Trivia: Neglected railway stations in busy areas?

[greyman42]

Dalmarnock station is just outside Glasgow city centre, near a major football stadium, and the 2014 Commonwealth Games happened nearby. It has a frequent service, but it's a horrible station. The station is in a trench, with half the platforms in the open air, and the other half in a dingy badly-lit tunnel.

If we're going international, there's also Chambers Street on the New York Subway. It's right in the heart of the city - next to the City Hall, and a 5 minute walk away from the World Trade Centre and Wall Street. In its heyday, it had 3 island platforms and two side platforms. Only two island platforms are still in use, and one of the side platforms is boarded up. The rest sits abandoned.

Was that photo of Dalmarnock taken before or after the Commmonwealths as it had a refurbishment for the games? It is also prone to flooding.

 

[trebor79]

But one busy train a day hardly justifies turning it into a "Bristol Metro".

Let's look at the usage figures on the line:

Severn Beach: 250k
St Andrew's Road: 4k
Avonmouth: 100k
Shirehampton: 47k
Sea Mills: 50k
Clifton Down: 600k
Redland: 90k
Montpelier: 90k
Stapleton Rd: 170k
Lawrence Hill: 150k

So a grand total of about 1.6m / year or about 30,000 a week across the whole line - not that busy in the scheme of things.

I'm sure something similar could have been said in the early 70s of parts of what became the Tyne and Wear Metro.

 

[Mordac]

Would Adderley Park count?

 

[A0]

I'm sure something similar could have been said in the early 70s of parts of what became the Tyne and Wear Metro.

Not really.

Severn Beach has a population of 2500, North Shields of 35,000.

The latter could always have justified a rail link on the basis of size, whereas the former struggles to justify it even today.

 

[geordieblue]

Not really.

Severn Beach has a population of 2500, North Shields of 35,000.

The latter could always have justified a rail link on the basis of size, whereas the former struggles to justify it even today.

Of course, North Shields has 3 stations serving it, which spreads the figures out somewhat.
And Severn Beach 300k users a year for a train every two hours; how does that struggle to justify a rail link?
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a conversion to light rail would be transformative.

 

[A0]

Of course, North Shields has 3 stations serving it, which spreads the figures out somewhat. And Severn Beach 300k users a year for a train every two hours; how does that struggle to justify a rail link? I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a conversion to light rail would be transformative.

I do have to question those figures for Severn Beach - that would suggest over 800 people using the station a day on average with a local population of a couple of thousand - as a proportion of users that's wildly outside anything you see except, perhaps, in London.

Comparing it with Felixstowe which has a population of 20,000 and an hourly service to Ipswich and that's running below 200,000 a year.

There's not the tourist element which Felixstowe has and it's not a park & ride type station either.

 

[geordieblue]

I do have to question those figures for Severn Beach - that would suggest over 800 people using the station a day on average with a local population of a couple of thousand - as a proportion of users that's wildly outside anything you see except, perhaps, in London.

Comparing it with Felixstowe which has a population of 20,000 and an hourly service to Ipswich and that's running below 200,000 a year.

There's not the tourist element which Felixstowe has and it's not a park & ride type station either.

You'll have to take that up with the ORR...

 

[Revilo]

Because it’s zonal I wonder if tickets beyond Clifton Down are just issued to Severn Beach rather that Avonmouth, Sea Mills etc.

 

[Lucan]

Have they not yet built the proposed station (on the Severn Beach line) by the Portway Park and Ride? That should make a difference, and if they have still not built it I despair. The P&R has been there for years now, right alongside the railway which is single track - so all it needs is someone to knock up a pre-fab platform and put a "bus" shelter on it. The P&R has good road connections to a large area of north west Bristol (the more prosperous suburbs).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have they not yet built the proposed station (on the Severn Beach line) by the Portway Park and Ride? That should make a difference, and if they have still not built it I despair. The P&R has been there for years now, right alongside the railway which is single track - so all it needs is someone to knock up a pre-fab platform and put a "bus" shelter on it. The P&R has good road connections to a large area of north west Bristol (the more prosperous suburbs).

Wonder how much the quote would be for that? New built platforms often seem to cost significantly more than might (naively) be expected.

 

[Lucan]

New built platforms often seem to cost significantly more than might (naively) be expected.

I don't believe it is the physical cost, it is the cost of endless case studies, safety studies, environmental studies etc, that are made, and have to be started all over again when some new factor (real or supposed) has arisen during the time it takes. Rinse and repeat - I've been there and seen it myself, got a few T-shirts.

Yet 100 years ago railway halts were put up for golf courses and holiday camps without years first spent navel-gazing, The Southern (at least) used pre-fab concrete panels and posts for this sort of thing. Just yesterday, within the space of 8 hours, three workmen with a JCB and a dump truck flattened an area on my neighbour's property (a small holding) about four times the area needed to prepare for a 3 or 4 coach-length one-sided station. It is going to be ballasted and tarred next - paid out of the pocket of a private individual. But apparently even a railway company and Bristol Council combined cannot afford it.

 

[stuu]

Have they not yet built the proposed station (on the Severn Beach line) by the Portway Park and Ride? That should make a difference, and if they have still not built it I despair. The P&R has been there for years now, right alongside the railway which is single track - so all it needs is someone to knock up a pre-fab platform and put a "bus" shelter on it. The P&R has good road connections to a large area of north west Bristol (the more prosperous suburbs).

The station at the P&R makes no sense to me. The rail service is every 40 minutes, and for anyone wanting the city centre it's pointless, the bus is much better, as it is more frequent and direct. Unless you have an aversion to buses, and like walking, I don't know why anyone would use the train from there to access the city centre

 

[JohnRegular]

Because it’s zonal I wonder if tickets beyond Clifton Down are just issued to Severn Beach rather that Avonmouth, Sea Mills etc.

I have definitely been issued tickets from Clifton Down when buying on board from Redland, it's quite possible guards do the same with Severn Beach tickets.

With regards to the level of service on the line, Severn Beach itself probably doesn't justify any more than an hourly frequency. However Avonmouth and inward absolutely do, and would certainly benefit from a more regular service.

 

[Llandudno]

Bow Street near Aberystwyth £8m for a single platform with ‘Park & Ride!’

Wonder how much the quote would be for that? New built platforms often seem to cost significantly more than might (naively) be expected.

 

[Lucan]

Bow Street near Aberystwyth £8m for a single platform with ‘Park & Ride!’

At the Portway (Bristol) P&R the car park is already there. No land purchase needed and it even looks like a space is reserved for it (centre of this picture). The site is practically level so not much ground work apart from a pathway and an electricity cable trench from the existing car park supply.

I wish they would give me £8m to do it. Unfortunately most contractors know they can take entities like councils and railway companies for a ride.

 

[miami]

Aardwick of course, but Belle Vue strikes me as somewhere which should have far more service and passengers than it gets. I remember trying to catch a train from there about 25 years ago after watching a speedway event.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is it a railway truism that the first station out from a major city centre station is invariably somewhat neglected?

One or two honourable exceptions, but not many!

 

[Sprinter107]

Is it a railway truism that the first station out from a major city centre station is invariably somewhat neglected?

One or two honourable exceptions, but not many!

Some are and some arent. From Birmingham, Five Ways, Smethwick Rolfe Street, and Jewellery Quarter arent really neglected, but Duddeston, Adderley Park, and Bordesley seem to have a very neglected air about them.

 

[chris_in_salop]

Some are and some arent. From Birmingham, Five Ways, Smethwick Rolfe Street, and Jewellery Quarter arent really neglected, but Duddeston, Adderley Park, and Bordesley seem to have a very neglected air about them.

I do wonder why stations on the WCML were treated so differently on either side of New Street. The first three stations on the Wolverhampton side (Monument Lane, Winson Green and Soho) all closed in the 1960s, while nothing closed on the Coventry side. I can't really see the point of Adderley Park any more, and if the Midland Metro line to Solihull ever happens, it would seem to be a good candidate for closure.

I suppose both Five Ways and Jewellery Quarter have both (re)opened fairly recently, and they both have some commuter potential. Duddeston and Bordesley are just Victorian fossils that don't serve much purpose any more.

 

[Parallel]

I find Polsloe Bridge like going back in time. It’s in a busy area but the station is like a 1960s halt. No CIS, concrete platforms, steep steps and old fashioned platform lights with cables that go between them. There is only a very small concrete waiting shelter and a derelict second platform which is being taken over by nature.

 

[tommy2215]

Wilmslow. The entire station is in a state of dilapidation.

 

[Sprinter107]

I think you're correct. I wonder if theyve become run down because no one uses them, or if no one uses them because they look run down and menacing. Maybe the lack of trains at Adderley Park, once every hour is the problem there. Duddeston has a very frequent bus every few minutes into town, and is a 20 minute walk on a nice day.

I do wonder why stations on the WCML were treated so differently on either side of New Street. The first three stations on the Wolverhampton side (Monument Lane, Winson Green and Soho) all closed in the 1960s, while nothing closed on the Coventry side. I can't really see the point of Adderley Park any more, and if the Midland Metro line to Solihull ever happens, it would seem to be a good candidate for closure.

I suppose both Five Ways and Jewellery Quarter have both (re)opened fairly recently, and they both have some commuter potential. Duddeston and Bordesley are just Victorian fossils that don't serve much purpose any more.

 

[DB]

Is it a railway truism that the first station out from a major city centre station is invariably somewhat neglected?

One or two honourable exceptions, but not many!

Yes, that's true! It applies to most of them in the suburbs of Leeds. Very few have any facilities and are just rather bleak plaforms with vandal-resistant shelters. Even if not actually run-down they manage to have a neglected feel.

 

[miami]

Wilmslow. The entire station is in a state of dilapidation.

For such a busy station in such a posh area, with direct trains to London and Cardiff and fast trains to Manchester, it certainly could do with being a bit nicer.

Are the ticket machines still on the rail side of the ticket checks in the morning?

 

[Llandudno]

Wilmslow. The entire station is in a state of dilapidation.

In complete contrast to the nearby housing...!

 

[randyrippley]

Yes, that would probably make sense. Strictly the Jubilee station has the wrong name and should be called Brondesbury as well, but clearly that ship has sailed!

On an early map I saw the other day, both stations were named "Brondesbury". Did the underground station get renamed?

 

[Andyh82]

Yes, that's true! It applies to most of them in the suburbs of Leeds. Very few have any facilities and are just rather bleak plaforms with vandal-resistant shelters. Even if not actually run-down they manage to have a neglected feel.

I don’t think this does apply to Leeds, as most of the first stations out are actually quite a distance away so are in places of their own right, like Cross Gates, Outwood, Woodlesford, rather than the Ardwick situation where the station is within a run down industrial area. If Leeds had stations near Neville Hill or maybe in Holbeck or Armley you’d end up with that situation.

 

[geoffk]

I find Polsloe Bridge like going back in time. It’s in a busy area but the station is like a 1960s halt. No CIS, concrete platforms, steep steps and old fashioned platform lights with cables that go between them. There is only a very small concrete waiting shelter and a derelict second platform which is being taken over by nature.

There is a CIS at Polsloe Bridge, but I agree nothing else, no ticket machine and only one train an hour off-peak. When I move house, hopefully in a few weeks, it will be my local station!

 

[Killingworth]

Agreed - a terrible frequency compared to the parallel bus route.

Darnall in Sheffield is another example of an hourly service to an inner city station but a "frequent intervals" bus service means that the train will always struggle.

Darnall has fairly high population density, but the station is tucked away down a side street, a relatively unattractive underpass required to access the island platform (I've never had any bother there but I'm a 6ft+ bloke; I can appreciate some others may be reluctant to leave the main road with its frequent bus service and risk the station) No simple solution here though, there's precious little capacity at Sheffield Midland for any additional services, so it may be better to give up on Darnall as far as heavy rail goes.

Darnall! I drove almost under it twice a day for about 6 years without realising where it was. I sought it out and discovered it had parking - for 2 cars, one of which is for disabled, but both empty. It is indeed a most unattractive underpass. I was only there to see what was required for a big clean up being planned by a new station adoption group. They cleared absolutely masses of litter around about the station. Dumping it is clearly a local habit. Graffiti can be an issue but had been painted over when I visited.

I used an hourly train from Lincoln that was going on to Leeds but they no longer stop at Darnall. Seems through Leeds-Lincoln services have been axed.

 

[Parallel]

There is a CIS at Polsloe Bridge, but I agree nothing else, no ticket machine and only one train an hour off-peak. When I move house, hopefully in a few weeks, it will be my local station!

That’s interesting, I didn’t see it on the platform when the train stopped there last week. Is it on the station approach? Should probably be a half-hourly service really.