Trivia - slowest express passenger train

[deltic]

Just looking at Realtime trains website and I see the the 19.34 Oban to London sleeper is booked to take 3hrs 54.5mins from Oban to Glasgow QS - a distance of 100 miles ie it manages an average speed of just a shade over 25mph. Is this the slowest average speed for an express train travelling over 100 miles on the network?

 

[Darandio]

I guess that 'express' needs defining. The sleeper is not an 'express' in my opinion.

 

[Gathursty]

A day train I have just seen on RTT takes 3hrs 6 minutes. A sleeper should go slower to enable people to sleep and to dovetail in with the Aberdeen abd Inverness portions at Edinburgh before trundling to London Euston through the night.

I would whinge at 100 miles = 3 hours 6 minutes though (32.3mph), however this should be restrained somewhat to reflect the demanding topography of Western Scotland and possible waiting times at key passing loops (Crianlarich?).

Feel free to open a thread to discuss improvements that can be made to the timings of WHL journeys.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Staying in Scotland I would say some of the Central Belt to Inverness workings, marketed as expresses but still in some cases rather sluggish are contenders.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you can go outside the UK, the "Glacier Express" tourist train in Switzerland I have seen quoted as it.

 

[Kite159]

A day train I have just seen on RTT takes 3hrs 6 minutes. A sleeper should go slower to enable people to sleep and to dovetail in with the Aberdeen abd Inverness portions at Edinburgh before trundling to London Euston through the night.

I would whinge at 100 miles = 3 hours 6 minutes though (32.3mph), however this should be restrained somewhat to reflect the demanding topography of Western Scotland and possible waiting times at key passing loops (Crianlarich?).

Feel free to open a thread to discuss improvements that can be made to the timings of WHL journeys.

Plus isn't there some speed restrictions for loco hauled stock on the West Highland Line for bridges/curves?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Surely an 'express' service is one with a 1XXX headcode?

 

[mp01]

Surely an 'express' service is one with a 1XXX headcode?

On that basis, the 1451 from Cardiff to Treherbert will take some beating - 82 minutes for 23 miles. The point is more that it always struck me as odd that they use 1XXX headcodes for the Treherbert trains that take the City Line.

 

[rg177]

1S08 0527 Woking to Waterloo via Hounslow takes 89 minutes to cover the 34 mile journey. Unlike the Treherbert example, it actually calls absolutely everywhere too.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Most SW class 1 services are slow, compared to the 70s & 80s, especially on the Portsmouth direct, WoE line and to some extent the Weymouth line where it has hardly changed since the discontinuation of the 33/1 & TC sets coupling & uncoupling at Bomo.

That was quicker in the steam days!.

You can drive from Guildford to Portsmouth quicker than a so called fast train and that's town to city centres, because the A3 tunnel.

 

[D6975]

Surely an 'express' service is one with a 1XXX headcode?

Not necessarily nowadays.
The Treherbert already mentioned is an example of a class 2 train with a class 1 headcode. Similarly but the other way around, Euston - Glasgow via Brum services have 9XXX headcodes despite clearly being express class 1 services.
The use of an unrepresentative headcode is simply to ease identification of the routes the services take. I'm sure there will be other examples of similar oddities.

 

[30907]

Most SW class 1 services are slow, compared to the 70s & 80s, especially on the Portsmouth direct, WoE line and to some extent the Weymouth line where it has hardly changed since the discontinuation of the 33/1 & TC sets coupling & uncoupling at Bomo.

That was quicker in the steam days!.

Afraid not. May not be any faster than in the days of CIGs/REPs or even CORs but a quick comparison with 1970-ish shows:

Portsmouth same with 1-2 extra stops, Weymouth same, Exeter same as Warship timings but extra stops , Bournemouth 5 mins slower with 3-4 extra stops.

Best steam timing was 2hr Bournemouth and 3hr Weymouth - only Exeter was faster (by the ACE).

Still, I agree the Southern isn't known for high speed....

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Afraid not. May not be any faster than in the days of CIGs/REPs or even CORs but a quick comparison with 1970-ish shows:

Portsmouth same with 1-2 extra stops, Weymouth same, Exeter same as Warship timings but extra stops , Bournemouth 5 mins slower with 3-4 extra stops.

Best steam timing was 2hr Bournemouth and 3hr Weymouth - only Exeter was faster (by the ACE).

Still, I agree the Southern isn't known for high speed....

Portsmouth used to be 1h 25 - 1h 29 (fast) and they used to be:

Woking - Guildford - Haslemere - Havant - Portsmouth S/Sea, some stopped at Petersfield.

They most certainly didn't follow the stopper, like they do now or sit on Havant Jn for 4 or 5 mins on a regular basis like they do now.

The SW Portsmouth line timetable needs a radical overhaul because you can do many journeys quicker and more easily by road. I can do where I live to Southampton quicker than not by road than by train, A3, M27.

That's because the train often sits on Woking Jn for something to cross and so misses the connection there.

I have a TOC card, I never use it because its so slow & the network is so poor that I prefer to drive.

 

[thenorthern]

Sheffield to York via Leeds always seems quite slow as there are many speed restrictions along the way.

Glasgow to Edinburgh always seems quite slow given the distance between the two and the importance of both the cities.

All of this is dwarfed though by Belfast to Londonderry and Belfast to Dublin.

 

[crehld]

The SW Portsmouth line timetable needs a radical overhaul because you can do many journeys quicker and more easily by road. I can do where I live to Southampton quicker than not by road than by train, A3, M27..

Yep which is why when I lived and worked in Portsmouth and had a meeting in London my employer required I take the car. Not only slightly quicker, but significantly cheaper on the expenses front at the standard mileage rate than a train ticket.

 

[thenorthern]

Stafford to Stoke-on-Trent is rather slow as it has an average speed of around 50 miles per hour. Even slower is Birmingham to Wolverhampton by CrossCountry averaging around 30 miles per hour.

 

[notlob.divad]

To me an express is just the fastest service on the line in question. So on the 1830 Chat Moss line the Liverpool to Newcastle is the express.

 

[frodshamfella]

I went on TPE Liverpool to York last Saturday, it was a Newcastle service. Liverpool to Manc Vic, was reasonably fast, but from there to Leeds, seems to me a real trundle.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Birmingham to Leicester isn't great, especially if you measure it against Birmingham to Derby, another city some 40 miles away in the East Midlands which shares track with the Leicester route for 7 or 8 miles.

 

[xotGD]

Yep which is why when I lived and worked in Portsmouth and had a meeting in London my employer required I take the car. Not only slightly quicker, but significantly cheaper on the expenses front at the standard mileage rate than a train ticket.

Clearly the employer did not prioritise the health and safety of its staff.

 

[FenMan]

Clearly the employer did not prioritise the health and safety of its staff.

Most employers prioritise returns to ther shareholders.

 

[me123]

Glasgow to Edinburgh always seems quite slow given the distance between the two and the importance of both the cities.

At approx 50 minutes for approx 50 miles (average speed of c60mph), it's pretty decent I'd say, and certainly much better than the other examples on here. Fair enough, if you get a slow train via Shotts it takes a long time (at a speed much closer to 30mph), but very few people would ride that train end-to-end, and that's not its purpose. The main line via Falkirk is very competitive compared to the road.

 

[Clansman]

Class 158s are the slowest Express passenger trains

In terms of services, 1A69 Glasgow to Inverness takes just under 6 hours as it goes via Aberdeen, when the journey normally takes around 3 hours via its normal route via the HML.

 

[Melancholia]

Class 158s are the slowest Express passenger trains

In terms of services, 1A69 Glasgow to Inverness takes just under 6 hours as it goes via Aberdeen, when the journey normally takes around 3 hours via its normal route via the HML.

That's the train I will be taking on my trip to Scotland in May.

 

[47271]

Anyone who thinks that Edinburgh to Glasgow is slow should try any one of the many frustrating ways to take a train between Manchester and Liverpool. Other than the hourly Lime Street to Victoria TPEs via Chat Moss, you might be in the right place at the right time to catch one of these if you're lucky, it's pretty ropey for a link between two major cities.

At least the E&G has an obvious frequent and fastest service.

 

[daodao]

Anyone who thinks that Edinburgh to Glasgow is slow should try any one of the many frustrating ways to take a train between Manchester and Liverpool. Other than the hourly Lime Street to Victoria TPEs via Chat Moss, you might be in the right place at the right time to catch one of these if you're lucky, it's pretty ropey for a link between two major cities.

At least the E&G has an obvious frequent and fastest service.

Apart from the hourly fast from M/c Vic, the M/c-LPL service is no better in terms of frequency or speed than it was pre-1914.

 

[Dr Hoo]

On Southeastern Highspeed you could get a St Pancras-St Pancras 'rounder' at Gravesend (say 1C10), spend 2 hours 51 minutes travelling via Ramsgate and Dover to Ebbsfleet International, which is all of two miles away, despite having travelled 130m and 76ch.

(Or you could walk, stopping off en route for a meal, in far less time.)

 

[mike57]

Most employers prioritise returns to ther shareholders.

But that return could be hit if someone was injured, particularly if it was a 'not their fault' accident. or was related to fatigue. I cant go into specifics but I am aware of at least one case where a company changed their policy after an employee lost his life in a road accident which was attributed to fatigue. The new policy was that in general the safest form of transport should be used for all non local journeys. I suspect there was a payout to relatives. Also the bad publicity that a fatal accident brings to a company.

I would have thought the HSE might also take an interest in companies operating a car over train policy as in terms of risk as its not ALARP (As low as reasonably practical), and if there is a regular train service then it is practical, and all figures no matter how you juggle them indicate rail travel to be one of the safest ways to travel.

 

[dk1]

Birmingham to Leicester isn't great, especially if you measure it against Birmingham to Derby, another city some 40 miles away in the East Midlands which shares track with the Leicester route for 7 or 8 miles.

That's mentioned in MR magazine this month. Apparently they'd like 20% shaved from the journey time bringing it down to 40mins.

 

[The Planner]

They want 10 minutes off the journey time? deluded. Without some serious investment such as straightening out Whitacre and re modelling of Water Orton they won't get anywhere near that without new rolling stock.