TRIVIA - Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today

[AJP62]

BGs in the middle of a train. This used to happen on the southbound Glasgow/Edinburgh to Birmingham trains when the portions were reversed but probably elsewhere too. Interesting walking through the BG to the buffet on a speeding train on the twisty northern reaches of the WCML - nothing to hold onto at apart from the coach sides! I'm sure such acres of space wouldn't be allowed in today's health and safety climes!

 

[Cowley]

BGs in the middle of a train. This used to happen on the southbound Glasgow/Edinburgh to Birmingham trains when the portions were reversed but probably elsewhere too. Interesting walking through the BG to the buffet on a speeding train on the twisty northern reaches of the WCML - nothing to hold onto at apart from the coach sides! I'm sure such acres of space wouldn't be allowed in today's health and safety climes!

I think the Cardiff to Portsmouth services in the 1980s had a BG in the middle of a five coach set.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Travelling cash boxes ,locked by chains in brake vans.

I await responses on this gem.

 

[deltic]

Full length trains. Relief trains. Saturday seaside trains Station pilots, standby crew, standby loco, Extra unscheduled stops.. Everything needed to run an effective railway has gone.
All of these things have disappeared in the pursuit of profit. There's no other reason.

More trains run more frequently now than in BR days carrying far more passengers. There are no relief trains because the rolling stock is now intensively used all day. There remain standby crews and to a far less extent standby trains. And unscheduled stops still exist.

 

[AndrewE]

Travelling cash boxes ,locked by chains in brake vans.
I await responses on this gem.

I remember them, but never got involved with one. I can picture a padlocked iron-bound box with scumbled paint and painted-on "home" station and local headquarters, but I don't remember the chains. Maybe I saw them on the line between Bristol and Weymouth.
I have seen one not so very long ago, so it might have been at York museum, could have even been at Liverpool Rd, Manchester or even Bury Transport museum... I can't find a picture of one on line though.

 

[Czesziafan]

It is probably true that Whitehall "gilded" EU regulations in this instance as elsewhere, as the civil service wanted the UK to be "super compliant" and go above and beyond what the regulations required. Whether this was government policy or the actions of an opportunist bureaucracy is unclear.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Travelling cash boxes ,locked by chains in brake vans.

I await responses on this gem.

Ah yes! The system was known as "Wells Fargo". Individual station cash bags would be made up and sealed (with proper sealing wax, melted by a candle) and 'posted' in the heavy travelling safes. In those days 'traffic cash' was typically 'retained' to make up cash wage packets, avoiding bank charges for paying in locally and then getting it back out again on a Thursday.

The Western Region used the travelling safes extensively and there was a raid on a DMU between Reading and Paddington when attackers broke into the cage brake, cut the safe free and pushed it from the train to waiting confederates on the embankment. The incident was commonly referred to as "the great Hayes & Harlington disaster" (after the then-popular "Bristow" cartoon series in the London Evening Standard, which featured regular references to a historical "great tea trolley disaster").

If you ever wanted to wind up a senior member of BR's finance or audit team it was possible to work "Hayes & Harlington" into the conversation and guarantee that they would lose their train of thought. Never failed!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ah yes! The system was known as "Wells Fargo". Individual station cash bags would be made up and sealed (with proper sealing wax, melted by a candle) and 'posted' in the heavy travelling safes. In those days 'traffic cash' was typically 'retained' to make up cash wage packets, avoiding bank charges for paying in locally and then getting it back out again on a Thursday.

The Western Region used the travelling safes extensively and there was a raid on a DMU between Reading and Paddington when attackers broke into the cage brake, cut the safe free and pushed it from the train to waiting confederates on the embankment. The incident was commonly referred to as "the great Hayes & Harlington disaster" (after the then-popular "Bristow" cartoon series in the London Evening Standard, which featured regular references to a historical "great tea trolley disaster").

If you ever wanted to wind up a senior member of BR's finance or audit team it was possible to work "Hayes & Harlington" into the conversation and guarantee that they would lose their train of thought. Never failed!

Excellent - especially the Bristow reference to the 1972 tea flood. Details are lacking on the latter.

The travelling safes were quite superb works of art , presumably hand made in Swindon works , with detailed "to work between xxx and xxx hand painted) - an awful lot better than colleaugues on the Southern who had to carry station cash in various ways , to paying in locations. I always despised the carrying of large chunks of money for paying wages staff , and used the tricks of varying routes , having a sacrifical empty bag in case of a snatch etc. Easier in the cold weather when you could pocket the stuffed envelopes inside your very heavy overcoat.

 

[coppercapped]

It is probably true that Whitehall "gilded" EU regulations in this instance as elsewhere, as the civil service wanted the UK to be "super compliant" and go above and beyond what the regulations required. Whether this was government policy or the actions of an opportunist bureaucracy is unclear.

In the case of the railway this was not true.

It was always perfectly clear, and understood by the Government, that closing lines to cut expenses was not politically possible. The corollary of this fact is that the 'social railway' was not to be touched and so a method of paying the subsidy to the railway business had to be found which was compatible with the EU's rules on state aid for private companies.

There was /no/ conspiracy and /no/ gilding.

 

[Dr Hoo]

In terms of the 'pay run' I have even resorted to tucking pay packets behind wagon labels on freight trains to remote locations in winter, when it was inadvisable to drive.

 

[30907]

In the case of the railway this was not true.

It was always perfectly clear, and understood by the Government, that closing lines to cut expenses was not politically possible. The corollary of this fact is that the 'social railway' was not to be touched and so a method of paying the subsidy to the railway business had to be found which was compatible with the EU's rules on state aid for private companies.

There was /no/ conspiracy and /no/ gilding.

But subsidy was always allowed, provided it was properly directed and accounted for, and is universal across Europe.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In terms of the 'pay run' I have even resorted to tucking pay packets behind wagon labels on freight trains to remote locations in winter, when it was inadvisable to drive.

A lost technique that . Impressive. Getting rid of weekly cash / wages handling was a major productivity benefit for all , though some managers enjoyed the getting out and about.

 

[Spamcan81]

I must be getting old.

BR used to have a Round Robin ticket. An example from Hemel Hemstead, a one way trip around the Cambian coast and back via Carisle. They also did Heart of Wales.

Persil, two for one offer. Traveled around a lot with my father with those.

Seats that matched windows.

Less frequent trains in general.

Oh yes. Many a railborne pub crawl courtesy of those.

 

[Spamcan81]

The Voyager Railcard.

 

[Spamcan81]

Yellow crew buses for the PW Gangs

"Area" cars being Maestros (brown or dark blue) , and Ford Chevetes. (the boots being usually full of emergency equipment and the odd screw coupling)

The Chevette was a Vauxhall product.

 

[telstarbox]

A lost technique that . Impressive. Getting rid of weekly cash / wages handling was a major productivity benefit for all , though some managers enjoyed the getting out and about.

When did BR /other huge organisations stop paying their staff in cash?

 

[AndrewE]

When did BR /other huge organisations stop paying their staff in cash?

Probably when the Truck act was repealed, although it might actually have been a lot earlier.
I guess salaries/wages paid into a bank are still being paid in currency of the realm, whereas the Truck act was to outlaw payment in the employer's own tokens - which you could only spend at his shop!
So the real answer is probably "when the employer agreed it with their unions." It would have inconvenienced some employees, so by law I think it would have had to be consulted upon first. I can't remember the rules now, but in the 20th century there were some things that an employer was allowed to impose on the workforce, and quite a lot of others that they were supposed to negotiate and get agreement on (by law.)

 

[Bald Rick]

When did BR /other huge organisations stop paying their staff in cash?

That’s a question I’ve often wondered. My mum worked for the NHS in a ‘wages’ grade, weekly paid, from 1977, and was always paid by cheque; it went to bank transfer in about 1990.

Also in 1990 I worked for a large supermarket chain, paid weekly, and the default was to be paid in cash. This was ostensibly as it was the cheapest and safest way (for the supermarket) to get cash off the premises. Not so handy for you when you were collecting arrears / advance holiday pay when you could be walking out the door with £600 or so (worth about £1500 now).

I guess the answer to your question depends on the nature of the organisation. If it is a business without a lot of cash income, then it would have made sense to pay at least some staff in cash ‘out of the till’.

For BR, I wonder if there were different arrangements for those on weekly pay and/or at stations. In my nearly 30 years I’ve only ever been paid by bank transfer.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Even when I joined BR as a teenager in the early 1970s it was in the 'salaried', monthly-paid, clerical grades, with only a bank-transfer option. I had to open a bank account pronto! But 'wages' grade platform, yard and train crew staff (and presumably many depot and technical staff) could still opt to be weekly paid in cash.

Cash was a wretched nuisance to handle. I remember two 'armed' (possibly with replica weapons but just as scary for the poor pay clerks) raids on paydays at nearby stations as soon as the cash had been delivered. Quite hard telling staff that there wouldn't be any pay that day as it had been nicked.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

That’s a question I’ve often wondered. My mum worked for the NHS in a ‘wages’ grade, weekly paid, from 1977, and was always paid by cheque; it went to bank transfer in about 1990.

Also in 1990 I worked for a large supermarket chain, paid weekly, and the default was to be paid in cash. This was ostensibly as it was the cheapest and safest way (for the supermarket) to get cash off the premises. Not so handy for you when you were collecting arrears / advance holiday pay when you could be walking out the door with £600 or so (worth about £1500 now).

I guess the answer to your question depends on the nature of the organisation. If it is a business without a lot of cash income, then it would have made sense to pay at least some staff in cash ‘out of the till’.

For BR, I wonder if there were different arrangements for those on weekly pay and/or at stations. In my nearly 30 years I’ve only ever been paid by bank transfer.

Likewise , it was more of a thing for non-supervisory / management staff , - which must have been consulted out around 1984 or so. I am sure a diligent search of Rail News would assist .....(If anyone ever kept them in a shed or attic)

 

[Czesziafan]

The payment in cash system was also the time when one had to present a metal pay check with your number on it to the clerk to get paid.

 

[Mag_seven]

When did BR /other huge organisations stop paying their staff in cash?

On that topic I suppose that's why we never hear of "wages heists" these days. Back in the day practically every episode of "the Sweeney" relied on a cash for wages delivery to a factory being intercepted by men with stockings over their faces and sawed-off shotguns!

 

[coppercapped]

But subsidy was always allowed, provided it was properly directed and accounted for, and is universal across Europe.

Yes - railway subsidy was paid to /nationalised/ authorities. This is permitted by the rules, but the use of the monies is in many cases, for example in the case of DBAG, not clear or transparent which is why the various EU railways Directives are aiming to clearly split infrastructure and operations in the nationalised railways. In the case of the UK in 1993 the TOCs, FOCs and Infrastructure owner were /private/ companies and different rules came into play.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder that this is a History & Nostalgia thread for posting about Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today, thanks

We would very much welcome the creation of additional forum threads in this section if anyone wishes to discuss anything else!

 

[davetheguard]

Bloody LOVED Network Days. 'How many 50s can you travel behind for a fiver?' 'AS MANY AS POSSIBLE'

I made the mistake of travelling to Sheerness on a Network Day.

 

[davetheguard]

Firebuckets. These are at Washford on the West Somerset Railway by the way.

 

[billio]

The chairman of British Railways, Peter Parker, especially when stuck on a train opposite Old Oak Common for over an hour.

 

[Requeststop]

This should probably be in a different thread but a quick search didn't bring anything up.

Mail trains are distant memory at Bristol Temple Meads but passing through over the weekend I noticed the boards on platform 6 showing the destinations were still in place.

Indeed, I recall in the late seventies, actually posting mail into the special post box on a mail train standing at the platform. In those days you could walk onto the platform even without a platform ticket.

 

[davetheguard]

Indeed, I recall in the late seventies, actually posting mail into the special post box on a mail train standing at the platform. In those days you could walk onto the platform even without a platform ticket.

I did the same at Paddington one evening. If I remember correctly, a letter posted on a Travelling Post Office had to have a first class stamp.

 

[ElectroSoldier]

A sandwich that didnt come in a box.
A pulled pint on an express with a buffet
Heating in the winter that actually worked as heating.
Loco hauled passenger services