TRIVIA - Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today

[cjp]

cjp might have been thinking of the guards van areas that units like piggies used to have, ideal locations for storing a number of bikes

Yes. And for luggage, newspapers and during busy times people standing.
Real trains

 

[Confused147]

Back in them days if a loco failed on a long distance intercity service they could find a replacement - these days when the loco fails the whole train is cancelled.

 

[PR1Berske]

Towards the end of the BR era in the early to mid 1990s, BR introduced colour-coded waiting zones (Blue Zone, Purple Zone, Gold Zone, etc) at stations served by InterCity trains to help you wait in the correct part of the platform for whichever coach you wanted.

There were signs located at intervals along the platform, and posters inviting you to "zone in on your seat", telling you which coach would stop in which zone. Naturally, 1st class was normally in the Gold Zone, but of course trains sometimes turned up (and still do turn up) in reverse formation.

Today, Virgin East Coast and Hull Trains have their own system of waiting zones, but instead of coloured zones, they just have signs saying wait here for Coach A, wait here for Coach B, etc.

Memories of platform announcers at Preston directing passengers for Ormskirk "to the end of platform 3 beyond the Gold Zone" Can still hear it in my head.

 

[341o2]

In the 70's, footplate crews were still not allowed to use glasses - they had to pass an eye test without them, and women were not allowed to be guards as it was deemed that in the event of a train seperation, they would not be physically strong enough to lower the buckeye couplings and use the emergency one

 

[coppercapped]

Back in them days if a loco failed on a long distance intercity service they could find a replacement - these days when the loco fails the whole train is cancelled.

Eh? Apart from the Sleepers, the ECML Class 91s and the Norwich express services, are there any other loco-hauled trains?

Is intercity loco failure a big problem today?

 

[EM2]

The double deck trains ran from Charing cross IIRC and possibly elsewhere, Southern "Bulleid DD" stock IIRC.
Not proper double deck trains in which one could walk along the upper deck, but split level compartments with a short set of stairs to the upper level.
I am showing my age by admitting to having travelled on these !
Remains of at least one unit still exist.

It was indeed the Bulleid 4-DD.
There is a group hoping to preserve part of one - http://bulleid4dddoubledeck.co.uk/history.html
And there's also some info on Kent Rail - https://www.kentrail.org.uk/Bulleid_4DD.htm

 

[trash80]

Eh? Apart from the Sleepers, the ECML Class 91s and the Norwich express services, are there any other loco-hauled trains?

Is intercity loco failure a big problem today?

Chiltern Mainline, Cumbria and the new TPE one?

Only seen one loco failure on a passenger train in the last few years, though as the loco had proper buffers it meant the Class 70 on a following freight could push it out of the way and unblock the main line

 

[D Foster]

In the 70's, ... and women were not allowed to be guards as it was deemed that in the event of a train seperation, they would not be physically strong enough to lower the buckeye couplings and use the emergency one

That wasn't the case in my experience on BR/SR. In fact we liked to have small young ladies on a training course for buckeye lifting. First thing was to select and nice grundged up buckeye that hadn't been dropped in a while. The instructor (always male in those days and usually large - usually ex army - would show how the job was done properly but without commenting on the "technical" bit - students were supposed to be watching and paying attention. Instructor would then ask for a volunteer. 99% of the time the large, cock-sure muscly guy on the course would step forward with a swagger - and struggle to complete the lift to pin-in. We'd then ask the small young lady to do the job. Previously briefed to hard-kick the dropped buckeye away from her they would usually complete the job first time. Much to the amusement of all but one. The "technical" bit was in using the buckeye's own weight and the momentum of the swing back from the kick. Point nicely demonstrated was that it wasn't brute force that got the buckeye up but technique.
Something similar applied for the lady guards if they had violent or abusive passengers.

 

[AY1975]

Signs on the door of the nearest toilet to the buffet counter on InterCity trains saying this toilet is not for public use, and is for use only by the catering crew. This was universal in BR days, but for some reason since privatisation the powers-that-be seem to have decided that catering staff no longer need to have their own exclusive toilet. (Maybe this is because in BR days there were more catering staff per train than there are nowadays - certainly that would have been the case on trains with a full restaurant car service.)

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Masses of Christmas mail and parcels extra services - even 4EPB sets commandeered from places like Redhill , with the seat bases overturned to protect them.

 

[Taunton]

Masses of Christmas mail and parcels extra services - even 4EPB sets commandeered from places like Redhill , with the seat bases overturned to protect them.

There was a comparable operation at the end of the London-Brighton annual mass bike ride in those days. Returning from Brighton station to London, special 8EPBs, rear unit with seat squabs turned over and filled with masses of bicycles. Front unit normal seats for riders. Used to take about half an hour to load it at Brighton, same to unload at Victoria.

Nowadays special artic lorries have to be hired ...

Didn't those pre-Christmas mail trains do some decidedly odd routes between main mail centres, such as Redhill to Twickenham, using the special mail sidings at both ends?

 

[Rick1984]

Signs on the door of the nearest toilet to the buffet counter on InterCity trains saying this toilet is not for public use, and is for use only by the catering crew. This was universal in BR days, but for some reason since privatisation the powers-that-be seem to have decided that catering staff no longer need to have their own exclusive toilet. (Maybe this is because in BR days there were more catering staff per train than there are nowadays - certainly that would have been the case on trains with a full restaurant car service.)

Norwich to London trains definitely still have this.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Signs on the door of the nearest toilet to the buffet counter on InterCity trains saying this toilet is not for public use, and is for use only by the catering crew. This was universal in BR days, but for some reason since privatisation the powers-that-be seem to have decided that catering staff no longer need to have their own exclusive toilet. (Maybe this is because in BR days there were more catering staff per train than there are nowadays - certainly that would have been the case on trains with a full restaurant car service.)

I remember that instruction coming out. The "not for public use" came in due to a change in hygiene regs. A public toilet next to where food was being prepared was deemed to be unacceptable. By default it became a staff only facility.

 

[tsr]

I could be sure a lot of Mk3 stock around the country still has toilets which are for staff only, but they are not labelled or necessarily even given a conventional door handle (perhaps just a key slot) so the uninitiated would never know. If I remember correctly, I think the GWR Mk3s may still have these, but I haven't been on one for a few months so I might be getting confused with some of my other journeys!

 

[Clip]

Back in them days if a loco failed on a long distance intercity service they could find a replacement - these days when the loco fails the whole train is cancelled.

That's because its not very cost effective to have locos sat around idling with a crew doing nothing for days on end 'just in case'

 

[work-traveller]

Police Trains
(ok - somewhat tongue in cheek)

© Mick Parker / Class 37 Locomotive Data Site - 1997 - 2017

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Lupins on railway embankments

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Lupins on railway embankments

Still around - including the famous Daffodil display around Wellington (Salop) and some odd + rare orchids twixt St Albans and Radlett.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There was a comparable operation at the end of the London-Brighton annual mass bike ride in those days. Returning from Brighton station to London, special 8EPBs, rear unit with seat squabs turned over and filled with masses of bicycles. Front unit normal seats for riders. Used to take about half an hour to load it at Brighton, same to unload at Victoria.

Nowadays special artic lorries have to be hired ...

Didn't those pre-Christmas mail trains do some decidedly odd routes between main mail centres, such as Redhill to Twickenham, using the special mail sidings at both ends?

Wide range of extra mail trains run - from 37+5 vans Swansea to Paddington , to Ipswich - Peterboro (2x Cravens units) .....Kings Cross - Hitchin with brand new 313 units etc (seats covered mercifully)

 

[CC 72100]

I could be sure a lot of Mk3 stock around the country still has toilets which are for staff only, but they are not labelled or necessarily even given a conventional door handle (perhaps just a key slot) so the uninitiated would never know. If I remember correctly, I think the GWR Mk3s may still have these, but I haven't been on one for a few months so I might be getting confused with some of my other journeys!

If you're thinking of the TGS 'toilets' - there is just nothing in there as the toilets were taken out when FGW wanted to bring in standard class trolleys some years ago. The project was never finished and so in most cases there is nothing in there.

You can sometimes see the doors wedged open and taped to stop them closing when being used as extra luggage space on summer services.

If there was anything exciting in there, it would have been found out by now

 

[railfan100]

A walk on 'long distance' fare ticket that represented a financial figure that was cheaper than using a car? Especially if that ticket is for a London terminal the cost today is often far greater than using a private motor vehicle.

 

[Bald Rick]

A walk on 'long distance' fare ticket that represented a financial figure that was cheaper than using a car? Especially if that ticket is for a London terminal the cost today is often far greater than using a private motor vehicle.

That's more about the cost of fuel than the cost of train tickets. If the price of petrol had kept pace with inflation since the turn of the century, it would now be around £1.65/litre

 

[telstarbox]

Factor in the cost of parking at your central London destination though. £7/hour around Oxford Street...

 

[Lankyline]

The sight of double-headed 50’s at Preston waiting to take over from the electrics.
Sat on a brute at the end of Preston station on a Sat, complete with the obligatory Ian Allan, pair of binoculars and sandwiches, peering through the heat haze at Skew Bridge a mile or so away trying to be the first to I’d the loco hauling a summer special to Blackpool, ranging from Peaks to 31’s and 37’s or if we were really lucky a named 47, such as “Thor” or “Odin”
The lonely outline of a now redundant coaling tower at an mpd, now with diesel traction on the roads where once quietly steamed black 5’s.
Condensation on Mk1 windows

 

[Photohunter71]

The distinct "Buzz Buzz- Buzz!" in a dmu of the guard signalling to the driver when to set off from a station. Guards vans (usually crammed with bikes, prams and mail sacks!) Coal yards with various types of coal hopper being unloaded. (Kilwinning had a great wee coal yard off the Largs- Glasgow lineside, and some marshalling track either side of the mainline)

 

[railfan100]

I know when I go in to London with family and friends (we live just under 50 miles out) it costs around £8 return for fuel in the car along with parking which in parts of Central London is just under £10 per day. Websites such as JustPark allow very good rates for parking in the central area. Even with the congestion charge and the recent stealth T-Charge it is far cheaper than the train.

Every other country I have been to (which was 9 last year alone) has a cheaper public transport than the private car but not in 'modern' Britain. For 4 adults to use the train to central London costs just under £200 for a peak day return plus parking at the station is nearly £7! The car can deliver a door to door service far cheaper and with higher comfort levels, the train is totally priced out of the market at the current prices. Fuel could go over £2 per litre and the train is still far more expensive.

 

[Bald Rick]

I know when I go in to London with family and friends (we live just under 50 miles out) it costs around £8 return for fuel in the car along with parking which in parts of Central London is just under £10 per day. Websites such as JustPark allow very good rates for parking in the central area. Even with the congestion charge and the recent stealth T-Charge it is far cheaper than the train.

Every other country I have been to (which was 9 last year alone) has a cheaper public transport than the private car but not in 'modern' Britain. For 4 adults to use the train to central London costs just under £200 for a peak day return plus parking at the station is nearly £7! The car can deliver a door to door service far cheaper and with higher comfort levels, the train is totally priced out of the market at the current prices. Fuel could go over £2 per litre and the train is still far more expensive.

That's comparing apples and spanners.

Firstly there's not many vehicles that will average 67mpg all the way into and out of central London in average traffic.

Secondly, you can get much cheaper, or free, parking near most stations if you are prepared to walk a bit.

Thirdly, there aren't many 'family and friends' day trips to London who will choose to travel out in peak time.

Fourthly, even if you did take leave of your senses and decide to travel at peak time by car to central London, the journey would be rather, well, interesting. It can easily take an hour to do MK to the M25 in the morning peak.

Finally you are using 4 adults in one car as a comparator, and the proportion of car journeys with 4 adults in them at peak time is frankly rather small.

more useful comparisons would be:

1 adult driving to central London at peak time
4 adults driving to central London at off peak time

Taking the last one, 4 adults can get from Bedford to London via Thameslink for a total of £39 return on groupsave. Frankly I would happily pay that just to avoid trying to get up the A41 from Hendon.

 

[billio]

One ticket which covered travel from one station to and back from several stations as you wished, found particularly as day returns on Southern region. This was very useful if you wanted to walk from one station to another without the need for two singles.
Crates of milk samples (hopefully not radioactive) being sent to Sellafield after the fire at Windscale in 1957.
Ability to work out where a train was heading for on the basis of where the parcels were going - particularly useful at Paddington in order to get a seat in the rush hour.

 

[railfan100]

That's comparing apples and spanners.

Firstly there's not many vehicles that will average 67mpg all the way into and out of central London in average traffic.

Secondly, you can get much cheaper, or free, parking near most stations if you are prepared to walk a bit.

Thirdly, there aren't many 'family and friends' day trips to London who will choose to travel out in peak time.

Fourthly, even if you did take leave of your senses and decide to travel at peak time by car to central London, the journey would be rather, well, interesting. It can easily take an hour to do MK to the M25 in the morning peak.

Finally you are using 4 adults in one car as a comparator, and the proportion of car journeys with 4 adults in them at peak time is frankly rather small.

more useful comparisons would be:

1 adult driving to central London at peak time
4 adults driving to central London at off peak time

Taking the last one, 4 adults can get from Bedford to London via Thameslink for a total of £39 return on groupsave. Frankly I would happily pay that just to avoid trying to get up the A41 from Hendon.

I woud say it is far too expensive the current system precludes multiple adults being able to travel at peak times, why should an overpriced system dictate when you can travel and when you can not? When I was in NSW Australia peak travel was very cheap and it was capped, many locals use the network because it is far cheaper than the private motor car.

That to me is the issue today the rail network cannot compete on costs against other modes of travel, we need to ask why is the cost base so out of control in the UK? Serious questions need to be asked why can other countries offer a rail service that does undercut the motor vehicle but the current system in 'modern' Britain is unable to come close to doing this. Nearly £200 for four adults to travel under 50 miles each way for one day, yes ONE day in to London at peak times is such an embarrassing scandal in my opinion.

In NSW I did make a medium distance trip of over 80 miles in the peak and it worked out less than the sterling equivalent of £10 (and salaries are higher in Australia) and that was a capped fare rate so the return was at no additional cost. I could mention more countries (9 last year alone) it is always a stark comparsion against the current TOC operated model.

 

[Bald Rick]

I woud say it is far too expensive the current system precludes multiple adults being able to travel at peak times, why should an overpriced system dictate when you can travel and when you can not? When I was in NSW Australia peak travel was very cheap and it was capped, many locals use the network because it is far cheaper than the private motor car.

That to me is the issue today the rail network cannot compete on costs against other modes of travel, we need to ask why is the cost base so out of control in the UK? Serious questions need to be asked why can other countries offer a rail service that does undercut the motor vehicle but the current system in 'modern' Britain is unable to come close to doing this. Nearly £200 for four adults to travel under 50 miles each way for one day, yes ONE day in to London at peak times is such an embarrassing scandal in my opinion.

In NSW I did make a medium distance trip of over 80 miles in the peak and it worked out less than the sterling equivalent of £10 (and salaries are higher in Australia) and that was a capped fare rate so the return was at no additional cost. I could mention more countries (9 last year alone) it is always a stark comparsion against the current TOC operated model.

Firstly, this has been the case for a lot longer than simply since BR disappeared.

Secondly, peak fares are used at peak times when demand is greatest. BR systematically increased peak fares well above inflation for years to price demand off to the available capacity. This is not an option for the railway now that fares are regulated.