Trivia: Reopenings that have been "Proposed" the longest.

[tavistock]

Yes but other locals want it as a heavy freight line to Pelaw Jn, or a local passenger line bypassing Durham to
Pelaw, then Network Rail have suggested a partial diversionary route just to bypass Durham at higher speed, but rejoining the ECML south of Chester-le-street.

Anything you can possibly think of gets proposed and they all conflict with each other as far as I can see…

Anything would be better than leaving it in its present state. The metro option would seem the most sensible.

 

[D365]

Have there been any line (as opposed to station) closures, in the past fifty years or sixty years or so, where there hasn't subsequently been any serious reopening proposals?

How serious were the proposals for Huntingdon-Cambridge in the 90s?

 

[DH1Commuter]

Anything would be better than leaving it in its present state. The metro option would seem the most sensible.

Leamside's problems are two:

1) No ONE clear primary purpose (metro vs stopper vs freight vs high speed).

2) No one sponsoring council/LA - it passes through Durham, Sunderland, South Tyneside and Gateshead (let's leave aside that funding decisions for Metro also affect Newcastle and North Tyneside).

A shame, as Metro to East Gateshead/Washington (inc Nissan)/Houghton/Durham Belmont P&R (latter at A1/A690 junction, noting that road access from East Durham and villages to Durham station now is dire, with it all having to go through a congested city centre) would have potential, and no reason that provision for freight/heavy rail diversion could not be added, as it is on the Metro south of the Tyne already. However, the voices calling for it to be a high-speed route won't go away, and in the meantime the route degrades further.

 

[Irascible]

Poor old Portishead. Decision due Oct 19, now April 2022. It certainly is in the vice like grip of GRIP.
Home: Portishead Railway Group

Okehampton started later but, will reopen so much earlier.

Devon CC have been trying to get it reopened since... not much after it closed, iirc! been running their sunday trains for a very long time now.

I remember trains to not-quite-Portishead whenever GW150 happened ( 1985? ) - I don't remember if I went on one, but I also don't remember any serious ideas about reopening it. Having been up & down the gorge regularily by then & seen the track still there but not doing anything I did wonder why it wasn't pulled up.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Bradford Market Street/Forster Square to Bradford Exchange/Interchange has been spoken about for over a century but is no nearer happening than it was in Victorian times. The two stations are further apart than they used to be in those days as both have moved a few chains out of town since. In fact Bradford may well end up with three stations if NPR ever reaches the city.

The two preserved railways in Loughborough are forging ahead with their link and put Bradford to shame.

(There used to be an indirect cross Bradford link via Laisterdyke, Eccleshill and Shipley but that is long gone)

 

[paddy1]

Re-opening of stations at Donington and Pinchbeck, Lincolnshire on the Spalding to Sleaford line was often discussed years ago but has since gone quiet. Not sure about Pinchbeck as it's so close to Spalding but re-opening Donington seem like a no brainer and low cost quick win to me. It has everything already in place apart from platforms, which would be unstaffed and could be done relatively cheaply.

Existing line passing right by it with recently enhanced passenger service now hourly all day between Lincoln and Peterborough instead of ending around 4pm. Trains to places people people are likely to want to go to - Spalding, Sleaford, Lincoln, Peterborough and (by changing at Sleaford) Grantham/Boston/Nottingham. Line speed now up to 75 miles per hour and village/town population of over 7,000 (significantly larger than both Metheringham and Ruskington re-opened on the same line some years ago) providing extra patronage on existing trains that are far from busy south of Sleaford. All it needs is to make an additional stop (on what is a relatively slack schedule timing wise) and new some platforms. No new track, line re-opening, trains, staff or signalling needed. Seems like an opportunity missed or wasted.

 

[Bald Rick]

Re-opening of stations at Donington and Pinchbeck, Lincolnshire on the Spalding to Sleaford line was often discussed years ago but has since gone quiet. Not sure about Pinchbeck as it's so close to Spalding but re-opening Donington seem like a no brainer and low cost quick win to me. It has everything already in place apart from platforms, which would be unstaffed and could be done relatively cheaply.

Existing line passing right by it with recently enhanced passenger service now hourly all day between Lincoln and Peterborough instead of ending around 4pm. Trains to places people people are likely to want to go to - Spalding, Sleaford, Lincoln, Peterborough and (by changing at Sleaford) Grantham/Boston/Nottingham. Line speed now up to 75 miles per hour and village/town population of over 7,000 (significantly larger than both Metheringham and Ruskington re-opened on the same line some years ago) providing extra patronage on existing trains that are far from busy south of Sleaford. All it needs is to make an additional stop (on what is a relatively slack schedule timing wise) and new some platforms. No new track, line re-opening, trains, staff or signalling needed. Seems like an opportunity missed or wasted.

No one applied for it in the Restoring Your Railway funding rounds. Therefore it is not going to get central government funding though that process.

 

[paddy1]

No one applied for it in the Restoring Your Railway funding rounds. Therefore it is not going to get central government funding though that process.

That does seem such a waste, especially when remote 'wayside shacks' in parts of Lincolnshire get regular services.

 

[Bald Rick]

That does seem such a waste, especially when remote 'wayside shacks' in parts of Lincolnshire get regular services.

they are already there, of course.

 

[Washington]

they are already there, of course.

I know this would be speculation but couldn't someone sponsor a station rebuilding in a slightly different place for instance repositioning Havenhouse and renaming it Donington Havenhouse, MK Dons style?

 

[tavistock]

Leamside's problems are two:

1) No ONE clear primary purpose (metro vs stopper vs freight vs high speed).

2) No one sponsoring council/LA - it passes through Durham, Sunderland, South Tyneside and Gateshead (let's leave aside that funding decisions for Metro also affect Newcastle and North Tyneside).

A shame, as Metro to East Gateshead/Washington (inc Nissan)/Houghton/Durham Belmont P&R (latter at A1/A690 junction, noting that road access from East Durham and villages to Durham station now is dire, with it all having to go through a congested city centre) would have potential, and no reason that provision for freight/heavy rail diversion could not be added, as it is on the Metro south of the Tyne already. However, the voices calling for it to be a high-speed route won't go away, and in the meantime the route degrades further.

Pity the two proposals are seen to be mutually exclusive. Can’t see why the metro option can’t be achieved. It would be similar to the system already in existence between Gateshead and Sunderland just a few miles to the north

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Bradford Market Street/Forster Square to Bradford Exchange/Interchange has been spoken about for over a century but is no nearer happening than it was in Victorian times. The two stations are further apart than they used to be in those days as both have moved a few chains out of town since. In fact Bradford may well end up with three stations if NPR ever reaches the city.

The two preserved railways in Loughborough are forging ahead with their link and put Bradford to shame.

(There used to be an indirect cross Bradford link via Laisterdyke, Eccleshill and Shipley but that is long gone)

There's a good reason it never got built though- it wouldn't actually solve any major problems, and would inconvenience more passengers than it would help. The relatively small number of Brighouse to Shipley or Pudsey to Bingley passengers wouldn't make up for all the Halifax to Leeds passengers whose journey times would be increased by sending them via Shipley.

The Loughborough link is a reinstatement, but Bradford wouldn't be.

 

[McRhu]

Glasgow Crossrail....

 

[JKF]

I remember trains to not-quite-Portishead whenever GW150 happened ( 1985? ) - I don't remember if I went on one, but I also don't remember any serious ideas about reopening it. Having been up & down the gorge regularily by then & seen the track still there but not doing anything I did wonder why it wasn't pulled up.

Portishead line was mooted for restoration as part of the proposed Avon Metro scheme in the mid 80s, Wikipedia tells me Advanced Transport for Avon was put forward in 1987 but there were definitely noises about it a lot earlier than that. I might have some newspaper cuttings on it somewhere.

The GWR 150 trains did get pretty close to the end, there was a runaround loop more or less where they recently wanted to put a new station (behind Waitrose carpark I think) until the Quay’s Avenue level crossing fiasco ruled that out. Pretty sure the track work is still there. The original station building still existed as a petrol station at that time, but was later demolished and a new structure put up. If we wait long enough for the GRIP process to conclude we’ll have electric autonomously driven cars that won’t need petrol stations and will always stop at level crossings so they’ll be able to put it back pretty much how it was.

More seriously I’ve been told the latest 6-month extension is because they want to make sure all the environmental reports are watertight as they’re worried about being challenged on this, but I’ve no idea on where this anticipated challenge might come from, the most environmentally sensitive sections of the line are already open for traffic, nothing stands out on the rest apart from possibly some noise disturbance for the residents of the old station at Portbury.

 

[A0wen]

Bradford Market Street/Forster Square to Bradford Exchange/Interchange has been spoken about for over a century but is no nearer happening than it was in Victorian times. The two stations are further apart than they used to be in those days as both have moved a few chains out of town since. In fact Bradford may well end up with three stations if NPR ever reaches the city.

The two preserved railways in Loughborough are forging ahead with their link and put Bradford to shame.

Bit in bold - I'm not sure that's a fair or valid comparison. The GCR link is reinstating an old line, requires no significant demolition or anything like that - yet it will still have taken a couple of decades by the time it is completed.

Bradford on the other hand would need significant demolition to achieve and apart from eliminating some reversals it's not clear what the actual benefits would be.

 

[Brush 4]

Liam Fox slams Environmental groups for Portishead Rail halt | North Somerset Times

If it becomes a bus route, where does the Portbury Docks freight go, onto lorries?

 

[zwk500]

Liam Fox slams Environmental groups for Portishead Rail halt | North Somerset Times

If it becomes a bus route, where does the Portbury Docks freight go, onto lorries?

Tramway?

 

[JKF]

Liam Fox slams Environmental groups for Portishead Rail halt | North Somerset Times

If it becomes a bus route, where does the Portbury Docks freight go, onto lorries?

There isn’t any at the moment!

it’s a preposterous idea with many flaws, I’m not sure why anyone should be giving Mr Cash any attention at all. Where busways have been installed in the U.K. they’ve generally worked out more expensive. The only benefit would be serving the town better, as the rail station only reaches the outskirts.

 

[WesternBiker]

Watford - Croxley has reared its head again: https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/c...ght-for-watford-to-croxley-link/60438.article

Creative proposals sought for Watford to Croxley link

UK: ‘Creative and holistic’ proposals are being sought from suppliers, operators and research organisations interested in partnering with Hertfordshire County Council to develop conceptual designs for ‘a new and future-ready transport system’ linking Watford Junction and Croxley using a disused rail alignment

The council plans to appoint a number of consortia early next year to independently develop ideas based on a wide range of potential options, including active travel, e-mobility, autonomous shared mobility such as pod vehicles or various forms of mass rapid transit.

The council would oversee the development of design concepts in collaboration with Watford Borough and Three Rivers councils, Network Rail and Transport for London.

The previous Croxley Rail Link project to divert London Underground’s Metropolitan Line over the disused railway was granted legal powers in 2013, with opening initially planned for 2016. However, costs increased and the scheme was eventually cancelled as being unaffordable.

Earlier this year Steer produced an updated report into strategic transport needs in the corridor.

The report is a revised version of the 2019 report - with the addition of some new 'creative' ideas such as on-demand pods. I'm happy to eat my hat if those ever see the light of day...

 

[D365]

Watford - Croxley has reared its head again: https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/c...ght-for-watford-to-croxley-link/60438.article


The report is a revised version of the 2019 report - with the addition of some new 'creative' ideas such as on-demand pods. I'm happy to eat my hat if those ever see the light of day...

Why not just more 484s?

 

[reb0118]

Oh, absolutely. There are certain people who won't ever shut up about that, despite the fact that there's no platform capacity at Waverley, and for most areas, the journey times to the city centre can't compete with the buses.

Platform & track access issues between Portobello Jn. & Haymarket Central aside I think that the Edinburgh Suburban line could be very successful.

There are some similarities with Glasgow's Cathcart circle. What I notice when working my E&G services is that there are many passengers originating from stations on the Cathcart Circle. I would envisage a similar demand from/to the "Southside" of Scotland's capital city. Most of the station sites are situated near high density housing & many are close to employment/educational/retail/leisure opportunities.

However, as stated above, the lack of capacity between Portobello & Haymarket scuppers any proposal.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why not just more 484s?

Why not the extra unit of S8 stock already delivered for the project?

 

[D365]

Why not the extra unit of S8 stock already delivered for the project?

I was going along with the idea of some kind of shuttle service!

 

[WesternBiker]

I was going along with the idea of some kind of shuttle service!

The report rules out the original linking-up proposal as unaffordable - and goes on to rule out the other heavy-rail options on affordability grounds also.

It's actually a classic consultancy report of its type: lots of options and a very qualitative assessment, very rough costings, and no formal cost-benefit analysis. It doesn't even mention the effect of the pandemic on demand... But it'll give something for a local councillor to quote to get themselves in the local paper.

The bit I liked was the proposal for a tram which involved "duelling" (sic) the St Albans Abbey line. Pistols at dawn...

 

[SargeNpton]

Glasgow Crossrail....

Project cancelled by the Scottish government back in 2008...

New bridge and better roads ... but Crossrail is off the table

FORTH CROSSING

www.heraldscotland.com

 

[JKF]

The report rules out the original linking-up proposal as unaffordable - and goes on to rule out the other heavy-rail options on affordability grounds also.

It's actually a classic consultancy report of its type: lots of options and a very qualitative assessment, very rough costings, and no formal cost-benefit analysis. It doesn't even mention the effect of the pandemic on demand... But it'll give something for a local councillor to quote to get themselves in the local paper.

The bit I liked was the proposal for a tram which involved "duelling" (sic) the St Albans Abbey line. Pistols at dawn...

Wasn’t one of the issues with the earlier failed scheme that the council decided their contribution to the cost would be the land value of the trackbed (assessed at several million) which they would be providing for the project. Which seemed a bit cheeky given they’d bought it off Network Rail for a quid not long before.

 

[WesternBiker]

Wasn’t one of the issues with the earlier failed scheme that the council decided their contribution to the cost would be the land value of the trackbed (assessed at several million) which they would be providing for the project. Which seemed a bit cheeky given they’d bought it off Network Rail for a quid not long before.

I can't recall the details - but unsurprisingly, the report makes no mention of it...

 

[Julia]

How serious were the proposals for Huntingdon-Cambridge in the 90s?

Cambridge to just short of St Ives was still operational until the early 90s - and saw the occasional charter train (which took forever because of all the manual level crossings). St Ives itself was severed by its bypass and a crossing would have been very unlikely, but a terminal station where the big busway car park is now would have been feasible. St Ives - Huntingdon East was crayonista-land with the A14 and lots of other development in the way.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Why not the extra unit of S8 stock already delivered for the project?

Along with some sets released from subtle timetable changes as a result of the reduced footfall from Metroland to London Zone 1. Presume no-one , or maybe someone , has factored in no fresh air trains to Watford Met and recycled this dead mileage into something a bit more useful in terms of connectivity towards a major Hospital complex (rebuilding a source of bitter controversy locally) . as well as massively developing Watford town centre etc.

More than "pods" I suspect - someone needs to get a serious hold on project delivery costs for this piece of network expansion.

 

[D365]

Cambridge to just short of St Ives was still operational until the early 90s - and saw the occasional charter train (which took forever because of all the manual level crossings). St Ives itself was severed by its bypass and a crossing would have been very unlikely, but a terminal station where the big busway car park is now would have been feasible. St Ives - Huntingdon East was crayonista-land with the A14 and lots of other development in the way.

I did review the County Council promotional flyer after making that post. As you’ve pointed out, finding a route westwards would be incredibly difficult, even with the A14 diversion now in place.

St Ives - Cambridge was the 90s proposal and could indeed have been possible, as evidenced by the busway.