TRIVIA - Longest distance with ONE bus ticket

[Ayman Ilham]

Some operators decline to take part in any kind of multi-operator ticket scheme. Ensign Bus are notorious for it, which is why there is no PlusBus in Thurrock, and there are others. Why would they take part in the scheme proposed here unless they were forced to?

Even if that could be overcome, would operators go for £10 a day when there are single tickets that cost more than that?

I think £20 a day would make more sense for such a ticket!

 

[Planesandtrain]

I think £20 a day would make more sense for such a ticket!

Or maybe different zones (similar to the Laender tickets in Germany) and an option to buy an all UK ticket.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ah, but what would the price be?

Back in the day Arriva did a UK-wide ticket for roughly double the price of their NE one. So double the cost of an NE explorer?

Speaking of which, it being valid on Carlisle city Stagecoach services is new (on me). Might have to have a trip out to the City of the Inbreeding next time I've a spare weekend.

 

[higthomas]

I must say that £1080.00 for a Trent Barton annual ticket seems very expensive. Especially considering that others are a lot cheaper. For example Arriva The Shires charge £900.00 for their annual ticket which covers an area stretching from Essex to Oxfordshire which is much larger than the Trent Barton area.

True, but to be honest those sorts of annual tickets are almost gimmick. People's buy an annual ticket to do one journey every day. Unless their journey is Oxford to Essex, that's not much better than the trent Barton ticket (£180 better to be precise)

 

[philthetube]

I think £20 a day would make more sense for such a ticket!

Very few would pay £20 a day for a ticket, enthusiasts excepted, even with todays fares that takes a lot of running up.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

True, but to be honest those sorts of annual tickets are almost gimmick. People's buy an annual ticket to do one journey every day. Unless their journey is Oxford to Essex, that's not much better than the trent Barton ticket (£180 better to be precise)

Very few would pay £20 a day for a ticket, enthusiasts excepted, even with todays fares that takes a lot of running up.

Very true.

 

[Typhoon]

Very few would pay £20 a day for a ticket, enthusiasts excepted, even with todays fares that takes a lot of running up.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

There appear to be two possible types of user for an all routes day ticket: (1) enthusiasts* and (2) those for who there is currently no suitable day ticket available.

(1) Some will pay £20, even £30 and travel long distances but there are not enough of them to make offering the ticket worthwhile (unless the aim is 'we tried but no-one was interested').

(2) These are people for whom there is no multi-operator ticket available or wish to cross the border of a multi-operator ticket. They won't travel (much) further than on existing tickets because bus travel over long distances is not comfortable. There are potentially more of these provided the ticket was well advertised (appears to be minimal advertising for the Discovery ticket by operators, for instance, as well as accounts in other threads by regular contributors). For these people price would be an issue so no more than 50% mark-up on the regional day tickets. Might need to define which routes it would not be available on to avoid misuse on express routes (I'm not going down that road). Probably never happen, though!


* - enthusiasts in its wider sense, not just bus enthusiasts (includes those wishing to visit all the piers in a particular area, for instance).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think this hits the nail on the head.

There appear to be two possible types of user for an all routes day ticket: (1) enthusiasts* and (2) those for who there is currently no suitable day ticket available.

(1) Some will pay £20, even £30 and travel long distances but there are not enough of them to make offering the ticket worthwhile (unless the aim is 'we tried but no-one was interested').

(2) These are people for whom there is no multi-operator ticket available or wish to cross the border of a multi-operator ticket. They won't travel (much) further than on existing tickets because bus travel over long distances is not comfortable. There are potentially more of these provided the ticket was well advertised (appears to be minimal advertising for the Discovery ticket by operators, for instance, as well as accounts in other threads by regular contributors). For these people price would be an issue so no more than 50% mark-up on the regional day tickets. Might need to define which routes it would not be available on to avoid misuse on express routes (I'm not going down that road). Probably never happen, though!


* - enthusiasts in its wider sense, not just bus enthusiasts (includes those wishing to visit all the piers in a particular area, for instance).

Multi operator tickets are arguably much more useful for the general public with a particular area rather than a more expensive option that’s really only of interest for the few people who fancy spending 12 hours riding on e200s from Nuneaton to Haverhill

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[Ayman Ilham]

A few years ago I had a mad Sunday and went down to Peterborough to ride the First Eastern Counties X1 all the way from Peat Bog to Yarmouth, breaking the trip at Norwich to stretch my legs.
The day ticket which covered the whole route was £15 even then, although I believe it's been reduced since.

Stagecoach's "East Dayrider Gold" (which also covers Stagecoach Midlands, Stagecoach Oxfordshire and the X5 "coach", but which is East's default step up from 1 county coverage) is currently £15, so £20 isn't actually all that much of a jump.

That's exactly what I had in mind! Besides, there are quite a significant amount of "local" bus routes out there that are either operated by coaches (as is the case with Oxbridge X5, First Cymru X10 and many services in Scotland) or coach-spec buses which will definitely add value to the ticket! I think a weekly version of the ticket might be more worth the while; what price would be suitable for that?

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[philthetube]

I think this hits the nail on the head.

There appear to be two possible types of user for an all routes day ticket: (1) enthusiasts* and (2) those for who there is currently no suitable day ticket available.

(1) Some will pay £20, even £30 and travel long distances but there are not enough of them to make offering the ticket worthwhile (unless the aim is 'we tried but no-one was interested').

(2) These are people for whom there is no multi-operator ticket available or wish to cross the border of a multi-operator ticket. They won't travel (much) further than on existing tickets because bus travel over long distances is not comfortable. There are potentially more of these provided the ticket was well advertised (appears to be minimal advertising for the Discovery ticket by operators, for instance, as well as accounts in other threads by regular contributors). For these people price would be an issue so no more than 50% mark-up on the regional day tickets. Might need to define which routes it would not be available on to avoid misuse on express routes (I'm not going down that road). Probably never happen, though!


* - enthusiasts in its wider sense, not just bus enthusiasts (includes those wishing to visit all the piers in a particular area, for instance).

The buses lost me because there was no suitable day ticket available, different operator running day and evening services, I had to buy a car because it was going to cost me £9 daily for a 9 mile round trip,

If something could be worked out, maybe £50 monthly to allow travel in an area 25 miles from base this would be very useful for commuters, as shouldn't hit operators too hard, it should be electronically possible to do this using nets cards and maybe revenue could be piggybacked onto that scheme.

 

[Statto]

Arriva used to have a day ticket about 15 years ago that covered every one of there UK bus operations, it was a couple of pounds more than their region wide day tickets think around £7-£8 mark, Arriva ended up scrapping it about 10 years ago though.

 

[Typhoon]

Multi operator tickets are arguably much more useful for the general public with a particular area rather than a more expensive option that’s really only of interest for the few people who fancy spending 12 hours riding on e200s from Nuneaton to Haverhill

True. You would have to be very dedicated to want to spend 12 hours on any bus.

However, borders between operators are (in many cases) largely arbitrary so a journey in Hampshire (to, say, the New Forest) might involve 3 different operators and no countywide multi operator ticket (that I am aware of). I don't expect that it would happen but it might encourage people to use the bus. I just think that it might cover gaps in the current, rather sparse, multi operator network particularly near the border of an existing offer. If you take the Cotswolds day ticket*, fine for exploring the Cotswolds if you are already there, hit and miss from outside - depending on which direction you are coming from. In my active days I walked chunks of the Cotswold Way using the bus (fine for me, all the walk is on the Cotswold way, no dull walking just to get back to the starting place or finding a bus that gets me to the village I started at, no driving while exhausted, able to drop out of the walk anywhere where there is a bus service). I sometimes started from Worcestershire, meaning one ticket will not now do (so having the inconvenience of probably having to return the way I came and having to buy tickets I have no idea the cost of). I am sure that there are others who would enjoy the countryside but are put off by the lack of a suitable way of accessing it at a reasonable price and the bus, rather than rail, is a more useful medium for doing so. I now live in the south east so I can travel for over 12 hours on over a dozen buses on the same ticket before I hit its boundary because the Discovery ticket covers such a wide area and can be used on (almost?) all operators in the south east. Others are not so lucky and so an all routes ticket would be a useful stop gap. Yes, I miss the Wanderbus.

* - while checking this, I note that references to the Explorer have (almost) disappeared. Discoverer is widely advertised, including a very helpful diagram https://ukbytrain.com/cotswolds-discoverer/

 

[Typhoon]

The buses lost me because there was no suitable day ticket available, different operator running day and evening services, I had to buy a car because it was going to cost me £9 daily for a 9 mile round trip,

Goes without saying that the different operators did not accept one-another's tickets. People like you find it too expensive to use the bus so find alternatives. Fewer people use the service. I guess the evening service is subsidised - either the subsidy needs to rise or they cut the evening service through lack of use.

 

[MedwayValiant]

I now live in the south east so I can travel for over 12 hours on over a dozen buses on the same ticket before I hit its boundary because the Discovery ticket covers such a wide area and can be used on (almost?) all operators in the south east.

It is almost all. It is not valid on TfL services, and Arriva aren't entirely sure whether or not they take it on journeys which enter Greater London. Otherwise, Ensign Bus don't take it, and D W Ham (Flimwell) apparently don't. That last has the potential to be a bit annoying now that Ham operates the 297 (Tunbridge Wells - Tenterden) which provides some useful links.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[Ayman Ilham]

I think this hits the nail on the head.

There appear to be two possible types of user for an all routes day ticket: (1) enthusiasts* and (2) those for who there is currently no suitable day ticket available.

(1) Some will pay £20, even £30 and travel long distances but there are not enough of them to make offering the ticket worthwhile (unless the aim is 'we tried but no-one was interested').

(2) These are people for whom there is no multi-operator ticket available or wish to cross the border of a multi-operator ticket. They won't travel (much) further than on existing tickets because bus travel over long distances is not comfortable. There are potentially more of these provided the ticket was well advertised (appears to be minimal advertising for the Discovery ticket by operators, for instance, as well as accounts in other threads by regular contributors). For these people price would be an issue so no more than 50% mark-up on the regional day tickets. Might need to define which routes it would not be available on to avoid misuse on express routes (I'm not going down that road). Probably never happen, though!


* - enthusiasts in its wider sense, not just bus enthusiasts (includes those wishing to visit all the piers in a particular area, for instance).

One thing I am interested in knowing is what it takes exactly (in terms of resources, funding, etc.) for operators to offer a certain type of ticket, such as a day ticket for unlimited travel on a selected network of routes?

Multi operator tickets are arguably much more useful for the general public with a particular area rather than a more expensive option that’s really only of interest for the few people who fancy spending 12 hours riding on e200s from Nuneaton to Haverhill

My mind is not on Enviro 200s but the much more comfortable Plaxton Elite coaches with full-on luxury on express routes that behave like local bus routes in the sense of ticketing (turn-up-and-go dayriders) such as the X5 from Oxford to Cambridge. By the way, the 13 from Cambridge to Haverhill is a coach-seated Stagecoach Gold Scania E400 (not E200) although to be fair, you do have a point with 12 hours being too long for riding buses cos I rode a 125 from Bolton to Preston (also Gold) and that took way too long (says a lot, cos it's barely 2 hours) but then again, that was all stopper rather than express like the X2 from Preston to Liverpool via Southport.

 

[MrCub]

Arriva Beds and Herts Orbit ticket takes you from Stevenage & Letchworth, down to Welwyn and Waltham Abbey or west through Luton to Oxford, Aylesbury, and Reading via Leighton Buzzard or Hemel, and High Wycombe. £6.50 a day with versions available for weekly or monthly

 

[jay38a]

If we’re including the whole of UK, how about Translinks Ilink £16 ticket which includes all buses and trains within Northern Ireland.

On a Sunday and school holidays there is a £9 ticket which is valid after 9:15, valid on all Ulsterbus services in NI.

 

[Statto]

You can go via Bolton but then again, you can go direct on the 113 Preston to Wigan.

Coming back to this, going through Bolton would be my choice, 113 Preston-Wigan is hourly & takes around 2 hours journey time, 125 is every 10 minutes[12 Saturdays], takes around 1 hour 40 minutes & often has E400 gold deckers allocated

Been a couple of changes, X8 Chester-Liverpool is no more, it's now X1 Chester-Liverpool, on a slightly different route Ellesmere Port to Hooton

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

One thing I am interested in knowing is what it takes exactly (in terms of resources, funding, etc.) for operators to offer a certain type of ticket, such as a day ticket for unlimited travel on a selected network of routes?



My mind is not on Enviro 200s but the much more comfortable Plaxton Elite coaches with full-on luxury on express routes that behave like local bus routes in the sense of ticketing (turn-up-and-go dayriders) such as the X5 from Oxford to Cambridge. By the way, the 13 from Cambridge to Haverhill is a coach-seated Stagecoach Gold Scania E400 (not E200) although to be fair, you do have a point with 12 hours being too long for riding buses cos I rode a 125 from Bolton to Preston (also Gold) and that took way too long (says a lot, cos it's barely 2 hours) but then again, that was all stopper rather than express like the X2 from Preston to Liverpool via Southport.

I was being rather tongue in cheek in mentioning e200s.

However, the point remains the same. The market for tickets that cover huge expanses of territory is relatively limited to the occasional Joe Public and mainly for enthusiasts bashing buses.

For Joe Public, it's much more useful to have tickets that are multi operator in a particular area (county?) than travelling from Yarmouth to Barmouth. A multi operator ticket for a county at £8 is arguably more use than some £15 option that allows you to grind your way across the country.

Don't get me wrong - I love a good day out, racking up the miles etc but I recognise that I'm atypical.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

If we’re including the whole of UK, how about Translinks Ilink £16 ticket which includes all buses and trains within Northern Ireland.

£16 for unlimited travel ALL DAY on ALL public transport (local AND intercity, practically unrestricted) in an entire country? That's a steal and exactly why I'm considering a trip to Northern Ireland sometime! Can easily visit all 5 cities (Belfast, Lisburn, Newry, Armagh and Derry) in one day especially when 4 of them are relatively close together and only Derry is further out (even then only 2 hours away from Belfast); will probably get an overnight ferry from Liverpool, which is easiest port to get to from Manchester of course, (£32 each way seems reasonable) and I got a whole day (plenty of time) to explore NI with iLink before the next overnight ferry back! Upon arrival in Belfast on Stena Line, where would I buy this iLink for the day? An itinerary I'm thinking is Belfast to Lisburn on the train, then Lisburn to Newry on a train, bus or coach (whichever is most convenient) followed by Newry to Armagh on the bus and then Armagh to Derry if I can time an X4 coach well and finally, a train or coach back to Belfast; maybe I may do it the other way round depending on which is better!

 

[jay38a]

£16 for unlimited travel ALL DAY on ALL public transport (local AND intercity, practically unrestricted) in an entire country? That's a steal and exactly why I'm considering a trip to Northern Ireland sometime! Can easily visit all 5 cities (Belfast, Lisburn, Newry, Armagh and Derry) in one day especially when 4 of them are relatively close together and only Derry is further out (even then only 2 hours away from Belfast); will probably get an overnight ferry from Liverpool, which is easiest port to get to from Manchester of course, (£32 each way seems reasonable) and I got a whole day (plenty of time) to explore NI with iLink before the next overnight ferry back! Upon arrival in Belfast on Stena Line, where would I buy this iLink for the day? An itinerary I'm thinking is Belfast to Lisburn on the train, then Lisburn to Newry on a train, bus or coach (whichever is most convenient) followed by Newry to Armagh on the bus and then Armagh to Derry if I can time an X4 coach well and finally, a train or coach back to Belfast; maybe I may do it the other way round depending on which is better!

I would get onto the bus to the europa bus station which is right next to Great Victoria Street station where you can buy it. When asking for an I-link, you will want a Zone 4 I-link and load it with a 1 day ticket. This ticket has no time restrictions.

Every bus you get on just tap it on and a ticket will issue which will show you fleet number of the bus. On the train you tap on and off at stations.

 

[arbeia]

Last Tuesday, with son by train to Edinburgh. Walk to St Andrews bus station and a freedom of Fife Plus ticket promotion for 2 travelling together was £11.50 offered by Stagecoach. Not bad as far as Dundee/Perth/all of Fife and Edinburgh for £5.60 for the day. I believe it finishes this weekend

 

[Deerfold]

For Joe Public, it's much more useful to have tickets that are multi operator in a particular area (county?) than travelling from Yarmouth to Barmouth. A multi operator ticket for a county at £8 is arguably more use than some £15 option that allows you to grind your way across the country.

Useful up to a point, but it depends if you want to cross a boundary. I've lived in several places where I can go in one direction for 20 miles or more on one cheap ticket, but no multi-operator ticket is available if I want to go more than a couple of miles in the other direction.

I found in Skåne in Sweden a useful system - you can tell the travel app where you need to go in a day and it'll generate a ticket valid to all those points and all in between. You can travel once to each or keep going all day.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Useful up to a point, but it depends if you want to cross a boundary. I've lived in several places where I can go in one direction for 20 miles or more on one cheap ticket, but no multi-operator ticket is available if I want to go more than a couple of miles in the other direction.

I found in Skåne in Sweden a useful system - you can tell the travel app where you need to go in a day and it'll generate a ticket valid to all those points and all in between. You can travel once to each or keep going all day.

Fair comment - UK day rover tickets (even the largest ones) have a boundary where if you live near there (like living in Alnwick) means you are constricted.

One long standing one is the Wiltshire Day Rover where you can travel across the border from Wiltshire to Bath, Shaftesbury and even Oxford and Southampton.

 

[Statto]

Useful up to a point, but it depends if you want to cross a boundary. I've lived in several places where I can go in one direction for 20 miles or more on one cheap ticket, but no multi-operator ticket is available if I want to go more than a couple of miles in the other direction.

I found in Skåne in Sweden a useful system - you can tell the travel app where you need to go in a day and it'll generate a ticket valid to all those points and all in between. You can travel once to each or keep going all day.

Good point, perfect example, where i live, area like Bromborough or Eastham, you can buy Merseytravel tickets that get you to Liverpool/Southport/St Helens, but only Train to Chester, if you want the bus to Chester, you have to rely on Stagecoach tickets, until the early 00s, it used to be operator own tickets only if you wanted Chester, Merseytravel tickets only used to get you as far as Hooton.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Fair comment - UK day rover tickets (even the largest ones) have a boundary where if you live near there (like living in Alnwick) means you are constricted.

One long standing one is the Wiltshire Day Rover where you can travel across the border from Wiltshire to Bath, Shaftesbury and even Oxford and Southampton.

Mind, I've always felt a bit nervous about asking for one on the bus from Oxford, since it seems ludicrous that a Wiltshire ticket can be bought nowhere near the county border (though it is an absolutely cracking deal - I just wish it included Bournemouth too).

 

[Jordan Adam]

Last Tuesday, with son by train to Edinburgh. Walk to St Andrews bus station and a freedom of Fife Plus ticket promotion for 2 travelling together was £11.50 offered by Stagecoach. Not bad as far as Dundee/Perth/all of Fife and Edinburgh for £5.60 for the day. I believe it finishes this weekend

In terms of distance the East Scotland Dayrider is more expensive but even better as it permits travel in the same areas but also additionally through to Glasgow, Stirling, Perthshire, Angus and up in to Aberdeen (X7 only).