Trivia: Services, stops and extensions that only exist for operational convenience

[Jim]

The direct peak services between Tweedbank and South Gyle/Fife? I don't know for definite that it's for operational convenience, but at a guess there can't be many other reasons that only a few services a day run such a service.

South Gyle has always to be seemed quite a well used station for whatever is nearby, so may well be some through demand, bearing in mind they also have grippers there every morning and evening.

 

[PG]

South Gyle has always to be seemed quite a well used station for whatever is nearby, so may well be some through demand, bearing in mind they also have grippers there every morning and evening.

Such as Edinburgh Park, a business park with several large financial institutions as well as other large companies. One or more may have had some bearing on there being such through services?

 

[aliceh]

I can't speak for how much passenger demand there is on it (I suspect there probably was a fair bit), but in non-covid times, there were a couple of SWR morning services that ran from Branksome to Waterloo instead of Bournemouth to Waterloo purely because they had to reverse in Branksome station anyway to get out of Bournemouth depot.

 

[xotGD]

TPE extending to Redcar, as it is somewhere that is easier for the driver to change ends once 68s are introduced than in a siding just outside Middlesbrough.

 

[Steve Harris]

I think that this thread has got a bit diverted to discussing where precisely some nineteenth century entrepreneur build a London terminus and also places that happen to be paired up as through trains (which would run from Town A into the Big City anyway, it just happens that it's operationally convenient to extend them through to Town B on the other side, but that doesn't involve any more mileage so the service isn't artificially higher/lower over any part of track than would ordinarily be the case)

Instead, I'd focus on examples like:

• Many diversions for route knowledge purposes - passenger inconvenienced by the fact that a service takes significantly longer to suit the need to keep staff trained. Other than banks (which are traditionally closed for the first half hour on a Wednesday morning), there aren't a lot of UK businesses that impose the costs/hassle of staff training on their customers. There are a number of services that take longer late in the evening so that the service can run via some little used line. For example, around Sheffield there are some services from the north that avoid Meadowhall by run non-stop through Rotherham Central and alongside the Supertram route past the back of the Arena onto the Darnall Line at Woodburn into Sheffield that way... and/or run south of Sheffield via the Woodburn line again, through Darnall, turning right to take the "Old Road" south past Rother Valley and to Chesterfield that way (avoiding Dronfield). Some Sheffield - Nottingham services avoid Alfreton/ Ilkeston by running via Derby for route knowledge purposes. That kind of thing. Happens all over the country - same with services that avoid some intermediate stops late in the evening in case there's diversions for engineering.
• Huddersfield - Castleford. The whopping fourteen miles from Huddersfield to Wakefield was simply too far for one train to be able to cope with a diagram that required it to meet an hourly service, so a second DMU was required - in which case, why not extend it to Castleford a year or two ago (i.e. the service was extended to justify the fact that a round trip of under thirty miles was too much for one train to manage in a single hour
• The late night Leeds - Ribblehead has been mentioned - operationally you'd terminate it at Settle but there aren't the facilities to permit this, so it has to run a bit further.
• The EMR Leeds services have also been mentioned - there are practically no passengers on these services - if anything they'd be busier in the opposite direction (Sheffield to Leeds in the morning peak) but the trains are maintained at Neville Hill, so might as well earn a few quid doing so. This feels like the kind of thing that has happened more in recent years, now that TOCs have an incentive to run a train in revenue earning service - even if hardly anyone uses it, you'd get some share of the revenue between the places in question due to ORCATS.
• Newcastle - Chathill. There's no reason to terminate at Chathill - there's practically nothing there - only a couple of passengers per train - the logical thing to do would be to run the peak "stopper" from either Berwick or Alnmouth - but terminating it at Chathill allows the service to reverse whilst not having to pay the track access charges all the way to Berwick
• Stockport - Stalybridge (until recently). Given the need to run one train a week on the line (to keep it officially "open"), I quite liked the way that Northern ran it, given that they had a diagram that terminated at Stockport after the morning rush hour, it was running light back to the depot anyway, so on Fridays that diagram was extended slightly so that they could tick the box without needing to run a separate service (this has all now changed, and it's become a return journey on Saturdays)

In that case, I will mention the very late evening/very early morning GTR trains from London to Cambridge/Peterborough via Hertford North. Surely done for route knowledge retention for when the ECML is closed (like today).

 

[91103eastcoast]

There is an evening train from Spalding to Nottingham via Peterborough/Manton/Syston North curve which I assume kills two birds with one stone:route retention for the route via Manton for EMR drivers and to get the stock back to the depot at Nottingham.

 

[LowLevel]

There is an evening train from Spalding to Nottingham via Peterborough/Manton/Syston North curve which I assume kills two birds with one stone:route retention for the route via Manton for EMR drivers and to get the stock back to the depot at Nottingham.

That train from May becomes even more curious - 2012 departure from Peterborough having arrived from Lincoln, into Leicester and back out at 2130 carrying on all stops to Nottingham.

Realtime Trains - 2K32 2012 Peterborough to Nottingham

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[TB]

The evening Ribblehead is definitely extended that far as it'd have to run to Blea Morr to turn anyway, so might as well serve Horton & Ribblehead while doing so.

The talk of Steeton to Skipton may come from the days of the 70's & 80's (before electrification and Steeton opening) where there was only an hourly service to/from Skipton which ran to Leeds and services from Bradford ran only as far as Keighley.
A similar arrangement was in place on the Ilkley line for a time back then with just Leeds trains running to/from Ilkley with Bradford trains running no further than Guiseley. Doesn't quite fit the spirit of the question though.

One i can think of that hasn't been mentioned is the extension of one Leeds to Morecambe trains on a Sunday through to Heysham. Mon-Sat it's the local shuttle that serves the port, but the majority of services on a Sunday between Lancaster and Morecambe are either through from Leeds or worked by that unit between arriving over from Yorkshire and going back again. Saves Northern warming up a unit for a few trundles along the branch and back.

Am i right in thinking the main reason for the extension of Huddersfield to Wakefield Kirkgate trains through to Castleford was stabling issues at Kirkgate?

Other than that, i'm sure there are a few stops at rural stations that would be cut were it not for token exchanges.

 

[southern442]

The evening Ribblehead is definitely extended that far as it'd have to run to Blea Morr to turn anyway, so might as well serve Horton & Ribblehead while doing so.

This would surely be a candidate for worst service to accidentally fall asleep on

 

[yorksrob]

The evening Ribblehead is definitely extended that far as it'd have to run to Blea Morr to turn anyway, so might as well serve Horton & Ribblehead while doing so.

The talk of Steeton to Skipton may come from the days of the 70's & 80's (before electrification and Steeton opening) where there was only an hourly service to/from Skipton which ran to Leeds and services from Bradford ran only as far as Keighley.
A similar arrangement was in place on the Ilkley line for a time back then with just Leeds trains running to/from Ilkley with Bradford trains running no further than Guiseley. Doesn't quite fit the spirit of the question though.

One i can think of that hasn't been mentioned is the extension of one Leeds to Morecambe trains on a Sunday through to Heysham. Mon-Sat it's the local shuttle that serves the port, but the majority of services on a Sunday between Lancaster and Morecambe are either through from Leeds or worked by that unit between arriving over from Yorkshire and going back again. Saves Northern warming up a unit for a few trundles along the branch and back.

Am i right in thinking the main reason for the extension of Huddersfield to Wakefield Kirkgate trains through to Castleford was stabling issues at Kirkgate?

Other than that, i'm sure there are a few stops at rural stations that would be cut were it not for token exchanges.

The evening Ribblehead is very handy for getting back from the Station Inn.

Whilst there is an element of getting the unit out of the way at Wakefield, I think Huddersfield - Castleford was a genuine attempt to improve connectivity between those places. There were certainly usually a smattering of people on them East of Wakefield, and the connections at Wakefield prior to that were certainly pretty ropey.

Sadly Huddersfield - Castleford seems to have largely dissappeared since lockdown 1.

This would surely be a candidate for worst service to accidentally fall asleep on

Depends entirely on whether the said Inn is full up !

 

[Carlisle]

Services to Ore spring to mind...

Almost exclusively down to that location being at the end of the 3rd Rail system

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Almost exclusively down to that location being at the end of the 3rd Rail system

The electrified up siding just beyond platform 2 at Ore (before the longish Ore tunnel) probably also serves as a convenient temporary stabling point (before workings return back towards Hastings).

 

[Revilo]

Coryton to Radyr in Cardiff seems to be a combining of two routes for operational convenience, given how close the destinations are, almost forming a circle. It would be quicker to walk than go by train end to end.

 

[bramling]

Almost exclusively down to that location being at the end of the 3rd Rail system

I think it’s more to get units out of the way at Hastings, whose three platforms would otherwise be a little congested with the number of services terminating there combined with the hourly Ashford through service.

IIRC at some point most of the terminating services from the Eastbourne direction were extended empty to Ore to reverse, then at some point it was decided they might as well run in service - this might have coincided with the start of the Brighton to Ashford service which ran fast through Ore.

No doubt the main reason for any electric services historically reaching Ore was the presence of the carriage shed there, long since disappeared and the site now occupied by housing (albeit with a SR substation oddly placed right in the middle!).

 

[Taunton]

The electrification to Hastings in the 1930s was indeed extended through to Ore because Hastings station is on a very tight site, and electric services terminated there from the start. There used to be a substantial EMU depot at Ore. There were some comparable ones elsewhere on the Southern Electric, stations like Addiscombe or Coulsdon North. Likewise the steam loco shed for Hastings had to be the other way, at St Leonards, which later became the diesel depot.

Regarding route knowledge diversions, that is a feature of privatisation; in times past there would be normal daily duties from a depot which covered all the routes and which came your way at intervals. Come separate TOCs, incompatible trains with incompatible controls, and all that, and it's not seen as possible even to swap things around to handle this. The GWR and the Southern used to have a couple of duties on normal trains on each other's lines between Exeter and Plymouth, and some other lines in the area (Barnstaple crews knew the way through Taunton right to Yeovil Junction), all specifically so they knew the alternatives.

 

[yorksrob]

I think it’s more to get units out of the way at Hastings, whose three platforms would otherwise be a little congested with the number of services terminating there combined with the hourly Ashford through service.

IIRC at some point most of the terminating services from the Eastbourne direction were extended empty to Ore to reverse, then at some point it was decided they might as well run in service - this might have coincided with the start of the Brighton to Ashford service which ran fast through Ore.

No doubt the main reason for any electric services historically reaching Ore was the presence of the carriage shed there, long since disappeared and the site now occupied by housing (albeit with a SR substation oddly placed right in the middle!).

Your post prompted me to look at Ore on google maps and the new estate does make the area look a lot less intimidating than previously. The vintage SR substation does make for an interesting feature !

Of course, the other benefit of terminating trains at Ore is that the Ashford - Eastbourne service can miss it out.

 

[PHILIPE]

Coryton to Radyr in Cardiff seems to be a combining of two routes for operational convenience, given how close the destinations are, almost forming a circle. It would be quicker to walk than go by train end to end.

I doubt anybody travels end to end. The majority would travel into Cardiff and then back home again.

 

[Carlisle]

There used to be a substantial EMU depot at Ore.

Interesting, so presumably the former shed at West Worthing served an identical purpose for the western boundary of the 3rd rail

 

[Journeyman]

Your post prompted me to look at Ore on google maps and the new estate does make the area look a lot less intimidating than previously. The vintage SR substation does make for an interesting feature !

It is quite odd to see that in the middle of a very non-railway street scene! I always rather liked those buildings.

 

[yorksrob]

It is quite odd to see that in the middle of a very non-railway street scene! I always rather liked those buildings.

They're certainly very distinctive !

 

[OliverH68]

The 1Gxx Waterloo - Portsmouth via Cobbham services spring to mind, as these only ran in the peaks pre-covid, presumably to maintain route knowledge via Cobbham as well as acting as a diversionary route in the event of engineering work.

 

[Dibbo4025]

The 1Gxx Waterloo - Portsmouth via Cobbham services spring to mind, as these only ran in the peaks pre-covid, presumably to maintain route knowledge via Cobbham as well as acting as a diversionary route in the event of engineering work.

Also to avoid Woking Junction - whilst the evening service just about could be pathed across and do so in dusruption, the morning is harder so running via Cobham is easier operationally

 

[Ianno87]

The daily LNER Glasgow service, to access stabling at Polmadie (though I think it is specified in the Train Service Requirement too)

 

[galwhv69]

Guessing all "Staff Halts" (such as Wimbledon) count?

 

[Llandudno]

Merseyrail services run from Chester to Chester via the Liverpool loop, of course!

 

[SargeNpton]

Merseyrail services run from Chester to Chester via the Liverpool loop, of course!

Also Ellesmere Port, West Kirby and New Brighton - and similar circular services out of Waterloo, Cannon Street, Luton and Glasgow Central.

 

[bramling]

Also Ellesmere Port, West Kirby and New Brighton - and similar circular services out of Waterloo, Cannon Street, Luton and Glasgow Central.

Thameslink has some extensions of both the Sutton and Rainham services from/to Bedford, in order to access stabling there. This is largely because Bedford has very limited 12-car stabling, so it’s necessary for a number of 12-car units to run south (empty) to Cricklewood to stable, whilst a similar number of 8-cars have to run north to Bedford in consequence, most of the latter tending to run in service.

It’s similar on the GN side, with a number of 700/1s stabling at Hornsey. There’s four early morning 700/1 services originating from Hornsey which run empty to King’s Cross, two of which then run in service to Cambridge and two to Peterborough. None of these services carry more than single figure passenger numbers, sometimes they can leave King’s Cross with zero passengers even in normal times. Pre May 2018 the early morning GTR service out of King’s Cross was only a couple of services, now between 0500 and 0630 the normal timetable has something like seven fast services to Cambridge/Peterborough between 0500 and 0630.

 

[Horizon22]

Services to Ore spring to mind...

Southeastern are attempting to withdraw their few services to Ore and had put out a consultation which I think was scuppered by Covid.

I think it’s more to get units out of the way at Hastings, whose three platforms would otherwise be a little congested with the number of services terminating there combined with the hourly Ashford through service.

IIRC at some point most of the terminating services from the Eastbourne direction were extended empty to Ore to reverse, then at some point it was decided they might as well run in service - this might have coincided with the start of the Brighton to Ashford service which ran fast through Ore.

No doubt the main reason for any electric services historically reaching Ore was the presence of the carriage shed there, long since disappeared and the site now occupied by housing (albeit with a SR substation oddly placed right in the middle!).

Yeah there can occasionally be clashes with SE terminating services so its just a convenient place to go, as well as the siding there. The Ashford services often rattle past whilst parked up there.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Southeastern are attempting to withdraw their few services to Ore and had put out a consultation which I think was scuppered by Covid.

It would surely be better to run the Southeastern services to Ore and the Southern Victoria services only to Hastings. Southeastern has the faster route to London, and Ore already has services to Eastbourne and Lewes. Anyway, that's straying into speculation!

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The daily LNER Glasgow service, to access stabling at Polmadie (though I think it is specified in the Train Service Requirement too)

Stabling at Polmadie is a consequence of the Train Service Requirement, if it terminated in Edinburgh the set would go to Craigentinny, but because there is a TSR requirement to take the train to Glasgow there will also be a clause in the servicing agreement with Hitachi that has one set at Polmadie.