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Trivia: Towns which do not deserve the service they get

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61653 HTAFC

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You could say that most industrial centres in the North wouldn't be as big as they are without a main line running to it.

The fact is that to run via Hambleton would be to miss out a large traffic source. Larger than a number of IC stops on the ECML.
I'm not arguing that it should be missed out, just that it's fortunate to have the service it has.

As a result of having that service, it attracts passengers from a wider area: People from the Huddersfield area will drive to Westgate rather than connecting from Huddersfield or Slaithwaite for example, as well as encouraging people to move there to commute into Leeds.
 
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cle

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Not every station's service is due to the town or city it happens to serve.

Ely, Crewe, Doncaster... they're strategic rail locations over and above their 'domestic' markets - this goes for both interchanges, and regional railheads like Grantham.

What a negative, short-sighted thread. As said a million times, population is only one factor in demand.
 

anti-pacer

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Cononley. Trains every 15 mins in both directions, with two major cities served.
 

Metal_gee_man

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Sorry but GC do NOT stop in Grantham and never have,
Your reply doe snot make any sense because the car parking spaces are used and are used because train stop there so there MUST be a need for the services surely? I do not follow the logic of your argument.
I will edit it I meant Hull Trains sorry, I knew one or the other of the open access operators use Grantham, and the car parking situation isn't for locals used by locals, its car parking for the surrounding villages & towns that either have a shocking EMT service or a nothing at all, so does Grantham need 4tph North and South!?
 

anti-pacer

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Huddersfield is way over-served on the Manchester-Leeds axis due to railway geography. It isn’t actually the centre of the universe as all its residents believe.

200,000 if you ignore all the stations around it that serve those 200k.

Bradford is double the size, compare its service level.

Very impressive that you've consulted all us Huddersfield residents on the matter. I must have been out that day, but let me tell you, I am one resident of the town that doesn't have that opinion.

As a commuter between Huddersfield and Leeds, the peak hour provision could be better in my opinion. Off-peak is about right, but let's not forget that Wakefield for example, a place half our size fares FAR better with its through services to London, Birmingham, South West, South East, East Midlands and Scotland - all areas not served from Huddersfield.

I do however agree that Bradford deserves a better service.
 

chefchenko

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Kidsgrove , 3 trains an hour to stoke and beyond , 1 to Manchester and 2 to crewe yet usage is a third of congleton which has the hourly stoke-Manchester stopper only
 

Ken H

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I think this thread shows shows that stations serve a lot more people than the people in the actual settlement it serves. Oxenholme serves Kendal. Connonley serves south Skipton, Bradley and even Crosshills and Glusburn.
And people from Settle going to leeds/Bradford for the day will railhead to hellifield, because when they return they have a choice of lancaster or carlisle trains, maybe obviating a longer wait for their return train. And parking is free there.
 

anti-pacer

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I think this thread shows shows that stations serve a lot more people than the people in the actual settlement it serves. Oxenholme serves Kendal. Connonley serves south Skipton, Bradley and even Crosshills and Glusburn.
And people from Settle going to leeds/Bradford for the day will railhead to hellifield, because when they return they have a choice of lancaster or carlisle trains, maybe obviating a longer wait for their return train. And parking is free there.

I would imagine that commuters from Crosshills and Glusburn would use Steeton & Silsden because;

1) Easier and faster access by road
2) Better parking
3) It's in the direction of travel to Leeds, Bradford and Keighley
4) WY Metro fares
 

DerekC

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With all respect to the OP this does seem a bit of an odd question. There are all sorts of reasons for discrepancies, many of them operational and to do with the kind of railway which you happen to be near. For example there were umpteen stations on the ECML north of Peterborough which have been closed mainly because the impact of stoppers on the main line was too severe - it was better to close them and release several paths for fast and semi-fast services. Yet a line like Middlesbrough to Whitby or Central Wales has stations at all sorts of small places because it can, and with a single line you need passing places at which trains will stop anyway. And there is also the issue of alternative transport, which can justify keeping lightly used stations open.
 

Ken H

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With all respect to the OP this does seem a bit of an odd question. There are all sorts of reasons for discrepancies, many of them operational and to do with the kind of railway which you happen to be near. For example there were umpteen stations on the ECML north of Peterborough which have been closed mainly because the impact of stoppers on the main line was too severe - it was better to close them and release several paths for fast and semi-fast services. Yet a line like Middlesbrough to Whitby or Central Wales has stations at all sorts of small places because it can, and with a single line you need passing places at which trains will stop anyway. And there is also the issue of alternative transport, which can justify keeping lightly used stations open.
... and the difficulty closing lines/stations-getting them past the closure procedure.

The Esk valley line serves small places which are bypassed by the main road. the lanes into these villages would be difficult to arrange buses for.
When the guard strikes were on the replacement bus on the Settle/Carlisle took a long long time for the same reason. Garsdale-Dent is a difficult road for anything large.
 

Wirewiper

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But it's not. It's called Oxenholme and is a mere hamlet but is busy because it is the junction for the Lakes line, so it meets the criteria for this thread perfectly.

And also a railhead for the surrounding area, much like Brockenhurst.
 

LWB

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But it's not. It's called Oxenholme and is a mere hamlet but is busy because it is the junction for the Lakes line, so it meets the criteria for this thread perfectly.

The name is something of an anachronism these days. A quick look at a satellite photo will show how Kendal’s tendrils now come closer to the station than the village. Which additionally.better fits the OP’s original stipulation of which TOWNS.
 

al78

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I think this thread shows shows that stations serve a lot more people than the people in the actual settlement it serves. Oxenholme serves Kendal. Connonley serves south Skipton, Bradley and even Crosshills and Glusburn.
And people from Settle going to leeds/Bradford for the day will railhead to hellifield, because when they return they have a choice of lancaster or carlisle trains, maybe obviating a longer wait for their return train. And parking is free there.

Oxenholme also has the branch to Windermere, so will serve tourist traffic heading to the Lake District. I think there used to be a similar branch that went from Penrith to Keswick, which fell victim to the Beeching cuts, and those towns are now linked by a bus service.
 

Bletchleyite

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Oxenholme also has the branch to Windermere, so will serve tourist traffic heading to the Lake District. I think there used to be a similar branch that went from Penrith to Keswick, which fell victim to the Beeching cuts, and those towns are now linked by a bus service.

Indeed so. And I reckon that bus (which is pretty decent - it's a Stagecoach Gold operation with a pretty good timetable) would get a load more custom were it part of the railway timetable and fares system.
 

Stopper

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Plenty of underserved stations in Scotland but fair share of overserved ones too.

Ladybank, Camelon, Breich, Drem, Edinburgh Gateway.

There are other arguable ones such as Bridge of Allan, Dunblane, Edinburgh Park, Drumgelloch and Montrose and Stonehaven (the latter two of which aren’t overserved by ScotRail but are overserved by the fact they have many cross border services for very little reason at all, Ladybank, Cupar, Markinch and Inverkeithing can also fall into this bracket.
 

Dr Hoo

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It’s a bit unfair to class a ‘suburb’ such as Camelon as a ‘town’. There is no real point in having any suburban stations if they don’t have an essentially regular service.
 

30907

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I would imagine that commuters from Crosshills and Glusburn would use Steeton & Silsden because;

1) Easier and faster access by road
2) Better parking
3) It's in the direction of travel to Leeds, Bradford and Keighley
4) WY Metro fares
Belated reaction re Cononley: you are basically right, but have you tried parking at Steeton? You can at least park on street relatively close at Cononley.
Cononley didn't have a full service pre electrification - can't remember the detail, but I lived there at the time and because of the LC and signalling some of the down stoppers didn't (if you see what I mean)!
 

stj

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Stations between Cardiff and Swansea that GWR London services stop at.
 

Stopper

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It’s a bit unfair to class a ‘suburb’ such as Camelon as a ‘town’. There is no real point in having any suburban stations if they don’t have an essentially regular service.

4tph to Edinburgh is a bit of a push, suburb or not.
 

Greetlander

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I'm very late to this thread, so just to lob in my regional bias, although I'm from Halifax it pains me to admit that Huddersfield probably doesn't deserve to be on here. It's a glorified east-west commuter station and could probably sustain a service that went north or south.

That being said, if Wakefield wasn't in the way of the Leeds-London line it wouldn't justify any of the express services it gets. Swings and roundabouts really.
 

Edders23

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I will venture Grantham it is probably the least desirable town in Lincolnshire to live as well as being surrounded by small villages and has fewer commuters than any of other 3 towns in SKDC. Most people in the area use Peterborough as a railhead for commuting
 

tbtc

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I think Huddersfield and Halifax are slightly underserved for the number of passengers a year they get

Has anyone ever tried to build a table of stations listed in "average number of passengers per departure" to assess which places are underserved/over-served? That'd be interesting, if anyone could manipulate the date...
 

Ianno87

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Has anyone ever tried to build a table of stations listed in "average number of passengers per departure" to assess which places are underserved/over-served? That'd be interesting, if anyone could manipulate the date...

More interesting would be the ratio of revenue per passenger at (say) Huddersfield relative to the cost of serving it.

I.e. the marginal cost of stopping a Manchester-Leeds fast train at Huddersfield is low (if running to serve Leeds-Manchester demand anyway), but generates proportionately much more revenue (relative to cost) as a result.
 

Acfb

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Plenty of underserved stations in Scotland but fair share of overserved ones too.

Ladybank, Camelon, Breich, Drem, Edinburgh Gateway.

There are other arguable ones such as Bridge of Allan, Dunblane, Edinburgh Park, Drumgelloch and Montrose and Stonehaven (the latter two of which aren’t overserved by ScotRail but are overserved by the fact they have many cross border services for very little reason at all, Ladybank, Cupar, Markinch and Inverkeithing can also fall into this bracket.

I don't agree on Drem because it mainly acts as a railhead for East Linton (and a few other nearby villages like East Fortune, Athelstaneford etc). It has reasonable usage compared to Longniddry and is also used by a few Heriot's pupils as well. It might make sense to close it if East Linton ever opens though.
 

DarloRich

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Who here is qualified to decide what level of service a town "deserves"?

Many of the answers are of the nature: my town (aka I) has a worse service than a town I dont know or like and therefore they should suffer.

Not my town should have a better service becuase but rather they should have less because I have less.
 

Doomotron

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Albeit it doesn't get more services than it should, Deal gets about half as many services it should be getting, which is why I'm putting it on this list.
 
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