifying element ! -- seemingly, not just the Italians: different nations having different conventions re "measuring from where to where"...

Thank you for the "5 ft." detail -- I've long had it in mind that there are the 1520mm, and 1524mm, interpretations: one applied in pre-Revolutionary Russia. and the other adopted by the USSR after the Revolution; whilst Finland kept to the old version -- but I have great difficulty remembering which was which ! Your post does the biz for me there ...

There's the oddity that there was the Ottoman 1050mm gauge as mentioned -- principally on their Hedjaz system; whereas the "sub-standard" gauge in Algeria, used for "back-country" lines (a little over 1000km. of such, reckoned still active today) is just a fraction wider -- 1055mm. How come the extra five millimetres?? With it being Algeria, one could wonder whether French influence as per your post -- thus French measuring -- had something to do with it.


Modern historians would say that you understand incorrectly. It is something of a cliche to say that the Nazis were defeated by the severity of the Russian winter but the inability to keep the front-line adequately supplied was equally problematic, especially when you consider their preference for much heavier tanks than their foes: these guzzled fuel at a prodigious rate.

Will freely admit that Max Hastings or Antony Beevor, I ain't ...
 

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,906
Southend Pier Railway 3' 6" to 3', although closed 1978-1986
Fayle's tramway, Norden 3' 9" to 2'
 

plugwash

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2015
Messages
1,563
IIRC when the welsh highland railway was rebuilt they extended the railway onto a former standard gauge route.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,092
Although Australia makes much of its gauge conversion to standard, it seems to impact little other than the trunk interstate routes between the major cities. The mainstream networks in those states other than NSW still retain their former specification. I don't think outside the established NSW system there are any double track standard gauge lines, services are notably thin, and what there is almost wholly freight.

In Britain several lines that ended up in other than the GWR were built to Broad Gauge. The Bristol & Gloucester was merged into the Midland, but remained broad gauge for several years, and likewise Exeter to Barnstaple, that ended up with the LSWR.
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
3,469
Location
Glasgow
Although Australia makes much of its gauge conversion to standard, it seems to impact little other than the trunk interstate routes between the major cities. The mainstream networks in those states other than NSW still retain their former specification.
In fairness the entire point of the core standardisation project was to create those trunk interstate routes and those routes only, because it was viewed by a succession of Federal Government as being important to the promotion of interstate commerce. In fact the very first piece of the network, the Trans-Australian Railway linking the west coast with the east, was built wholly with federal funding because it was (in effect) a campaign promise to entice the then-colony of Western Australia into joining the new Commonwealth.

Over time (and through a number of organisational changes) the federal government extended the initial Trans-Australia line to Perth by building a standard-gauge line that paralleled the existing Eastern Goldfields Railway, and in 1970 it became possible for one train to go from Sydney to Perth without a break of gauge. Melbourne was then joined from both sides - the Main South line from Sydney to the Victorian border at Albury was extended to Melbourne by building a standard-gauge line parallel to the existing North East broad-gauge Melbourne-Albury line, and a standard-gauge Melbourne-Adelaide link (that connected to the Trans-Australia line) was established by building a parallel line from Melbourne to North Geelong and then converting from broad gauge the existing North Geelong-Ararat-Adelaide line.

Meanwhile the Sydney-Brisbane link had already been accomplished by the NSW Government extending the North Coast line on a new alignment north from Grafton in 1932, which joined with and dual-gauged the existing Queensland Government narrow-gauge line not far south of Brisbane. This meant it was not necessary to address the break-of-gauge at the Queensland border on the earlier Main North line, and the northern portion of this line was abandoned by the NSW Government in the early 1990s.

In more recent times this has coalesced into the all-standard-gauge Defined Interstate Rail Network, which is technically owned by several different state-level bodies but is uniformly administered by the Australian Rail Track Corporation.

The shift in focus on freight connectivity is understandable given how thoroughly long-distance passenger traffic was eviscerated by airlines.

I don't think outside the established NSW system there are any double track standard gauge lines...
This in particular has changed in the last 15-odd years - the aforementioned Sydney-Melbourne link was converted from one-broad one-standard to double-track standard over a significant portion of its length in recognition of the fact that there was significantly higher demand for SG paths than BG. It has however had the adverse effect of causing the Victorian passenger operator V/Line to have to keep a small fleet of standard-gauge locomotives and coaches captive to the line in order to continue services to Albury.
 

d9009alycidon

Member
Joined
22 Jun 2011
Messages
842
Location
Eaglesham
Virtually the whole of the then Scottish network was built to non-standard gauges, with the majority being 4' - 6" "Scotch Gauge" see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_ft_6_in_gauge_railway the system was converted to standard gauge. The Monkland system of some 36 miles of railway and 12 miles of sidings, along with a further 48 miles of private railways was changed over two days on 26 July and 27 July 1847.
 

Fireless

Member
Joined
24 Mar 2018
Messages
103
Location
Europe (usually Germany)
The tram of Sofia was originally built in meter gauge and changed over to 1009mm gauge in the late 1920s as it was cheaper just to regauge the trams than fix the badly worn out track.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top