Trivia: places with infrequent trains to London and similarly rare services.

[Kite159]

Middlesbrough has 1tpd to/from Kings Cross.

Until recently Sunderland had 1tpd to/from Kings Cross via Newcastle (LNER) and many more via Hartlepool (GC) although I believe that the LNER service has now been curtailed to start from Newcastle.

Still runs as the 0539 Sunderland to London Kings Cross & 2000 London Kings Cross to Sunderland

I suspect most days the morning train carries fresh air to Newcastle. Although it's meant to be getting axed at some point.

 

[SeanG]

Still runs as the 0539 Sunderland to London Kings Cross & 2000 London Kings Cross to Sunderland

I suspect most days the morning train carries fresh air to Newcastle. Although it's meant to be getting axed at some point.

It has always seemed an odd one to me, as there are options using Grand Central and it means an extra early/late ECS to/from Heaton

 

[507020]

Correct - serviced by a Leicester-Nottingham-Lincoln-Grimsby service approximately every hour (some terminate at Lincoln rather than continuing to Grimsby I believe). As far up as Newark Castle there are also the Crewe-Newark Castle services.

I've taken the evening departure from St Pancras as far as Nottingham - last time I used it the vast majority of people alighted at Nottingham and it was lightly loaded continuing to Newark and Lincoln (but this was on an evening that it was a planned diversion via Corby so it was a lot slower and probably less useful for people both in London and Nottingham - not sure if this reflects normal loadings).

I was aware of the Crewe - Newark Castle services, which terminate short of Newark Flat Crossing, but I’m unsure why they start from Crewe and not Stoke-on-Trent.

St Pancras - Lincoln via Corby must be the most unusual EMR Intercity service as it uses both sections of track.

And I believe GWR used to run a single service from Pembroke Dock to Paddington with HST sets.

Not sure whether it's being reinstated at some point...

How far into Wales does GWR run now?

 

[D6975]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the early morning Bristol-Stansted via New St that's run for a few years now (used to start at Gloucester)
I think that GWR don't go past Carmarthen any more, but they used to run to Pembroke on a Saturday and to Fishguard daily - done that one many times en route to/from Ireland.

 

[route101]

Swindon to Southampton on GWR and Southampton to Great Malvern

 

[70014IronDuke]

A few posts above about St Pancras - Leeds services. They started in BR days to get HSTs to Neville Hill. Now EMR have binned their HSTs there is no need to run north of Sheffield

Not wanting to be picky here, and you probably know this in any case, but "back in the day" there were scheduled St Pancras - Leeds expresses through the day, along with portions to Bradford FS. Moreover, some went on to Scotland.

Most of these services ceased in c 1962-3, when BR decreed (understandably) that passengers for Leeds should all be routed via the significantly faster GN route with Deltic haulage (mostly).

The HST Leeds - St Pancras and vv trains were, as you say, run primarily to get the units to and from Neville Hill for maintenance, but they started much later - probably from winter TT 1982, when HSTs first began on the MML.

As to the OP's question - doesn't Water Orton have one peak hour Brum NS to Derby service around 17.30, with no corresponding return service?

 

[BJames]

Not wanting to be picky here, and you probably know this in any case, but "back in the day" there were scheduled St Pancras - Leeds expresses through the day, along with portions to Bradford FS. Moreover, some went on to Scotland.

Most of these services ceased in c 1962-3, when BR decreed (understandably) that passengers for Leeds should all be routed via the significantly faster GN route with Deltic haulage (mostly).

The HST Leeds - St Pancras and vv trains were, as you say, run primarily to get the units to and from Neville Hill for maintenance, but they started much later - probably from winter TT 1982, when HSTs first began on the MML.

As to the OP's question - doesn't Water Orton have one peak hour Brum NS to Derby service around 17.30, with no corresponding return service?

Was unaware of this service but I have just checked and you are indeed correct - it's the regular Cardiff Central to Nottingham service but this one calls at Water Orton too. Calls at 17:59 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P89025/2022-09-08/detailed#allox_id=0

There is one in the other direction in the morning, Nottingham - Birmingham New Street, calling at Water Orton at 08:43 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P88822/2022-09-08/detailed#allox_id=1

 

[Watershed]

I was aware of the Crewe - Newark Castle services, which terminate short of Newark Flat Crossing, but I’m unsure why they start from Crewe and not Stoke-on-Trent.

Because it's simply the amalgamation of the former Crewe-Derby and Matlock-Newark services. The service along the North Staffordshire line has long originated at Crewe - hence why Longport, Kidsgrove and Alsager are managed by EMR for instance. It provides a useful, albeit rather slow, link between Liverpool/Manchester/Wales etc. and Derby/Nottingham.

 

[SargeNpton]

1631 SX Barnstaple to Axminster (with an ECS move back to Exeter).

Looks to be the only scheduled GWR operated-service that runs between Exeter St Davids and Axminster.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Was unaware of this service but I have just checked and you are indeed correct - it's the regular Cardiff Central to Nottingham service but this one calls at Water Orton too. Calls at 17:59 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P89025/2022-09-08/detailed#allox_id=0

In that case, I think they've changed the timetable a wee bit - probably for pathing purposes. I think a year or two back the train originated from Brum NS.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P89025/2022-09-08/detailed#allox_id=0

There is one in the other direction in the morning, Nottingham - Birmingham New Street, calling at Water Orton at 08:43 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P88822/2022-09-08/detailed#allox_id=1

Ah, OK. I couldn't remember if there was a working in that direction or not. Or maybe that's a new service. For some reason, the northbound working stuck in my mind.

 

[Ken H]

Not wanting to be picky here, and you probably know this in any case, but "back in the day" there were scheduled St Pancras - Leeds expresses through the day, along with portions to Bradford FS. Moreover, some went on to Scotland.

Most of these services ceased in c 1962-3, when BR decreed (understandably) that passengers for Leeds should all be routed via the significantly faster GN route with Deltic haulage (mostly).

The HST Leeds - St Pancras and vv trains were, as you say, run primarily to get the units to and from Neville Hill for maintenance, but they started much later - probably from winter TT 1982, when HSTs first began on the MML.

As to the OP's question - doesn't Water Orton have one peak hour Brum NS to Derby service around 17.30, with no corresponding return service?

Doh!. Of course. The Thames - Clyde Express.

 

[greyman42]

Newcastle to Banbury, one each way with Cross Country. There used to be a good service between the Northeast and the Southeast.

 

[route101]

Newcastle to Banbury, one each way with Cross Country. There used to be a good service between the Northeast and the Southeast.

There was a few Reading to Edinburgh services too.

 

[PGAT]

Pre-covid some peak trains to Ore divided at Lewes instead of Eastbourne, and the rear portion went to Seaford.

 

[ABB125]

Ashchurch currently has a single direct train from Paddington in the evening, this being an extension of a Cheltenham service to Worcester. Before coronavirus, there used to be a direct train to London as well.

 

[rg177]

Deleted

 

[70014IronDuke]

Doh!. Of course. The Thames - Clyde Express.

Yes, that was one that remained for some more years. But there were scheduled St Pancras - Leeds services too (some with through coaches to places like Halifax, IIRC) which were hangovers from Midland Railway days. I'd guess there were about four such trains a day. I believe these disappeared in the winter 1962 TT.

 

[Magdalia]

Not wanting to be picky here, and you probably know this in any case, but "back in the day" there were scheduled St Pancras - Leeds expresses through the day, along with portions to Bradford FS. Moreover, some went on to Scotland.

Most of these services ceased in c 1962-3, when BR decreed (understandably) that passengers for Leeds should all be routed via the significantly faster GN route with Deltic haulage (mostly).

The HST Leeds - St Pancras and vv trains were, as you say, run primarily to get the units to and from Neville Hill for maintenance, but they started much later - probably from winter TT 1982, when HSTs first began on the MML.

Through trains between St Pancras and Bradford Forster Square finished in March 1967.

There was a through train each way Leeds/St Pancras right up to the 1981 timetable, when they were 0758 up and 1650 down.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Through trains between St Pancras and Bradford Forster Square finished in March 1967.

There was a through train each way Leeds/St Pancras right up to the 1981 timetable, when they were 0758 up and 1650 down.

Really? Continuously from the 60s? That had passed me by. I wonder why? These would have been Cl 45 hauled, no need for them to go to Leeds for maintenance. Maybe the Midland managers just wanted to keep the route knowledge for its northern depots.

There was also one advertised through working from Mansfield Woodhouse (or possibly Worksop) to Norwich, plus one unadvertised each morning until fairly recently.

I suppose these fell victims to Covid cutbacks. I don't think there were any return workings.

There is a Train on Sunday’s from Sheffield that starts at Nottingham & runs to Leeds as the normal semi fast service but carries on to Carlisle via Settle. It only runs in one direction.

There is also an unadvertised through service from Sheffield on weekdays.
2N03 ex Sheffield joins an ECS unit from Neville Hill to form 2H03 07.48 Leeds - Carlisle.

Presumably they don't announce this as a through service because of the coupling up and faffing about at Leeds?

 

[stj]

Severn Tunnel Jn had a few directs to/from Paddington the other week on a strike day.

 

[BoroAndy]

Watford and Croxley on the Metropolitan Line have three trains a day to / from Rickmansworth. The remainder are to / from Baker Street and beyond.

Why? Just out of interest. Many years ago I used to live at Pinner.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Hereford, the Malverns and the North Cotswold line. A half hourly 5-car IET service would be fine!

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Why? Just out of interest. Many years ago I used to live at Pinner.

Essentially operational reasons. Some trains stable at Watford over night and they also serve as staff trains.

 

[Basil Jet]

Essentially operational reasons. Some trains stable at Watford over night and they also serve as staff trains.

Is it also to even up wheel wear? I realise that this would not be the same magnitude of problem on the Met as it is on the Circle and Hammersmith.

 

[Deerfold]

Last Sunday, TPE (Trans Pennine Express) trains stopped at Brighouse between Manchester Victoria and York due to Engineeering work - it usually has services to Leeds and Manchester but all are slow stopping services - these were three stops to York, via Leeds and one to Manchester.

My sister took advantage of this for a day out in York. Unfortunately, on her return, the doors didn't open so she travelled to Manchester and back, too (she'd realised the platform was too short and moved to another carriage, but apparently not far enough - there were half a dozen people caught out and no announcement).

 

[Birmingham]

Ashchurch currently has a single direct train from Paddington in the evening, this being an extension of a Cheltenham service to Worcester. Before coronavirus, there used to be a direct train to London as well.

There’s a Cheltenham-Paddington started back from Worcester in the morning too, but it’s not booked to call Ashchurch. It has 10 minutes of pathing just outside Worcester to let an XC Plymouth through Cheltenham before it.

 

[507020]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the early morning Bristol-Stansted via New St that's run for a few years now (used to start at Gloucester)
I think that GWR don't go past Carmarthen any more, but they used to run to Pembroke on a Saturday and to Fishguard daily - done that one many times en route to/from Ireland.

Could that be the longest service run with a Turbostar?

Swindon to Southampton on GWR and Southampton to Great Malvern

This reminds me that there is also a once a day Worcester Shrub Hill - Weymouth

Not wanting to be picky here, and you probably know this in any case, but "back in the day" there were scheduled St Pancras - Leeds expresses through the day, along with portions to Bradford FS. Moreover, some went on to Scotland.

Most of these services ceased in c 1962-3, when BR decreed (understandably) that passengers for Leeds should all be routed via the significantly faster GN route with Deltic haulage (mostly).

The GNR also ran portions from Kings Cross - Bradford Exchange, but why was their route significantly faster with Deltic haulage, not exceeding 100mph? Even then, a benefit of the MML would have been the vast amount of additional capacity this provided.

Because it's simply the amalgamation of the former Crewe-Derby and Matlock-Newark services. The service along the North Staffordshire line has long originated at Crewe - hence why Longport, Kidsgrove and Alsager are managed by EMR for instance. It provides a useful, albeit rather slow, link between Liverpool/Manchester/Wales etc. and Derby/Nottingham.

Crewe - Derby and Matlock - Newark services would seem to make more sense than a Matlock - Derby shuttle. The North Staffordshire Railway chiefly provided a through Manchester - Derby route via Stoke-on-Trent, before MML provided a faster one via Bakewell, but of course Crewe - Kidsgrove was also part of the North Staffordshire Railway, as was Stoke-on-Trent - Norton Bridge/Colwich and there are no through Liverpool - Stoke services.

1631 SX Barnstaple to Axminster (with an ECS move back to Exeter).

Looks to be the only scheduled GWR operated-service that runs between Exeter St Davids and Axminster.

That does seem to be correct. It returns ECS via the curve at Yeovil, reversing at Castle Cary. I don’t know why it wouldn’t run in service beyond Axminster.

Newcastle to Banbury, one each way with Cross Country. There used to be a good service between the Northeast and the Southeast.

2 a day XC Newcastle - Banbury, these are interesting as they reverse at New Street and run via Bordesley Junction, not Soho, Moor Street or Coventry.

Through trains between St Pancras and Bradford Forster Square finished in March 1967.

There was a through train each way Leeds/St Pancras right up to the 1981 timetable, when they were 0758 up and 1650 down.

I what about Kings Cross - Bradford Exchange and the Greenside loop?

If St Pancras - Leeds continued until 1981, it never ceased as the following timetable was the introduction of HSTs until 1982. When would they have been diverted via the ECML and Wakefield Westgate, rather than the MML Wath Road Junction - Goose Hill Junction and Normanton?

Really? Continuously from the 60s? That had passed me by. I wonder why? These would have been Cl 45 hauled, no need for them to go to Leeds for maintenance. Maybe the Midland managers just wanted to keep the route knowledge for its northern depots.

There was also one advertised through working from Mansfield Woodhouse (or possibly Worksop) to Norwich, plus one unadvertised each morning until fairly recently.

I suppose these fell victims to Covid cutbacks. I don't think there were any return workings.

Obviously continuously from the 60s means continuously for over 100 years longer than that. Many services removed during Covid timetables are yet to be reinstated.

There is also an unadvertised through service from Sheffield on weekdays.
2N03 ex Sheffield joins an ECS unit from Neville Hill to form 2H03 07.48 Leeds - Carlisle.

Presumably they don't announce this as a through service because of the coupling up and faffing about at Leeds?

A through Sheffield service was advertised on the departure board at Ribblehead when I visited last year, but it would have reversed at Leeds rather than using the Leeds avoiding line which is of course part of the MML.

Severn Tunnel Jn had a few directs to/from Paddington the other week on a strike day.

That won’t be the only only unique service seen on strike days, but calling patterns were a bit broken. For example Avanti West Coast ran Lime Street - Euston via Earlestown but not calling at Warrington Bank Quay vice Runcorn and Manchester Piccadilly - Euston via Styal but not calling at Wilmslow. There is usually one train a day this way in the evening northbound only, but it calls at Wilmslow. This required passengers from Wilmslow to Crewe to double back all stops to Piccadilly.

Last Sunday, TPE (Trans Pennine Express) trains stopped at Brighouse between Manchester Victoria and York due to Engineeering work - it usually has services to Leeds and Manchester but all are slow stopping services - these were three stops to York, via Leeds and one to Manchester.

My sister took advantage of this for a day out in York. Unfortunately, on her return, the doors didn't open so she travelled to Manchester and back, too (she'd realised the platform was too short and moved to another carriage, but apparently not far enough - there were half a dozen people caught out and no announcement).

This was not only last Sunday, but both Saturday and Sunday for the last 2 weekends, TPE ran 2tph fast via the Calder Valley, calling only Brighouse and Dewsbury, despite the fact that they still ran through Mirfield, but connections to Huddersfield were available at Brighouse from the Bradford Interchange - Huddersfield service.

These were the Liverpool Lime Street - Newcastle 802 service which has been diverted that way every Saturday during Miles Platting - Stalybridge but not Guide Bridge - Stalybridge blockades, but this week and last Stalybridge itself was blocked, so it was supplemented by a pair of 185s alternating between Redcar Central and Darlington but not running around the Ordsall Chord. I made use of one for a day out in Yorkshire as I did a few weeks ago when they ran a Piccadilly - Sheffield via a Wakefield Kirkgate non-platform line.

 

[miklcct]

London Waterloo - Southampton Central (via Haslemere), once per weekday.

This is the only train from Waterloo which serves the stations between Fareham and Southampton. The normal London services are to/from Victoria.

Another example is the local stations between Southampton and Bournemouth, which only have peak-hour and Sunday trains to/from London, with Beaulieu Road being the worst that no service to London is provided at all on weekdays.

 

[Kite159]

Crewe - Derby and Matlock - Newark services would seem to make more sense than a Matlock - Derby shuttle. The North Staffordshire Railway chiefly provided a through Manchester - Derby route via Stoke-on-Trent, before MML provided a faster one via Bakewell, but of course Crewe - Kidsgrove was also part of the North Staffordshire Railway, as was Stoke-on-Trent - Norton Bridge/Colwich and there are no through Liverpool - Stoke services.

Pre May last year that is what EMR ran (Crewe - Derby & Matlock - Newark), before it changed to Crewe - Newark & Matlock - Nottingham. Lasted a month or so before the Matlocks got cut back to Derby for most of the day as a 'temporary' measure.

 

[mangyiscute]

The 05:23 from Paddington to Swansea goes the normal route through Chippenham to Bristol Temple Meads, then reverses, provides Filton Abbey Wood with its only train to or from London at 07:14, then reverses again at Bristol Parkway to then go the normal route to Swansea.