Trivia: Station that can reach most stations within a county.

[Proud Salopian]

DarloRich, I said Cleveland before the first Poster said he's using Ceremonial counties.
It does exist. It's all the unitary authorities around Teesside plus Redcar & Cleveland council. Having no county council doesn't change anything. It's no different from Merseyside or Berkshire which have no council.
Personally I dislike the whole idea of ceremonial counties not just because of their un-importance but because they don't line up with real life well.

For example with this enlarged Durham county you mention.
Stockton Borough is split in half between North Yorkshire and Durham.
And it's hard to find out where the line is drawn.

I think perserved counties were mentioned for Wales.
Not sure what Scotland's using for this??

Good grief. I seem to recall reading exactly the same re: counties (and also with you posting in the same confused way) some months ago, and despite explaining the situation it doesn't seem to have sunk it at all.

Cleveland was abolished. The county does not exist! Unlike Tyne & Wear, Greater Manchester, etc, the county (established in 1974) was thankfully short-lived and was disbanded in 1996. Same for Avon. As for the boundary between N Yorkshire and Durham ceremonial counties in Stockton: it is not "hard to find out" where this is - it's in the Lieutenancies Act 1997 and repeated endlessly on Wikipedia and elsewhere. It's **soooo** complicated: get ready for this! It's ****dramatic drumroll**** the River Tees! How difficult is that! :roll::roll:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/23/schedule/1

Durham: Durham, Darlington, Hartlepool and so much of Stockton-on-Tees as lies north of the line for the time being of the centre of the River Tees

North Yorkshire: North Yorkshire, Middlesbrough, Redcar and Cleveland, York and so much of Stockton-on-Tees as lies south of the line for the time being of the centre of the River Tees

Sorry to be so sarcastic, but when this conversation crops up again and again - with the same posters and the same confusion - it is just ridiculous. The counties are not that complicated and all the information is readily available, particularly via Wikipedia.

Getting back to the thread: Shropshire is a classic, with the county town having direct services to all other 18 stations in the county.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Darlington is in County Durham and Cleveland no longer exists. Although Darlignton is now a unitary authority but let’s consider it within County Durham

Although for County Durham Darlington is quite good connection wise:

Durham
North Road
Heighington
Newton Aycliffe
Shildon
Bishop Auckland
Dinsdale
Teesside Airport
Chester le Street


The only difficult one would be Seaham. I am not sure if there is a direct train anymore. You would have to change at Newcastle or Middlesbrough

The service that calls at Teesside Airport also continues onto Seaham, so that can be included in the list.

 

[DarloRich]

DarloRich, I said Cleveland before the first Poster said he's using Ceremonial counties.
It does exist. It's all the unitary authorities around Teesside plus Redcar & Cleveland council. Having no county council doesn't change anything. It's no different from Merseyside or Berkshire which have no council.
Personally I dislike the whole idea of ceremonial counties not just because of their un-importance but because they don't line up with real life well.

For example with this enlarged Durham county you mention.
Stockton Borough is split in half between North Yorkshire and Durham.
And it's hard to find out where the line is drawn.

I think perserved counties were mentioned for Wales.
Not sure what Scotland's using for this??

No it diesnt exist! Cleveland was dissolved. The area covered by Cleveland County Council was split into a number of unitary authorites.

The rule for working out the boundray between Durham and Yorkshire is qute easy. North of the River Tees = Durham, South = Yorkshire.
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The service that calls at Teesside Airport also continues onto Seaham, so that can be included in the list.

good news! I wasnt sure - all stations in County Durham (either now, with or without Cleveland) are therefore accessible from Darlington by direct train

 

[damo44]

Cardiff Queen Street and central reaches every station in old south Glamorgan.

Central doesn't have a direct service to Cardiff Bay though

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I wasn't discounting facts about which ceremonial county towns are in.
I was being quoted from before they were set as the rule for this thread.
And I was pointing out how silly they are.
I have never heard anyone in Redcar or Middlesbrough say they're in North Yorkshire as everything of importance is either Cleveland/Teesside or the local council.
The river boundary isn't obvisious to any map readers.
And the legal stuff says "for the time being the centre of the river".
What does that mean? These ceremonial counties should be scrapped.

The county may be abolished and have no council. But Cleveland does exist.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Cleveland, Humberside, London, Avon, Sussex have all been split for ceremonial counties which is apparently what is used on this question.
That means Darlington is best connected for County Durham.
Lewes for East Sussex.
Brighton for West Sussex.
I do not know if Victoria or Piccadilly are connected to tge most ib Greater Manchester.

And I mentioned Darlington ages ago.

 

[TUC]

I agree that it's not in Lincolnshire administratively (but it's not in Humberside either!). It's all very silly - it was much easier (and sensible) before 1974 .

No it wasn't. There were boundaries based on where the population lived in the late 19th century. By the 1970s this was unfit for purpose, let alone the 21st century.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No it diesnt exist! Cleveland was dissolved. The area covered by Cleveland County Council was split into a number of unitary authorites.

The rule for working out the boundray between Durham and Yorkshire is qute easy. North of the River Tees = Durham, South = Yorkshire.

But there's no such county as Yorkshire either.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

No it wasn't. There were boundaries based on where the population lived in the late 19th century. By the 1970s this was unfit for purpose, let alone the 21st century.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But there's no such county as Yorkshire either.

I have to agree with that.
Old Lincolnshire wasn't simple like many say it was.
Kesteven, Holland and Lindsey(which had 3 ridings) were counties in their own right. And Grimsby was a County Borough.
East Yorkshire had Hullshire leave as a seperate county once.
Hull then became a county corporate.

Humberside and Lincolnshire is simpler than the mess we had before.
It was just people concerned about names rather than the actual function of counties that led to the situation now with no county council which is much needed.

If the Tees is the boundary then Bernard Castle is in two counties!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Can't you reach all stations on Merseyside from Lime Street bar Upton, Heswall, Meols Cop and to (but can get from) Moorfields ?

 

[Proud Salopian]

The river boundary isn't obvisious to any map readers.

Maybe Ordnance Survey should start including the ceremonial county boundaries then.

And the legal stuff says "for the time being the centre of the river".
What does that mean?

What it says. The boundary runs down the centre of the river and (as rivers move a bit now and again) the "centre" means as it is at any given time (ie it can move). This isn't that unusual - many river boundaries in the country do actually "move" (boundaries for local government, etc, and also land ownership).

These ceremonial counties should be scrapped.

Why? What harm do they do to you or anyone? Seems you have real issues with them, for no good reason.

They may not have so much meaning in your area, but in Shropshire for example there is a real difference between the Shropshire Council area (ie the unitary authority area) and the ceremonial county of Shropshire, which is the area that almost everyone regards as being "Shropshire". And it's the same or similar for many counties. Cheshire and Bedfordshire now only exist as ceremonial counties. If anything, the ceremonial counties should remain and become "the counties" and all other local government areas should be districts, boroughs and whatnot.

The county may be abolished and have no council. But Cleveland does exist.

Yes, as a geographic area in the same sense that the Welsh Marches exists, or the Fens, and so on. It's you who keeps bringing up Cleveland when we're talking about counties, even though it was only briefly a county and is no longer one.

 

[JamesRowden]

Lewes for East Sussex.

According to my calculations Lewes is beaten by Brighton, St Leonards Warrior Square, Hastings and Ore. All four of these stations score the same.

 

[Quakers Yard]

First and last trains to Cardiff bay are to and from central.

 

[Statto]

Can't you reach all stations on Merseyside from Lime Street bar Upton, Heswall, Meols Cop and to (but can get from) Moorfields ?

No going from Lime Street to Moorfields & stations on the Northern Line requires a change of trains at Liverpool Central or Liverpool South Parkway/Hunts Cross.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

DarloRich, I said Cleveland before the first Poster said he's using Ceremonial counties.
It does exist. It's all the unitary authorities around Teesside plus Redcar & Cleveland council. Having no county council doesn't change anything. It's no different from Merseyside or Berkshire which have no council.
Personally I dislike the whole idea of ceremonial counties not just because of their un-importance but because they don't line up with real life well.

For example with this enlarged Durham county you mention.
Stockton Borough is split in half between North Yorkshire and Durham.
And it's hard to find out where the line is drawn.

I think perserved counties were mentioned for Wales.
Not sure what Scotland's using for this??

Here you go, the County of Cleveland has been abolished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland,_England

The county was abolished in 1996 with its boroughs becoming unitary authorities and the Tees re-established as the border between North Yorkshire and County Durham for ceremonial purposes only

 

[RichmondCommu]

But is Derby actually in Derbyshire?

What????? Don't be so ridiculous!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, the county town of Derbyshire is......


Matlock! So I don't think it is.

Don't be so stupid! The County Council has it's HQ in Matlock but that is about it!

 

[damo44]

First and last trains to Cardiff bay are to and from central.

I can see that the last train of the day from Cardiff Bay goes to Central (presumably by reversing at Queen Street) but doesn't the first service from Central to the Bay (6:26 to Merthyr) need a change at QS to join the train from Coryton

 

[CKiltie]

Barnham must be for West Sussex.
Serves direct services to Bognor, Littlehampton, Brighton, Victoria via Hove and Arun Valley line etc.

Of course you can not get a train from Barnham that would stop at a station like Balcombe for example, but I think from Barnham you could get to most places in West Sussex.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

What????? Don't be so ridiculous!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Don't be so stupid! The County Council has it's HQ in Matlock but that is about it!

No need for name calling. Derby is not in Derbyshire county council.
It's similar in Nottinghamshire and North Yorkshire. Hence their comment.

Stratto, notice how your quote from Wiki says "for ceremonial purposes only"
That suggests that jn the real world it's not so.

 

[Railfan2156]

What services from Exeter go directly to Gunnislake on a normal day? Far as I can see there isn't such a thing!

There aren't, but I reckon that a reasonably common exstension like that should count.

 

[Proud Salopian]

No need for name calling. Derby is not in Derbyshire county council.
It's similar in Nottinghamshire and North Yorkshire. Hence their comment.

Stratto, notice how your quote from Wiki says "for ceremonial purposes only"
That suggests that jn the real world it's not so.

By the "real world" you mean for local government purposes. Derby is not in the local government (technically the "non-metropolitan") county of Derbyshire, but it of course is in Derbyshire. And this "true county" is given a present-day legal meaning by way of the Lieutenancies Act 1997 (as well as being used for other "ceremonial" purposes such as High Sherriff). Indeed "ceremonial" counties are widely used for all sorts of purposes, including for example by the LGBCE. Derby is in Derbyshire, it obviously is.

I don't know why we're even trying to (or having to) persuade you on these common county-related matters. I'm certainly not going to bother any more.

 

[asylumxl]

Looking on Wikipedia, it seems that in Bedfordshire it would be Bedford. There are only a few on the ECML that can't be reached, which will change with E-W rail.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The other extreme (most disconnected from other stations in the same county) would be Kings Sutton, would it not? It's in Northamptonshire but as far as I'm aware it cannot get to any other station within Northamptonshire without either at least two changes or a cross London or cross Birmingham transfer. I know Northamptonshire is one of those places which has surprisingly few railway stations, but still...

 

[CC 72100]

What services from Exeter go directly to Gunnislake on a normal day? Far as I can see there isn't such a thing!

Oh yes there (sort of) is : http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C27314/2015/02/20/advanced

Friday only Gunnislake - Exeter. Ok, so you can't go from Exeter to Gunnislake, but you can the other way around.

Runs semi-fast Plymouth - Exeter too, which isn't that common for a unit and one with a '2' headcode.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The other extreme (most disconnected from other stations in the same county) would be Kings Sutton, would it not? It's in Northamptonshire but as far as I'm aware it cannot get to any other station within Northamptonshire without either at least two changes or a cross London or cross Birmingham transfer. I know Northamptonshire is one of those places which has surprisingly few railway stations, but still...

Stamford in Lincolnshire is the same in that it's not linked to any other same county stations..

 

[Mutant Lemming]

No going from Lime Street to Moorfields & stations on the Northern Line requires a change of trains at Liverpool Central or Liverpool South Parkway/Hunts Cross.
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Indeed I blame the onset of something connected with getting old - it would have been Liverpool Central had the 1964 plans for the loop been realised.
Maybe I need another eye test.

 

[RichmondCommu]

No need for name calling. Derby is not in Derbyshire county council.
It's similar in Nottinghamshire and North Yorkshire. Hence their comment.

If Derby as you say is not located in the county of Derbyshire which county is it located in? Somerset?

All of this coming from the Nobby Know It All who suggested that Virgin had run double deck services and that they had been a complete failure.

 

[pne]

Stamford in Lincolnshire is the same in that it's not linked to any other same county stations..

And Bottesford for Leicestershire.

Though given how far away in a little thin "peninsula" of Leics. Bottesford is, not surprising.

 

[krus_aragon]

I can see that the last train of the day from Cardiff Bay goes to Central (presumably by reversing at Queen Street) but doesn't the first service from Central to the Bay (6:26 to Merthyr) need a change at QS to join the train from Coryton

Not (iirc) on a Sunday morning.

 

[po8crg]

The only Merseyside stations that can't reach one of the Liverpool stations direct are Meols Cop, Rainford, Heswall and Upton. Some can only get to Lime Street and others only to Moorfields and Central but they can all get to Liverpool.

 

[unlevel42]

All 31 South Yorkshire stations can be reached from Sheffield.*

Derby has no direct access to:
Whitwell-Shirebrook
Grindleford-New Mills
New Mills-Buxton
Alfreton-Langley Mill
Glossop

Rawcliffe formerly in West Riding then in Humberside now in the East Riding
has no links with Hull, Grimsby or Doncaster

I can go to the Royal Hallamshire Hospital.
I can have a pint in the Hallamshire
I can watch the oldest football club in Yorkshire- Hallam FC
I can attend Hallam University.
Run for the Hallamshire Harriers.
I could join The Company of Cutlers in Hallamshire formed in 1624
I can pray in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Hallam
I can listen to Hallam FM
etc
Does Hallam/Hallamshire exist?

*not County not SYPTE

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Hallamshire is the name of a rail line, a constituency and a battalion.
It was last a county in the 16th century. It does exist, but comes under South Yorkshire county council and the ceremonial one so doesn't count on here.
I'm sure no one would mind areas like that being used if it's defined.
Today it's the same as Sheffield metropolitan borough council area more or less.
Other similar areas which were counties included Richmondshire, Hullshire, Hexhemshire, Cravenshire, Winchcombeshire and Howdenshire. Shire was used on non-counties too. For example Cramlingtonshire and Leylandshire.

 

[damo44]

Not (iirc) on a Sunday morning.

Ah I see. Thanks. I had actually checked for Sundays but the timetable showed no services whatsoever, but digging deeper I see that there is engineering between Central and Queen Street for the next couple of weeks.