Trivia: Longest distance between any two London terminals?

[jopsuk]

if the rules are:
Nothing run, contracted by or licensed by TfL, or by any other local authority
No leaving stations

then that takes care of Overground and cabs...

And then it becomes interesting because:
If it is a weekday, then Fenchurch Street is isolated completely. On Weekdays C2C has no interchange whatsoever with non-TfL passenger rail services.
If it is a weekend, then Paddington-West Ruislip is not available as a link. But on a weekday it severely limits when you can travel anyway.
Liverpool Street to anything other than Fenchurch Street requires a trip to Cambridge
Kings Cross realistically means using Finsbury Park to change to Thameslink to go anywhere other than Cambridge for Liverpool Street.
St Pancras gets you the Marston Vale line, which gets you the West Coast Mainline into Euston, and also the west london Line to Clapham to connect to the Southern Region terminals, which you could also have got to from St pancras.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Spending the time saved in a pub.

A good point, well made!

 

[TheDavibob]

5 changes
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - St Pancras

6 changes
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Richmond - Highbury & Islington - Finsbury Park - Kings Cross

I'm getting a little carried away here now, but if the sole goal is minimising number of changes (which, admittedly, isn't what the question was originally asking for), we can do some utterly bizarre things, e.g.

Marylebone - Oxford/Leamington - Derby - St. Pancras
Marylebone - Oxford/Leamington - Leeds - Kings Cross

Of course, nothing approaching what the original question is asking. Cross Country slicing across mainlines gives similar routes for all stations from Waterloo to Kings Cross, save Victoria, going clockwise. It doesn't help much with Liverpool Street, except through:
Liverpool Street - Cambridge/Ely - Nuneaton/New Street - Euston

Cambridge *could* be avoided, with Liverpool Street - Norwich - Peterborough/Nottingham/Manchester Picc - Kings Cross/St P/Euston
but this gains you nothing in terms of changes over the comparatively trivial routes via Cambridge.

The utterly bizarre
Paddington - Gloucester - Cambridge - Liverpool Street
is technically possible, but is (a) only exists in one direction and (b) impossible to do in a single day.

 

[Captain Bigwig]

Excluding the Underground and Overground you can get from Fenchurch Street to Marylebone in just 8hrs 12 mins. Change at Barking, Stratford, Tottenham Hale, Stansted Airport, Cambridge, Birmingham New Street, and Leamington Spa. A bargain at only £98.70

I've found routes with fewer changes, or that cover fewer miles, but this is the fastest end to end time I've found between these two.

 

[satisnek]

Playing my Joker here, the North Downs Line, gets you 3 changes/4 trains.

King’s Cross-Finsbury Park-Redhill-Reading-Paddington

That also gets you Marylebone-St. Pancras in 3 changes (Marylebone-Oxford-Reading-Redhill-St. Pancras)

Finsbury Park - Redhill??? Took me a while to work that one out even when looking at the London route map - I really must keep up!

 

[Wolfie]

London Bridge to Victoria could be done through East Croydon, you don’t need to go all the way to Brighton.

Charing Cross to Waterloo/Victoria could be done via changes at London Bridge, East Croydon and (in the case of Waterloo) Clapham Junction, no need to be going anywhere near Portsmouth.

Depends if you include Waterloo East as part of Waterloo...

 

[Wolfie]

I don’t think you can logically disregard LO services given how much time we collectively expend justifying that it is part of the national rail network...

The East London line arguably is not - I understood that Network Rail refused to have anything to do with the former Underground tunnelled part and TfL led on all of the resignalling etc...

 

[swt_passenger]

The East London line arguably is not - I understood that Network Rail refused to have anything to do with the former Underground tunnelled part and TfL led on all of the resignalling etc...

That’s true. But they all became friends in the end and NR do the signalling anyway. Just struck me that when it comes to fares and stuff like conditions of travel we try and insist it IS part of the network...

 

[theageofthetra]

Bromley North- Marylebone would take some doing

 

[USBT]

i will get a cab.................

I’d walk.

Especially Cannon Street-Fenchurch Street (otherwise Cannon Street-New Cross-Highbury&Islington-Gospel Oak-Barking-Fenchurch Street).

And isn’t it great that Crossrail/Elizabeth Line (also officially National Rail) is delayed by a year. That will ruin a lot of these London trivia questions when it finally opens.

 

[USBT]

London Bridge to Victoria could be done through East Croydon, you don’t need to go all the way to Brighton.

Charing Cross to Waterloo/Victoria could be done via changes at London Bridge, East Croydon and (in the case of Waterloo) Clapham Junction, no need to be going anywhere near Portsmouth.

London Bridge to Victoria can be done direct with no changes, on the “outer loop” all stopper route. All stations via Sydenham, Crystal Palace, West Norwood, Streatham Hill and Balham.

As a result, Charing Cross/Waterloo East to Waterloo can be done with 2 changes (London Bridge and Clapham Junction). And Charing Cross/Waterloo East (and Cannon Street) to Victoria just one change at LBG.

 

[2HAP]

Charing Cross to Victoria via Ramsgate.

 

[Kite159]

Euston to Kings Cross with one change at Edinburgh

 

[Esker-pades]

Euston to Kings Cross with one change at Edinburgh

You laugh, but I have done that.

 

[Denzo]

You laugh, but I have done that.

I have too, albeit with a weekend in Edinburgh in between

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Only if you discount the daily service from Ruislip towards Paddington.

Depends what direction you're travelling in. The return working runs direct from Paddington to High Wycombe without stopping at South Ruislip.

And if you need the direct route, from Greenford West Jn to Old Oak Common West CP , parallel to the Central line, you had better get a move on as it closes on 10th December. The daily service will then be rerouted via South Greenford and Ealing Broadway.

 

[Kite159]

Depends what direction you're travelling in. The return working runs direct from Paddington to High Wycombe without stopping at South Ruislip.

And if you need the direct route, from Greenford West Jn to Old Oak Common West CP , parallel to the Central line, you had better get a move on as it closes on 10th December. The daily service will then be rerouted via South Greenford and Ealing Broadway.

Via South Greenford and into the West Ealing bay platform

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

perhaps the most ridiculous shortest distance would be between Kings Cross and St. Pancras... right next door to each other but to get between them by train would mean going via Peterborough and Leicester?

 

[Esker-pades]

perhaps the most ridiculous shortest distance would be between Kings Cross and St. Pancras... right next door to each other but to get between them by train would mean going via Peterborough and Leicester?

Finsbury Park.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Finsbury Park.

I forgot about the new Thameslink services... though tbh it would have to be Kings X- Finsbury Park- Kings X/ St Pancras Thameslink- Luton- St Pancras.... and it would probably be quicker to go via Peterborough and Leicester than rely on Thameslink services!

 

[amarshe]

Euston to Kings Cross with one change at Edinburgh

Euston to Inverness (sleeper); Inverness to King's Cross (LNER)
Admittedly the sleeper goes via Edinburgh...

 

[USBT]

I forgot about the new Thameslink services... though tbh it would have to be Kings X- Finsbury Park- Kings X/ St Pancras Thameslink- Luton- St Pancras.... and it would probably be quicker to go via Peterborough and Leicester than rely on Thameslink services!

St. Pancras Thameslink platforms are inside the main station. So KGX-FPL-STP is the route.

Before they opened (in 2007) yes the old King’s Cross Thameslink was separate to KGX and STP. It was connected via the tube station walkways but without that you needed to cross the road.

Before Thameslink went to Finsbury Park (and was still cut off between Blackfriars and London Bridge) the route would have been Kings Cross-Finsbury Park-Highbury & Islington-Denmark Hill-Blackfriars-St. Pancras, though IIRC there were some through trains from Denmark Hill to STP.

 

[philthetube]

Excluding the Underground and Overground you can get from Fenchurch Street to Marylebone in just 8hrs 12 mins. Change at Barking, Stratford, Tottenham Hale, Stansted Airport, Cambridge, Birmingham New Street, and Leamington Spa. A bargain at only £98.70

I've found routes with fewer changes, or that cover fewer miles, but this is the fastest end to end time I've found between these two.

that would be a collectors ticket.

 

[Kite159]

Euston to Inverness (sleeper); Inverness to King's Cross (LNER)
Admittedly the sleeper goes via Edinburgh...

And would normally mean a day in Inverness as the sleeper to Inverness misses the HST (normally passes in a loop between Carrbridge & Inverness).

You can do it the other way round with Kings Cross - Inverness on the HST then the sleeper to Euston the same day though

 

[higthomas]

A lot of these can be done in fewer changes. (Although probably slower in most cases.)

1 change
Marylebone - S Ruislip - Paddington

2 changes
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Waterloo
Marylebone - Leamington Spa - Coventry - Euston (1: Marylebone-Smethwick Galton Bridge-Euston)

4 changes
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Clapham Junction - Victoria (2: Marylebone-Oxford-Southampton-London Victoria)

5 changes
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - London Bridge
(2: Marylebone-Oxford-Southampton-London Bridge)
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - St Pancras (2: Marylebone-Oxford-Derby-St. Pancras)
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Richmond - Highbury & Islington - Moorgate

6 changes
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Richmond - Highbury & Islington - Finsbury Park - Kings Cross (2: Marylebone-Oxford-York-Kings Cross)
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Richmond - Gospel Oak - Barking - Fenchurch Street
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - London Bridge - Cannon Street (3: Marylebone-Oxford-Southampton-London Bridge-Cannon Street)
Marylebone - Oxford - Reading - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - London Bridge - Charing Cross(3: Marylebone-Oxford-Southampton-London Bridge-Charing Cross)

 

[HaggisBotherer]

If ever there was any proof needed that the internet is the playground for those with too much time on their hands and not enough to do to fill it...

 

[si404]

A lot of these can be done in fewer changes. (Although probably slower in most cases.)

Yes, and as the object of the exercise was speed, not changes...

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Via South Greenford and into the West Ealing bay platform

You're right Kite159 - thanks for pointing out the error. I've started a new thread in Infrastructure & Stations as that is a more appropriate place for discussing this closure.

 

[xotGD]

And would normally mean a day in Inverness as the sleeper to Inverness misses the HST (normally passes in a loop between Carrbridge & Inverness).

You can do it the other way round with Kings Cross - Inverness on the HST then the sleeper to Euston the same day though

Pick the right nights and you could do the sleeper both ways to get between Kings Cross and Euston. That leads to a whole new trivia topic: "Trains that you can see at more than one London terminus".

 

[Malcolmffc]

When Crossrail finally opens, some of these journeys will improve significantly. For example Paddington-St Pancras will become a one change journey via Farringdon.