TRIVIA - Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today

[railfan100]

Firstly, this has been the case for a lot longer than simply since BR disappeared.

Secondly, peak fares are used at peak times when demand is greatest. BR systematically increased peak fares well above inflation for years to price demand off to the available capacity. This is not an option for the railway now that fares are regulated.

I agree in principal that fares were too high under BR but now it simply feels that they are way out of control. A system that offers value for money will take traffic away from the roads also if the system has a true cost base that is competitive it will also remove a significant number of HGV's from long-distance trips.

I see no solution from the TOC operating model that can address the issues to the point that results are delivered and it can catch up with countries that lead the way in having a rail network that offers the public very good value walk on peak fares. The bureaucratic nature and high cost base of the network today has no strategy to run a network that is lean, efficient and reasonable value to run and operate.

The comparision of a peak walk on return fare of 80 miles costing £10 in NSW, Australia is an interesting comparsion to a trip of a simlar mileage in the UK such as Rugby to London (around 80 miles is £50. As I say salaries typically are higher in Australia as well. The people are being fleeced by the system in the UK as it stands today with the walk on prices.

 

[gazthomas]

Casey Jones Burgers

 

[delt1c]

Double headers regularly rostered for service trains.
Station Pilots
Compartments

 

[gazthomas]

John Menzies newsagents with Platform 5 pocket books for sale including those A5 vinyl covers

 

[Cowley]

John Menzies newsagents with Platform 5 pocket books for sale including those A5 vinyl covers

I had a dark green one...

 

[AY1975]

Griddle cars on Scottish internal long-distance trains and on Class 124 Trans-Pennine DMUs and Class 309 Clacton EMUs.

"Cross-Country Grill" hot buffet service in the early days of Cross-Country HSTs in the early 1980s.

Mark 1 kitchen cars used as buffet cars (as in this clip of Alf Garnett drunk on a train: www.youtube.com/watch?v=49wQc6eOivA. This would appear to be a kitchen car being used as a buffet).

 

[AJP62]

Griddle cars on Scottish internal long-distance trains and on Class 124 Trans-Pennine DMUs and Class 309 Clacton EMUs.

"Cross-Country Grill" hot buffet service in the early days of Cross-Country HSTs in the early 1980s.

Mark 1 kitchen cars used as buffet cars (as in this clip of Alf Garnett drunk on a train: www.youtube.com/watch?v=49wQc6eOivA. This would appear to be a kitchen car being used as a buffet).

There were variants of kitchen cars. The 15xx and 17xx numbered ones had a small buffet counter and some loose seating from memory - one of the number series had a bigger seating area than the other I think. The 8xxxx numbered ones were purely kitchens with no counter or seating hence the non passenger numbering.

 

[Taunton]

Griddle cars on Scottish internal long-distance trains .

There were only a couple of these. Scottish internal trains had a real rag-bag of hand-me-down Mk 1 catering vehicles by the 1970s, and only a few of them overall. The Edinburgh-Aberdeen timetable distinguished between Buffet (Cup), griddle (fork in circle) and restaurant (crossed knife and fork). You could sometimes work out, with the RCTS coaching stock book listing the various sub-attributes such as air braked or not, which individual vehicle was going to be on which service.

I agree in principal that fares were too high under BR

Not my experience. Super Saver fares made impromptu trips, such as Liverpool to London for the day, very affordable, to an extent that walk-ups just are not now. After 0930 on weekdays, anytime at weekend.

 

[AY1975]

There were variants of kitchen cars. The 15xx and 17xx numbered ones had a small buffet counter and some loose seating from memory - one of the number series had a bigger seating area than the other I think. The 8xxxx numbered ones were purely kitchens with no counter or seating hence the non passenger numbering.

I also seem to remember that there were some kitchen cars with a buffet counter but no seating area.

 

[Stevexos]

Day Return ticket to anywhere in the uk , ie Edinburgh to Bristol . Used to do this journey a lot , out on 23.40 overnight service on Friday ( valid on a Saturday dated ticket at the time , returning on the overnight from Bristol ) Oh and of course overnight seated services

 

[BTU]

To stop this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=151941

Getting cluttered with trivia i thought we should have a new thread about memories of travelling with BR and things we saw then that we don't see now.

I will start with one: No journey was complete without a gang of jocks seeing how much export/best they could drink between London & Scotland ( WCML seemed bad for it!) . Some of the empty can piles resembled modern art!

(BTW when i was a kid i thought you only got four types of beer: McEwans/Broon/Vaux/Exhibition)

You don't see that these days.

I remember the porters that helped you with your luggage they had those barrows with the long handles.

 

[AY1975]

Toasted sandwiches in buffet cars on InterCity trains in the early to mid 1980s. (I also remember still seeing these in Network SouthEast Sussex Coast route buffet cars on 4-BIG EMUs in the early '90s - to think that what is now called Southern (part of Govia Thameslink) now has no on-train catering at all!)

Croissants and "pain au chocolat" in InterCity buffet cars in the late '80s and early '90s.

The InterCity magazine. They used to have special racks for it at the end of each coach, I think initially in first class only but maybe later in standard class as well. I remember seeing a letter on the letter page complaining about the demise of toast in buffet cars, and BR's reply that toast had been replaced by fresh croissants, partly to solve the hygiene problem of staff handling unwrapped food and money at the same time.

 

[AngusH]

Yes, I seem to remember bacon and tomato toasted sandwiches, but also toasted cheese sandwiches.
Although I think there were years when it was one or the other, I don't recall a choice.

 

[AY1975]

Blackboards and chalk used for special traffic notices, and information about delays and disruption (and even occasionally as a low-tech departure board if the Solari departure board wasn't working).

In about the late 1980s whiteboards and marker pens started to replace blackboards and chalk, but these days, even the former are considered too low-tech.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Blackboards and chalk used for special traffic notices, and information about delays and disruption (and even occasionally as a low-tech departure board if the Solari departure board wasn't working).

In about the late 1980s whiteboards and marker pens started to replace blackboards and chalk, but these days, even the former are considered too low-tech.

Even better - wooden finger boards - much battered - in place on (mainly) Southern stations , put in place by the platform staff.

 

[tsr]

Still got whiteboards on my patch, too. And they’re used in some rather “state of the art” (hmmm) control rooms for all manner of activities.

 

[SUB62]

Even better - wooden finger boards - much battered - in place on (mainly) Southern stations , put in place by the platform staff.

I have one of these somewhere in the attic that a friend ''liberated'' one drunken night out in the late 70s

 

[lincolnshire]

Blackboards and chalk used for special traffic notices, and information about delays and disruption (and even occasionally as a low-tech departure board if the Solari departure board wasn't working).

In about the late 1980s whiteboards and marker pens started to replace blackboards and chalk, but these days, even the former are considered too low-tech.

I think you will find that in Network Rail maintenance departments that they have the countries highest collection of White Boards not that high tech there, they were introduced by some guy who advised them who had also worked on adviseing Irish Railways.

Funny how the head of maintenance had also worked for Irish Railways and then brought in an advisor who had advised them? job for the boys then?
They even hired in Portacabins to mount the white boards on the walls if there was not enough wall space available.
Is the maintenance any better for using the white boards then? or is it another white elephant introduced by a paid for advisor that will be forgotten about.

 

[Requeststop]

Not been able to read all 17 pages of replies but my response to the OP is:


Staff at all stations who had an intimate knowledge of the national network and how to get from A to B simply and quickly, rather that just a basic knowledge of their own TOC.

A simple and easy fares structure.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Casey Jones Burgers

I don't know if they were as good as I remember them, But I remember what a treat it was to go to Manchester Piccadilly and have a Casey Jones! Lovely Cherry milkshakes I can remember.

 

[matt_world2004]

In about the late 1980s whiteboards and marker pens started to replace blackboards and chalk, but these days, even the former are considered too low-tech.

Hayes and harlington just got some new ones complete with roundells

 

[DarloRich]

I think you will find that in Network Rail maintenance departments that they have the countries highest collection of White Boards not that high tech there, they were introduced by some guy who advised them who had also worked on adviseing Irish Railways.

Funny how the head of maintenance had also worked for Irish Railways and then brought in an advisor who had advised them? job for the boys then?
They even hired in Portacabins to mount the white boards on the walls if there was not enough wall space available.
Is the maintenance any better for using the white boards then? or is it another white elephant introduced by a paid for advisor that will be forgotten about.

what are you talking about? The actual truth is that they are a useful tool in visualising project progress and ensuring all information is open to all team members. It allows things like milestones and critical path items to be clearly known and responsibility for delivering clearly set out. It also lets everyone see the problems and come up with ideas to tackle them AND measure any success.

But yeah, jobs for the boys. As if no other business has ever used such a tool. It isnt as if it is part of ideas like six sigma or LEAN. Tell you what. Ring Nissan and tell them to ditch them all. Waste of time.

PS you are right though. There weren't many whiteboards under BR

 

[sarahj]

Staff at all stations who had an intimate knowledge of the national network and how to get from A to B simply and quickly, rather that just a basic knowledge of their own TOC.

You still them out and about. I see one all the time, and soon other staff get to know who will know and stop them to ask.

 

[DavidGrain]

Travelling from Birmingham New Street to London Euston on an Edmundson ticket printed Birmingham Snow Hill to London Paddington in the mid 1970s long after the GWR line had closed. My office used to buy tickets in bulk from a local travel agent.

 

[AndrewE]

Staff at all stations who had an intimate knowledge of the national network and how to get from A to B simply and quickly, rather than just a basic knowledge of their own TOC.
A simple and easy fares structure.

Correct in both respects... The national network of services and the GB timetable did a lot to unify the nation (and improve the performance of the railway network and the advice given to the public)... that and free passes and privilege tickets to anywhere in the country that gave staff a far better understanding of geography and railway operational realities than life within a single TOC will ever give.
I was fortunate to work in a Train Planning office in the 1970s where we were encouraged to borrow an all-stations duty pass for the weekend and go out to see how our weekly alterations worked in practice! MikeStone1952 (and probably others) will remember those days!

 

[AY1975]

InterCity Europe posters, and the ability to buy a ticket from any BR station to any station in mainland Europe (ironically, since the opening of the Channel Tunnel booking such a journey has become more difficult especially for anyone without internet access. I suspect that this is at least partly because the opening of the Tunnel pretty much coincided with rail privatisation and the winding up of British Rail International).

 

[Cheshire Rover]

InterCity Europe posters, and the ability to buy a ticket from any BR station to any station in mainland Europe (ironically, since the opening of the Channel Tunnel booking such a journey has become more difficult especially for anyone without internet access. I suspect that this is at least partly because the opening of the Tunnel pretty much coincided with rail privatisation and the winding up of British Rail International).

Wasn't there also something called Goldenrail Holidays advertised at the older generation?

 

[coppercapped]

Not been able to read all 17 pages of replies but my response to the OP is:


Staff at all stations who had an intimate knowledge of the national network and how to get from A to B simply and quickly, rather that just a basic knowledge of their own TOC.

A simple and easy fares structure.

Not entirely true...
...the staff at Reading General (ex GWR) would not admit to any knowledge of trains services running from Reading South (ex-SER, later SR) until South's closure in 1965. After that there was grudging admission that one could reach Wokingham and Guildford from Platform 4A.
In fact it was difficult to get GWR staff to admit the existence of the South station at all, although it was next door; the present 1989 concourse is largely on the site!
Reading South's staff returned the compliment.

 

[DavidGrain]

I also disagree with the statement that staff at all stations had an intimate knowledge of the network. In the late 1970s and early 1980s I had occasion at several times to journey from Leeds to Birmingham early on a Sunday afternoon to be told at stations and National Rail Enquires that there were no train before 5.00pm. In desperation one day I walked in to a branch of Thos Cooks as I thought of them as railway agents and yes they told me the trains I should catch, a train from Leeds to Sheffield and then an Inter City to Birmingham and sold me the tickets. Twice I was stopped at the barrier at Leeds and told that I could not enter the station three hours before the train to Birmingham and on each occasion I had to explain to them that I was catching a train to Sheffield to change into a Birmingham train. That I was on the authorised route for that ticket.

Actually nowadays I find that the guards on trains know all the connections and announce them on the approach to the stations including services provided by other operators.

 

[AndrewE]

I also disagree with the statement that staff at all stations had an intimate knowledge of the network. In the late 1970s and early 1980s I had occasion at several times to journey from Leeds to Birmingham early on a Sunday afternoon to be told at stations and National Rail Enquiries that there were no train before 5.00pm.

Your mistake was clearly to be starting from the wrong part of the country... People living that side of the Pennines can't understand why anyone wants to travel elsewhere anyway!
Table 51 of the GBTT clearly showed connections as well as through trains, although on a Sunday they might have been a bit iffy.