Trivia : Popular tube journeys requiring a change

[Taunton]

I'm surprised at the Canary Wharf (pre-Liz Line) most common destinations not being the ones I would expect, which are Waterloo and Stratford, given the numbers of staff there who live down the various suburban lines, especially the SWML, and how things go in the trains.

 

[Mojo]

I'm surprised at the Canary Wharf (pre-Liz Line) most common destinations not being the ones I would expect, which are Waterloo and Stratford, given the numbers of staff there who live down the various suburban lines, especially the SWML, and how things go in the trains.

The list was compiled for the calendar year of 2021 which is when most people in that location would probably have been 'working from home.'

 

[Taunton]

The list was compiled for the calendar year of 2021 which is when most people in that location would probably have been 'working from home.'

Well maybe, but that doesn't really account for Canary Wharf then featuring prominently in the list at all.

Canary Wharf to London Bridge is a surprise to be up at the top, because of all the different shortcuts available for journeys which might continue from there on mainline trains.

 

[miklcct]

See https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2022/11/the-most-popular-tube-journeys.html

From that, most popular was Barking-Stratford; followed by King's Cross-Waterloo.

Refer to that DG post, and linked FoI spreadsheet for more...

I am checking the FoI spreadsheet (the .csv version) and some stations seem to be missing from the list (there are 272 stations on the network but the query returned only 267). These include Wimbledon, Richmond, Upminster, Kensington (Olympia) and Paddington is only listed once. The first 3 are non-TfL managed stations and Kensington (Olympia) is a limited-service station.

 

[EllieAquitrain]

Well maybe, but that doesn't really account for Canary Wharf then featuring prominently in the list at all.

Canary Wharf to London Bridge is a surprise to be up at the top, because of all the different shortcuts available for journeys which might continue from there on mainline trains.

Perhaps commuters deliberately go via London Bridge in the evening to guarantee a seat (on Southern)?

 

[181]

I agree it's a good route for those in the know, and the change at Edgware Road or Oxford Circus probably offsets any slight time saving that might result from arriving via Praed Street. But for those not in the know, arriving by a back entrance over a twisty footbridge with almost no station facilities is a bit offputting, so I suggest many will choose to go via the main concourse.

Those not at all in the know will probably just see Paddington on the map and be surprised not to arrive near the main concourse, but as you say, the next time they may choose to change at Edgware Road.

 

[etr221]

I am checking the FoI spreadsheet (the .csv version) and some stations seem to be missing from the list (there are 272 stations on the network but the query returned only 267). These include Wimbledon, Richmond, Upminster, Kensington (Olympia) and Paddington is only listed once. The first 3 are non-TfL managed stations and Kensington (Olympia) is a limited-service station.

My list of excluded stations was: Kensington O (LO), Richmond (SWT), Upminster (C2C), Willesden Jn (LO), Wimbledon (SWT). All not LU operated (along with Barking and Heathrow T5, according to Jago Hazzard)
Wrongly (?) included (not an LU station) was Surrey Quays.
I took it that - for this purpose - Paddington was regarded as one (LU) station (or it would have had differenting identities)

 

[leytongabriel]

A direct Hammersmith / Circle line train runs between Kings Cross and Paddington every 5 minutes.

To the far end of Paddington station, a fair old traipse from most long distance trains coming in at low number platforms compared to just diving into the Circle/District platforms like we used to be able to do.

Waterloo -Liverpool St?

 

[Mojo]

To the far end of Paddington station, a fair old traipse from most long distance trains coming in at low number platforms compared to just diving into the Circle/District platforms like we used to be able to do.

ls this really any more inconvenient given there are footbridges that offer access to these platforms?

 

[miklcct]

Waterloo -Liverpool St?

This is really annoying.

If I aim for the East Anglia line I always transfer at Stratford instead. If I aim for West Anglia line north of Tottenham Hale I will use Tottenham Hale, possibility alighting at Vauxhall at the first place.

 

[jumble]

A direct Hammersmith / Circle line train runs between Kings Cross and Paddington every 5 minutes.

In theory yes
Those of us who use it know different

Possibly. The running time for the Victoria Line is about five minutes quicker between the two. There is cross platform interchange between Piccadilly w/b and Victoria s/b at Finsbury Park. The change at Green Park is far less friendly involving three flights of stairs (though there is lift access but of course that would usually take longer). Although this is nowhere near as long as changes to/from the Jubilee (with the Jubilee Platforms seemingly somewhere under Buckingham Palace by my reckoning ). But it's still a hoof. But even with immediate connections at both ends, I doubt there'd be much, if anything, of an advantage

I think the Jubilee running time advantage is similarly about five minutes. The change from n/b Bakerloo to n/b Jubilee is (from memory, I haven't been there for a while) particularly cumbersome, involving a number of passageways and a travelator. The change between n/b Jubilee and n/b Bakerloo at Baker Street is cross platform. Once again, I would be surprised if there was much of an advantage even with good connections.

Some examples of walking instead of taking the tube spring to mind. Blackfriars to Farringdon is a ten minute brisk walk but it's nine stops on the Circle Line and with the usual dwell at Aldgate would usually take twenty minutes. Then there are ridiculous examples such as Bayswater to Queensway and probably the most exasperating of all, between the two Hammersmiths, which are about 70 metres apart. Or 15 stops and two changes (unless you use the Wood Lane/White City OOS interchange which cuts it down to just eleven stops but three changes).

If changing between the Piccadilly and Jubilee at Green Park there is at least 50% less walking if you go up the escalator to the ticket hall and back down
(I haven't done that since yesterday LOL )

 

[methethpropbut]

Waterloo -Liverpool St?

To go slightly off topic, had to do Liverpool Street - Clapham Junction a few times a few years ago. That took three trains at the fastest route, with each train being just one stop

 

[MikeWM]

I suspect a lot of people take a suboptimal route between these two via the Northern line and then Piccadilly line (change at Leicester Sq) or Victoria line (change at Warren St), as they look like they make sense from the Tube map, rather than the Bakerloo + Victoria line route via an easy level change (essentially 'cross-platform') at Oxford Circus.

I'm not convinced Northern/Piccadilly is suboptimal, at least not if you're ok with a few stairs at Leicester Square and know which end of the platform to start from so you're in the right place for the interchange passages. The time spent on trains is slightly less (~11 minutes vs ~12 minutes via Oxford Circus). I always preferred to go this way, and it is a journey I used to do *a lot*.

Though to be fair, with the Piccadilly line appearing to be significantly less reliable and much more prone to severe bunching than a decade ago, this may *now* be falling into the suboptimal category.

 

[MontyP]

From the southern end of the Northern Line, it's quicker to change at Stockwell onto the Victoria Line for Euston or Kings Cross than it is to stay on the Northern Line (regardless of whether it is a City or Charing Cross service). Travelling recently from Finchley to Balham, I changed at Euston and Stockwell rather than stay on the direct train.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

This is really annoying.

If I aim for the East Anglia line I always transfer at Stratford instead. If I aim for West Anglia line north of Tottenham Hale I will use Tottenham Hale, possibility alighting at Vauxhall at the first place.

There used to be the very useful bus 26 which ran between Waterloo and Liverpool Street, which I have used between the two terminals many times. It picked up and dropped off right outside the stations, and if I recall correctly, it only took around 15 minutes - saving a journey with a change on the Underground.

Unfortunately, the route is no more, as per TfL's usual stupidly thought-out bus changes. It now runs from Victoria instead, so from Waterloo you're left with no option but to change somewhere unless you fork out for a taxi.

 

[Enthusiast]

It picked up and dropped off right outside the stations, and if I recall correctly, it only took around 15 minutes -

If you travelled very early morning or in the evening you might just make it in 15 minutes. During the middle of the day the scheduled time was nearer half an hour and in practice it often took much longer than that. Here's the timetable from 2002:

https://www.londonbuses.co.uk/old-tt/026N26-2002.png

 

[AlbertBeale]

There used to be the very useful bus 26 which ran between Waterloo and Liverpool Street, which I have used between the two terminals many times. It picked up and dropped off right outside the stations, and if I recall correctly, it only took around 15 minutes - saving a journey with a change on the Underground.

Unfortunately, the route is no more, as per TfL's usual stupidly thought-out bus changes. It now runs from Victoria instead, so from Waterloo you're left with no option but to change somewhere unless you fork out for a taxi.

The direct bus links between major train stations - where there isn't a direct tube link - have been disappearing (ie Waterloo-KX/StP went a few years back); TfL seem to be making really silly decisions on what buses to get rid of as part of their central London bus cutbacks.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

If you travelled very early morning or in the evening you might just make it in 15 minutes. During the middle of the day the scheduled time was nearer half an hour and in practice it often took much longer than that. Here's the timetable from 2002:

https://www.londonbuses.co.uk/old-tt/026N26-2002.png

That's fair enough. Admittedly, it was indeed mostly early mornings and evenings when I have used the route; I do seem to recall the roads always being empty when I've used it. Nevertheless, it was still very useful to avoid a change, particularly if you had luggage, etc.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

When I lived near Marble Arch, there always seemed to be a lot of people waiting at the stop for buses in the Victoria direction. Generally, the bus was quicker and certainly easier than Central Line to Oxford Circus and then the Victoria line.

 

[Taunton]

Paddington to Victoria (yes, that's Taunton to the Continent in old days!) has always been difficult. The Circle is theoretically direct, and I suspect a few visitors still do, but goes a very long way round (and is not that frrequent). Bakerloo then Victoria, changing at Oxford Circus, was I think described in the original Victoria line publicity when it opened as one of the benefits of the new line. Still a bit of a dogleg.

Paddington to places on the Jubilee Line, changing from the Bakerloo at Baker Street, also seems to be constantly busy in the cross-passages there.

 

[sir_gummerz]

Quote from the DG blog:

“Then it's North Greenwich to Canary Wharf and back again. It's only a one stop journey but it helps a lot of south London residents get to work in Docklands.”

Excuse me for being thick, but how do all those south London residents get to North Greenwich in the first place? It isn’t a tube or DLR interchange and the housing round it is still pretty sparse. Does it have lots of buses?

They are traveling on the true workers chariot, the Emirates air line sorry, IFS cloud cable car. Not uncommon to see pods with 50+ passengers on board during the peak hours.

Jokes aside, it's got a pretty sizable bus station, also alot of new build flats popping up

 

[DanNCL]

For King’s Cross to Paddington I’ll go down to the subsurface platforms at King’s Cross St Pancras and take the first westbound train regardless where it’s going. If it’s a Hammersmith train then I take it through to Paddington, if it’s a Met line train then I change to the Bakerloo at Baker Street. Time wise I’ve always found both to be about the same.

 

[Mikey C]

High St Ken/Notting Hill etc to Baker Street is a slower journey since they split the Circle Line, requiring a change at Edgware Road to go one stop.

Indeed it's even worse from south of there, with half coming from Gloucester Road, and half from Earl's Court, giving a 10 minute frequency between those stations and Edgware Road.

 

[AlbertBeale]

High St Ken/Notting Hill etc to Baker Street is a slower journey since they split the Circle Line, requiring a change at Edgware Road to go one stop.

Indeed it's even worse from south of there, with half coming from Gloucester Road, and half from Earl's Court, giving a 10 minute frequency between those stations and Edgware Road.

Yes - that south-west corner of the "circle" always feels slow and clunky (exacerbated since they de-circled the Circle of course). It's never obvious whether it's worth getting the wrong train and doubling back round the triangle at Earls Court - depending on connections it can be so marginal that you might as well wait. With the break in the Circle, it would have been helpful to offset the delays this caused by having a higher frequency on that bit of the Circle/District. It does seem a bit infrequent for a central part of the system.