TRIVIA: Southern Region services worked by DMMUs

[AY1975]

In BR days the Southern Region favoured diesel-electric units (a.k.a. "Thumpers") for most of its non-electrified services, presumably because of their similarity to SR EMUs. AFAIK the only service wholly on Southern Region metals to have been worked by diesel-mechanical units was Reading-Tonbridge/Gatwick Airport, which was worked by Class 119s (and occasionally 101s and 117s) in the 1980s and early 1990s.

The only other example of DMMUs on the Southern I can think of is the Clapham Junction-Kensington Olympia shuttle, which I think went through phases of being worked by Bubble cars and Bletchley-based 104s (but was more often a DEMU or a Class 33+4TC), then when it was first extended to Willesden Junction in about 1995 it used Bletchley-based 117s until the whole line was electrified.

Then there were services that ran through onto the Southern, such as 123s on Cardiff-Portsmouth, and Westbury-Weymouth, which used a mixture of DMU classes: mainly 101s, 117s and 120s I think.

Can anyone think of any other examples of DMMUs on the Southern?

 

[Cowley]

Quite a few down my way that ran on ex Southern Railway lines (Exmouth/Barnstaple etc), but they were all part of the Western Region.
Also DMMUs worked from Exeter to Axminster, but I can’t think of any others than the ones you listed on the actual Southern Region.

 

[30907]

Going back a bit, Salisbury-Dilton Marsh, Basingstoke-Southcote Jn, Castle Cary-Weymouth, Yeovil-Langport (?) and the Bridport branch were all managed by SR at various times after 1950 and IIRC all at some time had WR or GWR railcars operating. However, only Bridport was "wholly SR" and even that is stretching a point!
To clarify, Reading-Basingstoke locals were never largely DMMU.

 

[randyrippley]

Going back a bit, Salisbury-Dilton Marsh, Basingstoke-Southcote Jn, Castle Cary-Weymouth, Yeovil-Langport (?) and the Bridport branch were all managed by SR at various times after 1950 and IIRC all at some time had WR or GWR railcars operating. However, only Bridport was "wholly SR" and even that is stretching a point!
To clarify, Reading-Basingstoke locals were never largely DMMU.

Yeovil-Langport was never Southern and retained steam till the end. I think a GWR single unit was briefly trialed in the 1950s
I believe a Park Royal railcar was tried between Pen Mill and Yeovil Junction but rapidly reverted to an auto set.

Dorchester (not Cary) - Weymouth became Southern in the 60s and had mainly cross country DMUs on services from Bristol

Bridport line remained Western and used bubble cars

elsewhere, by the 80s WR DMUs reached Sherborne on short services from Exeter, but by then WR were in charge
Didn't Reading-Redhill use WR DMUs for a while? So did Bristol-Portsmouth but a Hymek was more likely

Of the LSWR branches, Lyme Regis retained steam till the end, I believe so did Seaton. When did Exmouth convert?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

All of the SR's 'Withered Arm' west of Exeter became DMU worked after the WR's 'annexation' in 1963, and the end of steam in 1964-5. Bodmin North was served for a time by a 4-wheeled AC Railcars unit from Boscarne Exchange Platform. Lyme Regis, Seaton and Sidmouth branches were all DMU worked at the end. Due to a DMU shortage, the Seaton branch did revert to steam for a brief period, but using a WR '14XX' loco and auto-trailer.

 

[MatthewRead]

In BR days the Southern Region favoured diesel-electric units (a.k.a. "Thumpers") for most of its non-electrified services, presumably because of their similarity to SR EMUs. AFAIK the only service wholly on Southern Region metals to have been worked by diesel-mechanical units was Reading-Tonbridge/Gatwick Airport, which was worked by Class 119s (and occasionally 101s and 117s) in the 1980s and early 1990s.

The only other example of DMMUs on the Southern I can think of is the Clapham Junction-Kensington Olympia shuttle, which I think went through phases of being worked by Bubble cars and Bletchley-based 104s (but was more often a DEMU or a Class 33+4TC), then when it was first extended to Willesden Junction in about 1995 it used Bletchley-based 117s until the whole line was electrified.

Then there were services that ran through onto the Southern, such as 123s on Cardiff-Portsmouth, and Westbury-Weymouth, which used a mixture of DMU classes: mainly 101s, 117s and 120s I think.

Can anyone think of any other examples of DMMUs on the Southern?

The Willesden Junction to Clapham Junction was introduced in May 1994 using Class 117's and then went over to Class 313 operation 2 years later.

 

[big all]

If the the 03:20 and 03L27 paper trains where not calling at Redhill (due to a line block north off Redhill), we would go with the night refuel to Selhurst via London bridge and Earlswood or Gatwick to pick up mail and passengers for Redhill.

During the the Thameslink introduction after the morning Kensington shuttle, we would take drivers from Clapham to Blackfriars and any route for route learning purposes from Blackfriars south for 2 or 3 trips to Norwood or Selhurst, before dumping the unit in the depot for servicing and refuelling if required.

 

[30907]

Yeovil-Langport was never Southern and retained steam till the end. I think a GWR single unit was briefly trialed in the 1950s
I believe a Park Royal railcar was tried between Pen Mill and Yeovil Junction but rapidly reverted to an auto set.

Dorchester (not Cary) - Weymouth became Southern in the 60s and had mainly cross country DMUs on services from Bristol

Bridport line remained Western and used bubble cars

This map shows the boundaries immediately before the 1963 re-drawing. IIRC the ex GW lines were added in 1958.
http://semgonline.com/sr_map/1962map.html
One result was the appearance of a SR upper quadrant at Maiden Newton, which looked most out of place!
Happy to be corrected about the Taunton route remaining steam though, I had a memory of a photo of a GW railcar... maybe on the Chard branch?

 

[Midnight Sun]

There was a Saturday only service from Weymouth to Westbury which run via Bournemouth, Southampton, Eastleigh, Romsey and Salisbury using DMMU in the 1980's. This was for route knowledge should the route via Maiden Newton be blocked.

 

[randyrippley]

This map shows the boundaries immediately before the 1963 re-drawing. IIRC the ex GW lines were added in 1958.
http://semgonline.com/sr_map/1962map.html
One result was the appearance of a SR upper quadrant at Maiden Newton, which looked most out of place!
Happy to be corrected about the Taunton route remaining steam though, I had a memory of a photo of a GW railcar... maybe on the Chard branch?

If that happened it could only ever have been a paper exercise.
With the odd exception of an N class loco on Yeovil-Taunton, all the stock on the routes I stated were western. The locos and the coaches
That map looks more like an attempt at a land grab by the SR management prior to rationalisation. Of course the WR won..........

 

[30907]

If that happened it could only ever have been a paper exercise.
With the odd exception of an N class loco on Yeovil-Taunton, all the stock on the routes I stated were western. The locos and the coaches
That map looks more like an attempt at a land grab by the SR management prior to rationalisation. Of course the WR won..........

Regional boundaries were decided at HQ!
I agree the stock remained largely Western Region, the question was about DMMUs working over the Southern Region, which by definition were BR(W) allocated.

PS I believe that, as well as signals, a certain amount of green paint appeared (no doubt in response to the rash of chocolate that appeared west of Exeter post 1950... but I'll not start that one running).

 

[randyrippley]

Pen Mill certainly got a green splash of paint - I think around the same time as the footbridge got a roof, early 60s. My memory though is that the Edmondson tickets said BR(W) - though that could be faulty

 

[Taunton]

There were quite a few I recall. The Cardiff-Portsmouth services after a spell with Hymeks became WR Gloucester DMUs. The Reading-Redhill likewise became operated by Reading sets, which could also be seen at Basingstoke on the Reading line, a few of which were sent onward through to Salisbury in later years.

The most surprising for me was the evening of "Great Storm 2", 25 January 1990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burns'_Day_Storm , when I set off on a very disorganised and delayed VEP service from Woking towards Waterloo. Never got there as Raynes Park to Wimbledon took half an hour and I gave up for the District Line. However, running on the Slow line stopping all stations we were overtaken on the Up Fast round about Weybridge by a 3-car Met-Cam 101 dmu running at speed. No idea what it was doing or why it was there.

 

[big all]

The most surprising for me was the evening of "Great Storm 2", 25 January 1990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burns'_Day_Storm , when I set off on a very disorganised and delayed VEP service from Woking towards Waterloo. Never got there as Raynes Park to Wimbledon took half an hour and I gave up for the District Line. However, running on the Slow line stopping all stations we were overtaken on the Up Fast round about Weybridge by a 3-car Met-Cam 101 dmu running at speed. No idea what it was doing or why it was there.

One of the diversionary routes, when engineers work was on between Guildford and Wokingham, was via Woking, turning off at West Byfleet, changing ends at Virginia Water and then back to Wokingham.

Other diversions where Redhill - East croydon - Clapham Jn - Kensington Olympia, then down the Western main line towards Reading.

And a very unusual one where the first 2 or 3 trains on a Sunday went Guildford - Aldershot - Ash Vale - Camberley - Ascot - Wokingham

 

[Andy R. A.]

Around the end of the 1980s, early 1990s a DMMU was borrowed for a time on the Hastings to Ashford route when there was a shortage of Thumpers. A set from the Tonbridge to Reading service worked empty from Tonbridge to Hastings for the 0555 Hastings to Ashford. It then covered two and a half trips while the two regular Thumpers fuelled at Chart Leacon. It was the last into Chart for fuel, before heading back to Tonbridge for an afternoon service to Reading. (Crewed by Tonbridge men who signed the DMMUs and the Marshlink route).
Overnight the last DMMU from Reading went down to Chart Leacon for fuel, and returned with a Staff Train to Tonbridge (around 0420 I think ?)
During the Winter of 1987 a DMMU was borrowed to operate a few trips between Tonbridge and Hastings when we had heavy snow.
I have a few pictures of a DMMU set operating on the Marshes. I took them while acting as Pilotman during Engineering Works that were taking place between Ore and Rye. The DMMU set worked the services between Ashford and Rye. (Something that Southern were unable to do a few years back when Ore tunnel was shut and buses operated Rye to Ashford instead.)
The DMMU featured in the pictures had in one cab painted in large letters 'Not to work into Paddington Suburban'. Had great fun trying out the Destination blind with far away places
Arriving at Appledore with Tonbridge Driver 'Taffy' Thomas at the Controls.

Turning round in the Down platform at Rye, note the destination blind !

Change of destination again at Rye !

 

[Cowley]

Around the end of the 1980s, early 1990s a DMMU was borrowed for a time on the Hastings to Ashford route when there was a shortage of Thumpers. A set from the Tonbridge to Reading service worked empty from Tonbridge to Hastings for the 0555 Hastings to Ashford. It then covered two and a half trips while the two regular Thumpers fuelled at Chart Leacon. It was the last into Chart for fuel, before heading back to Tonbridge for an afternoon service to Reading. (Crewed by Tonbridge men who signed the DMMUs and the Marshlink route).
Overnight the last DMMU from Reading went down to Chart Leacon for fuel, and returned with a Staff Train to Tonbridge (around 0420 I think ?)
During the Winter of 1987 a DMMU was borrowed to operate a few trips between Tonbridge and Hastings when we had heavy snow.
I have a few pictures of a DMMU set operating on the Marshes. I took them while acting as Pilotman during Engineering Works that were taking place between Ore and Rye. The DMMU set worked the services between Ashford and Rye. (Something that Southern were unable to do a few years back when Ore tunnel was shut and buses operated Rye to Ashford instead.
The DMMU featured in the pictures had in one cab painted in large letters 'Not to work into Paddington Suburban'. Had great fun trying out the Destination blind with far away places View attachment 72315
Arriving at Appledore with Tonbridge Driver 'Taffy' Thomas at the Controls.
View attachment 72316
Turning round in the Down platform at Rye, note the destination blind !
View attachment 72317
Change of destination again at Rye !

That’s brilliant, thanks for that Andy.

 

[Taunton]

Those are great photos, only wonder how Yorkshire blinds got onto a set that never operated anywhere near.

Regarding the various Yeovil routes mentioned above, green (Bulleid corridor) stock certainly appeared on the Taunton line, in fact more frequently than N class SR locos. On summer Saturdays trains would be run through Taunton to Barnstaple, to save shunting across the layout to return, whereupon the SR got back what they had sent out from Yeovil. I don't think dmus ever operated on the line. Old GWR diesel cars apparently once did, but they were not multiple unit, of course, so outside our scope - one of the original ones, without buffers or drawgear, once broke down on the line and caused a great deal of trouble for the Taunton shed foreman in managing its recovery.

I believe the line, as well as Castle Cary to Weymouth, were given to the SR at nationalisation but like everything west of Salisbury came back to the WR in the 1962 boundary changes, so the late 1950s dieselisation of the Bristol to Weymouth trains is in scope. The Maiden Newton to Bridport line had been crewed from Weymouth, but after 1962 was run from Westbury depot, the crews spending half their shift on the cushions going to and fro.

After the SR transfer in 1962, the WR replaced the substantial array of former SR local services with spare dmus from elsewhere. There were various complaints about lack of toilets and poor seats on these services, some like Salisbury to Ilfracombe quite lengthy, and the issue worked up through a local MP to the BR Chairman, who instructed Paddington to Do Something about it. There were about 9 Swindon 3-car Cross-Country 120 units with two cars with toilets, the last 515xx batch, and 9 Derby Suburban 116 non-gangwayed units surplus from South Wales, the source of the trouble, in use, all assigned indiscriminately in WR fashion. Over one weekend the two types of set exchanged their centre trailers so each set had at least one car with decent seats and toilets. The resulting sets, with their different body and window profiles, and often mixed liveries, looked ridiculous, and now none of the sets had gangways through the unit, preventing conductor access and thus requiring all the minor stations to remain staffed. The hybrids lasted for some years like this.

 

[big all]

Around the end of the 1980s, early 1990s a DMMU was borrowed for a time on the Hastings to Ashford route when there was a shortage of Thumpers. A set from the Tonbridge to Reading service worked empty from Tonbridge to Hastings for the 0555 Hastings to Ashford. It then covered two and a half trips while the two regular Thumpers fuelled at Chart Leacon. It was the last into Chart for fuel, before heading back to Tonbridge for an afternoon service to Reading. (Crewed by Tonbridge men who signed the DMMUs and the Marshlink route).
Overnight the last DMMU from Reading went down to Chart Leacon for fuel, and returned with a Staff Train to Tonbridge (around 0420 I think ?)
During the Winter of 1987 a DMMU was borrowed to operate a few trips between Tonbridge and Hastings when we had heavy snow.
I have a few pictures of a DMMU set operating on the Marshes. I took them while acting as Pilotman during Engineering Works that were taking place between Ore and Rye. The DMMU set worked the services between Ashford and Rye. (Something that Southern were unable to do a few years back when Ore tunnel was shut and buses operated Rye to Ashford instead.
The DMMU featured in the pictures had in one cab painted in large letters 'Not to work into Paddington Suburban'. Had great fun trying out the Destination blind with far away places View attachment 72315
Arriving at Appledore with Tonbridge Driver 'Taffy' Thomas at the Controls.
View attachment 72316
Turning round in the Down platform at Rye, note the destination blind !
View attachment 72317
Change of destination again at Rye !

From memory, 417 had an odd repair with a 119 type roof section without a 4 digit headcode at one end.

So I suspect that motor coach with a Liverpool-based blind fitted was either someone's own fitted or a temporary motor coach, as all units including this one were fully fitted with London destination blinds, whenever I got on them, including a Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Company (BRCW) motor coach that was about for a while

 

[Sprinter107]

Around the end of the 1980s, early 1990s a DMMU was borrowed for a time on the Hastings to Ashford route when there was a shortage of Thumpers. A set from the Tonbridge to Reading service worked empty from Tonbridge to Hastings for the 0555 Hastings to Ashford. It then covered two and a half trips while the two regular Thumpers fuelled at Chart Leacon. It was the last into Chart for fuel, before heading back to Tonbridge for an afternoon service to Reading. (Crewed by Tonbridge men who signed the DMMUs and the Marshlink route).
Overnight the last DMMU from Reading went down to Chart Leacon for fuel, and returned with a Staff Train to Tonbridge (around 0420 I think ?)
During the Winter of 1987 a DMMU was borrowed to operate a few trips between Tonbridge and Hastings when we had heavy snow.
I have a few pictures of a DMMU set operating on the Marshes. I took them while acting as Pilotman during Engineering Works that were taking place between Ore and Rye. The DMMU set worked the services between Ashford and Rye. (Something that Southern were unable to do a few years back when Ore tunnel was shut and buses operated Rye to Ashford instead.)
The DMMU featured in the pictures had in one cab painted in large letters 'Not to work into Paddington Suburban'. Had great fun trying out the Destination blind with far away places View attachment 72315
Arriving at Appledore with Tonbridge Driver 'Taffy' Thomas at the Controls.
View attachment 72316
Turning round in the Down platform at Rye, note the destination blind !
View attachment 72317
Change of destination again at Rye !

Excellent pics. Never knew dmus operated along there. How strange that a Reading set has northern area destinations on its blind. Thanks for posting those.

 

[Sprinter107]

I've seen pictures in a book of class 117 dmus in the 1960s operating local trains from Basingstoke towards Woking. Not sure how or why this happened, but I've seen more than one picture, so obviously not a one off. Only seen 117s though, no other class.

 

[yorksrob]

Around the end of the 1980s, early 1990s a DMMU was borrowed for a time on the Hastings to Ashford route when there was a shortage of Thumpers. A set from the Tonbridge to Reading service worked empty from Tonbridge to Hastings for the 0555 Hastings to Ashford. It then covered two and a half trips while the two regular Thumpers fuelled at Chart Leacon. It was the last into Chart for fuel, before heading back to Tonbridge for an afternoon service to Reading. (Crewed by Tonbridge men who signed the DMMUs and the Marshlink route).
Overnight the last DMMU from Reading went down to Chart Leacon for fuel, and returned with a Staff Train to Tonbridge (around 0420 I think ?)
During the Winter of 1987 a DMMU was borrowed to operate a few trips between Tonbridge and Hastings when we had heavy snow.
I have a few pictures of a DMMU set operating on the Marshes. I took them while acting as Pilotman during Engineering Works that were taking place between Ore and Rye. The DMMU set worked the services between Ashford and Rye. (Something that Southern were unable to do a few years back when Ore tunnel was shut and buses operated Rye to Ashford instead.)
The DMMU featured in the pictures had in one cab painted in large letters 'Not to work into Paddington Suburban'. Had great fun trying out the Destination blind with far away places View attachment 72315
Arriving at Appledore with Tonbridge Driver 'Taffy' Thomas at the Controls.
View attachment 72316
Turning round in the Down platform at Rye, note the destination blind !
View attachment 72317
Change of destination again at Rye !

Goodness, I missed that happenning when I lived down there (got a loco hauled CIG once that was on the route for similar reasons).

I've seen a picture of a DMU at Paddock Wood operating a stopper to Ashford due to a broken rail (it's in Middleton Press' Redhill - Ashford album).

 

[73001]

Around the end of the 1980s, early 1990s a DMMU was borrowed for a time on the Hastings to Ashford route when there was a shortage of Thumpers. A set from the Tonbridge to Reading service worked empty from Tonbridge to Hastings for the 0555 Hastings to Ashford. It then covered two and a half trips while the two regular Thumpers fuelled at Chart Leacon. It was the last into Chart for fuel, before heading back to Tonbridge for an afternoon service to Reading. (Crewed by Tonbridge men who signed the DMMUs and the Marshlink route).
Overnight the last DMMU from Reading went down to Chart Leacon for fuel, and returned with a Staff Train to Tonbridge (around 0420 I think ?)
During the Winter of 1987 a DMMU was borrowed to operate a few trips between Tonbridge and Hastings when we had heavy snow.
I have a few pictures of a DMMU set operating on the Marshes. I took them while acting as Pilotman during Engineering Works that were taking place between Ore and Rye. The DMMU set worked the services between Ashford and Rye. (Something that Southern were unable to do a few years back when Ore tunnel was shut and buses operated Rye to Ashford instead.)
The DMMU featured in the pictures had in one cab painted in large letters 'Not to work into Paddington Suburban'. Had great fun trying out the Destination blind with far away places View attachment 72315
Arriving at Appledore with Tonbridge Driver 'Taffy' Thomas at the Controls.
View attachment 72316
Turning round in the Down platform at Rye, note the destination blind !
View attachment 72317
Change of destination again at Rye !

Brilliant. Love these sort of threads as I was growing up through the 70s, 80s and 90s and would often travel around some of these areas. Would definitely have got that DMU if it promised a ride all the way to Southport!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think that unit would be out of gauge for Clayton West these days!

 

[satisnek]

I've seen pictures in a book of class 117 dmus in the 1960s operating local trains from Basingstoke towards Woking. Not sure how or why this happened, but I've seen more than one picture, so obviously not a one off. Only seen 117s though, no other class.

Yes, I was going to mention this. The Woking - Basingstoke local service was operated by WR units prior to the commencement of EMU operation in 1967.

 

[randyrippley]

from http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/watexdieselops.html

Between 1963 and 1966 WR based DMMUs were used on various local passenger trains between Exeter and Yeovil, as well as working the Sidmouth, Seaton and Lyme Regis branches. Similar units also found use on certain Woking-Basingstoke-Salisbury local services being displaced from operating to Woking as part of the Bournemouth electrification scheme

. At the WR end, a weekdays local Exeter-Axminster service was normally been provided by a DMMU with one return morning and evening trip

One service that deserves special mention is the through Brighton to South Devon train. After closure of the through Okehampton route in 1967 this continued until 1971 as a daily out and back Brighton-Exeter service hauled by two Hither Green based Class 33s. For the winter 1971/72 timetable a rather odd Saturdays only service by a WR three car DMMU was retained in the same paths west of Salisbury but without South Coast connection-the through train otherwise withdrawn and no mid-week service at all

 

[DerekC]

Wasn't Tonbridge - Redhill - Guildford - Reading the home of the famous "Tadpoles" (Class 206) in the 1960s and 70s? I have a vivid memory of one breaking down at Penshurst on a westbound trip in 1969 or 1970. We waited an hour for the next service to come up behind and push us all the way to Redhill at a speed of about 25 mph, as I recall. When did the Tadpoles go and get replaced by DMMUs?

 

[Andy R. A.]

When did the Tadpoles go and get replaced by DMMUs?

The Tadpoles started to go in 1979. As they consisted of two Hastings Gauge coaches they were required to form up another six car Hastings Set. Of the remaining two Tadpoles one was involved in a collision with a Hastings Unit in 1980, and as a result the Tadpole donated its coaches to the Hastings Unit to keep that running, and the last Tadpole gave up its centre coach to the Hastings fleet as well.

 

[yorksrob]

The Tadpoles started to go in 1979. As they consisted of two Hastings Gauge coaches they were required to form up another six car Hastings Set. Of the remaining two Tadpoles one was involved in a collision with a Hastings Unit in 1980, and as a result the Tadpole donated its coaches to the Hastings Unit to keep that running, and the last Tadpole gave up its centre coach to the Hastings fleet as well.

It's nice to know the thumper carriages were put to good use afterwards!

 

[Carlisle]

Of the LSWR branches, Lyme Regis retained steam till the end, I believe so did Seaton. When did Exmouth convert?

The Watercress, Fawley & Swanage lines will have been DEMU operated during the final years BR ran passanger trains on them

 

[Taunton]

From memory, 417 had an odd repair with a 119 type roof section without a 4 digit headcode at one end.

So I suspect that motor coach with a Liverpool-based blind fitted was either someone's own fitted or a temporary motor coach, as all units including this one were fully fitted with London destination blinds, whenever I got on them, including a Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Company (BRCW) motor coach that was about for a while

Not a 119 type, but you can see in two of the photos that one end of the unit has the curved-top 4-character indicator box, from the BRCW 118 build, and the other end has the straight top, from the Pressed Steel units. Presumably there were spares of only one type.

Goodness, I'm becoming a rivet counter! But remember being told this difference more than 50 years ago.