Trivia: unwritten etiquette as a railway passenger

[AM9]

Go around working class suburbia, such as former council estates, nearly families all have a car. Old cars, knackered cars, but that's how they get around, especially as a family, as train travel for a family is really expensive.

There's a slight difference in much of inner London and the cities, where many younger people don't drive, but that's no representative of the rest of the country.

There are still plenty of families where they either can't afford a car (and manage what little travel they do on public transport) or indeed cannot drive either through health grounds or just can't afford to learn and take a test. Nobody should assume that anybody else fits into a demographic based on unqualified observation of residential areas.

 

[bramling]

There are still plenty of families where they either can't afford a car (and manage what little travel they do on public transport) or indeed cannot drive either through health grounds or just can't afford to learn and take a test. Nobody should assume that anybody else fits into a demographic based on unqualified observation of residential areas.

Apart from London, you have to go to the most deprived areas of all to find families who don’t have at least one car.

 

[The Quincunx]

One of my pet peeves from pre-pandemic commuting days is people who travel by train, alight with everyone else at the terminus, get right up to the station gateline - and only then realize they need to come to a dead stop, rummage in their handbag, pocket, or worst of all their backpack, to find their ticket or smartcard in order to get through.

To be fair, my observations suggest this is not as common in the busiest part of the peak (presumably mostly regular, daily commuters here), but worst in shoulder peak times, when trains are still busy but it's more likely that 'ladies of a certain age' will be off for an outing in town, or a dopey-looking student is wandering reluctantly into college engrossed in their phone.

My maximum annoyance, however, is reserved for bus travel (there are multiple gates at the station). In this case little old ladies will be waiting five minutes or more for the bus to arrive, insist they get on first, then realise they need to find their smartcard pass inside their purse, somewhere in their handbag - all the time blocking the validator and preventing everyone behind them tapping on.

Top Tip: You know you're getting on a bus - find your bloody ticket whilst you're waiting for it to arrive!

The great Cyril Bird (aka Fougasse) did a cartoon about this in the 40s or 50s.

 

[AlterEgo]

How so? What about hidden disabilities eg autism and sensory processing disorder? The quiet coach should be able to cater for the aforementioned.

The sound of babies crying causes me sensory distress and it's unfair if it's literally a quiet coach. What's the point in having one then?

There is no legal requirement to provide a quiet coach, and because they set unreasonable and unenforceable expectations, you make a good point in bold.

 

[Peter0124]

There is no legal requirement to provide a quiet coach, and because they set unreasonable and unenforceable expectations, you make a good point in bold.

There should be though on long distance trains with atleast 9 coaches, otherwise isn't it being discriminatory against those with hidden disabilities eg autism?

And it should get enforced more due to that.

 

[mike57]

SBB double-deck Inter City sets have family accomodation designed for youngsters, maybe we should have something along those lines in the UK? The Swiss company Pixelfarm which designed the interiors has a webpage in English showing their work for these:

We cant even design trains to have enough luggage storage space, let alone family areas. Until we can get away from the 'cheapest possible even if its horrible' approach ideas like this will never fly in the UK. Obviously on local trains there is no need, but long distance services would benefit from some flexible family areas, maybe as a compartment(s) so that the children can be children without upsetting other passengers. Parents, children and other passengers would all be less stressed, and it would be another positive for rail travel by families instead of car.

The old 'side corridor' with compartments went a long way towards addressing a lot of the complaints on this thread. You may loose a few seats, but unless the train is rammed that isnt going to make much difference, and if the train is rammed it doesn't matter what you do its not going to be pleasant.

 

[urbophile]

Go around working class suburbia, such as former council estates, nearly families all have a car. Old cars, knackered cars, but that's how they get around, especially as a family, as train travel for a family is really expensive.

It's not so much that, as that in many such estates there is a pathetic or non-existent bus service. People need cars to get to work, shops and everywhere. It shouldn't be like that of course but it's not going to get any easier.

 

[SargeNpton]

In the name of satirising certain types of passenger I have often thought that a good skit would be for a chap to get on a train with a flask of hot water, a bowl and mirror and as soon as they sit down, get out the shaving kit. I'm actually surprised that no sketch artists have attempted this before!

I have seen one instance of a man attempting to use an electric razor on a morning commuter train - he was bluntly told what would happen if he didn't stop.

 

[NSE]

Regarding babies in the quiet coach, no I’d not be encouraging them in there. I generally travel on commuter stuff round the South East where quiet carriages are not as prevalent (I know they exist, but not to the same level as intercity type travel).

Also, a lot of people don’t have a car. You’d be surprised how many families don’t. Cars might be cheap, but lessons, insurance, tax, fuel. Train is still cheaper in many ways.

 

[AlterEgo]

There should be though on long distance trains with atleast 9 coaches, otherwise isn't it being discriminatory against those with hidden disabilities eg autism?

No transport provider is required to provide a guaranteed quiet area and I cannot see how failing to do so breaches any sort of legislation.

If it is a severe problem I recommend mitigating against it yourself by investing in a pair of ear defenders, or if you can afford them, a good pair of noise cancelling headphones.

 

[nw1]

It's not so much that, as that in many such estates there is a pathetic or non-existent bus service. People need cars to get to work, shops and everywhere. It shouldn't be like that of course but it's not going to get any easier.

Those kind of estates (outside London in medium-sized cities) in my experience had a significantly more usable service in the 90s.

The kind of city bus routes that left the main arteries a mile or two out of the city centre to wander round estates in the outer areas of the city have had a real cut back in the last 20 years or so, much more so than the arterial routes which stick to the main roads.

Presumably usage dropped, and it ended up being a vicious circle - usage dropped, so the service was cut, so the usage dropped further, until eventually routes which had a frequent all-day service, using double-deckers, in the early 90s disappeared altogether. The most savage cuts have been in the past 10-15 years or so: I do remember the provision in the early-to-mid 00s was significantly better than today.

 

[Skiddaw]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but something I find irritating is when (admittedly not often these days!) you're sitting on an almost empty train and someone joining the train sits right opposite/behind/in front of you. I'm probably being petty but it always feels like a space invasion to me (and I usually move elsewhere).

 

[xotGD]

If there are only two single seats available and a couple get on the train, it 8s a nice thing to do to offer to move so that they can sit together.

 

[NSE]

If there are only two single seats available and a couple get on the train, it 8s a nice thing to do to offer to move so that they can sit together.

Indeed. But I also think in return you shouldn’t expect too. It depends, if I’m on a standard Croydon to Victoria service I’ve done so many times, I’m happy to move. But if it’s a long distance new route I’m doing and I have specifically arrived in plenty of time to get a window seat for, I won’t be moving. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not being difficult on purpose, but trains are my happy place so I’m not moving. A few exceptions here and there depending on disabilities or something.

 

[iantherev]

I'm sure there's a car forum out there somewhere with a 5-page long "driving etiquette" thread that makes it seem like car driving and car drivers are equally awful. We do all love to moan.

There is - SABRE forum. Numpty overload is currently on Page 862.

 

[Neo9320]

I have seen one instance of a man attempting to use an electric razor on a morning commuter train - he was bluntly told what would happen if he didn't stop.

Oddly enough I seem to recall this was a selling point of the intercity 125 when first on operation. The introductory film showed a man having a shave (in the bathroom of course).
I take it your guy was just at a table then? I can’t shave without a mirror so good luck to him! Lol

 

[route101]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but something I find irritating is when (admittedly not often these days!) you're sitting on an almost empty train and someone joining the train sits right opposite/behind/in front of you. I'm probably being petty but it always feels like a space invasion to me (and I usually move elsewhere).

I always thought when someone does this, it's because they don't want to be alone!

I am not a fan when someone is diagonally behind me, for example me in window and person behind on aisle. Feels like they can see what eating watching and doing on my phone etc.

 

[bramling]

Oddly enough I seem to recall this was a selling point of the intercity 125 when first on operation. The introductory film showed a man having a shave (in the bathroom of course).
I take it your guy was just at a table then? I can’t shave without a mirror so good luck to him! Lol

I’ve shaved on a 365 into London at 0500 in the morning. I wouldn’t do it with anyone else in the carriage though.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Provided there is not an audible boom boom boom.


And don't give out your credit card details for the rest of the carriage to hear - it has happened on a train I was on. So stupid!

Hmm what to buy first... springs to mind when the clueless do stunts like this. Its the same when they're saying their number out loud too. Massive risk.

 

[Llandudno]

Banning the eating of:
McDonalds
Burger King
TacoBell
Kebabs
Fish & Chips
Pukka/Hollands Pies
Doughnuts
Popcorn
Crisps
Chocolate
Haribos
Chicken Chow Mein
Vindaloo
Hot Dogs
Pizza

Drinking of:
Beer
Lager
Cider
Wine
Milk Shakes
Various fruit flavoured Gin/Vodka can drinks

All of the above and the associated aromas and waste can be found on every Merseyrail unit after 7pm on a Saturday evening…

 

[AY1975]

What annoys me is

People who eat and drink on trains. Ever. And people who have eaten or drink before they get on. Ever. In their lives. You either exist through the processing and consumption of foods and liquids or you get the train. Make a choice.

Please never consume own-purchased hot food on board (or ideally, bring it on board unless in a sealed plastic or other container). Maccas, Burger King (Hungry Jacks in my country), fish'n'chips, Indian, Chinese or other Asian food...

It is surely unreasonable to expect people to go without anything to eat or drink on a long-distance journey lasting several hours, but if you do eat or drink anything you need to be considerate to other passengers especially when it comes to hot food or anything with a strong smell. Maybe a ban on either all food and drink or just hot food and alcohol is reasonable on short-distance trains, though.

As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some trains have a "hot buffet", so I don't see why consuming own-purchased hot food on board is any different from consuming hot food bought from the buffet (or from a station outlet before boarding).

 

[TPO]

So we should encourage people to drive rather than use the train, because their kids might make a bit of noise during the journey. Seriously?

There's a BIG difference between a baby crying (but parents trying to calm it) and semi feral-toddlers running riot whilst the parents ignore the behaviour and remained glued to phones.

Am I the only one who finds this whole thread a massive advert for car travel?

Thinking back to the 90s, I simply don’t recall rail travel being this much aggro. Did people really behave better then, or is it rose-tinted spectacles?

Covid seems to have made things even worse, lots of people with experience of dealing with the public say they find people much more feral now compared to 2019. Months of not interacting with strangers, and possibly in some cases not having to confirm to the behavioural standards required of working in a communal office workplace, seems to have made some people rather self-oriented.

No you're not, there is IMO an undertone in some contributions of "if you don't like noise, tough suck it up or take the car." Which overlooks the fact that for some people sensory distress from noise causing pain and anxiety is very real.

And yes people have become more feral, although I think the months without interaction just accelerated an existing trend. I believe behaviour on trains was better in the 80s and early 90s, maybe partly because the ability to constantly generate noise via phone, tablet etc was non existent, plus manners and social behaviours were consciously taught. What amazes me these days is the number of folk who cannot live without a constant "thumb thump noise" backing track. Yet prior to the invention of the Sony Walkman and the Ghetto Blaster (showing my age), the only real background track was folks who had the TV on all the time, and they could only do that at home in one room

Fair enough but what about in Avanti quiet coaches? Just seems really unfair to allow families with young children and babies in there considering how likely they are to make noise or start crying.

As I suffer with sensory issues it can be distressing to listen to.

Indeed, and when the favourite method of keeping a child occupied is a tablet with loud kids programme and adults also on screens with no headphones it's a painful cacophony. Not to mention poor socialisation for a child.

As a noise sensitive autistic person I figured out ages ago that having a disability which is not visible or requiring a wheelchair means that many public spaces including trains are not generally accessible. Mind you, its still not ideal for wheelchair users ( especially on buses); there seems to be a lack of understanding that for the wheelchair user they have no choice, whereas someone using a fashion statement mega buggy that they cannot fold is a choice that imposes on others. But too often the person without a choice is the one disadvantaged.

TPO

 

[AY1975]

I've set up a separate thread on etiquette that passengers used to be expected to observe that doesn't apply today:

TRIVIA: Unwritten etiquette that passengers used to be expected to observe that doesn't apply today

Following on from the existing thread on unwritten rail traveller etiquette at https://railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-unwritten-etiquette-as-a-railway-passenger.237131/ I thought how about a separate thread on rules of etiquette that passengers were expected to observe in days gone by but that...

railforums.co.uk

 

[Mikey C]

It's not so much that, as that in many such estates there is a pathetic or non-existent bus service. People need cars to get to work, shops and everywhere. It shouldn't be like that of course but it's not going to get any easier.

Once people get a car because there us no other way of getting to their estate, you're going to use it instead of train travel, as you've already paid the up front cost for the car. Even with the current sky high fuel prices, the marginal cost is still cheaper to drive your family to the seaside than taking the train.

 

[GusB]

Banning the eating of:
McDonalds
Burger King
TacoBell
Kebabs
Fish & Chips
Pukka/Hollands Pies
Doughnuts
Popcorn
Crisps
Chocolate
Haribos
Chicken Chow Mein
Vindaloo
Hot Dogs
Pizza

Drinking of:
Beer
Lager
Cider
Wine
Milk Shakes
Various fruit flavoured Gin/Vodka can drinks

All of the above and the associated aromas and waste can be found on every Merseyrail unit after 7pm on a Saturday evening…

Perhaps you should consider finding a cave and withdrawing from all human activity.

 

[saxsux]

Oddly enough I seem to recall this was a selling point of the intercity 125 when first on operation. The introductory film showed a man having a shave (in the bathroom of course).
I take it your guy was just at a table then? I can’t shave without a mirror so good luck to him! Lol

Not so long ago, shaver sockets were common in train toilets! I remember all the Mk3 carriages on the GEML had them.

I'd imagine shaving in the loo to be perfectly acceptable. Doing it in the saloon, on the other hand...

 

[AM9]

Not so long ago, shaver sockets were common in train toilets! I remember all the Mk3 carriages on the GEML had them.

I'd imagine shaving in the loo to be perfectly acceptable. Doing it in the saloon, on the other hand...

Other than tying up a limited resource (i.e. a WC) doing something that could be done elsewhere at no inconvenience to others.

 

[Wolfie]

Other than tying up a limited resource (i.e. a WC) doing something that could be done elsewhere at no inconvenience to others.

Given that most trains now have significantly less toilets l'm pretty sure that is why there are no longer shaver sockets.

 

[Dai Corner]

Given that most trains now have significantly less toilets l'm pretty sure that is why there are no longer shaver sockets.

Though aren't the majority of electric shavers rechargeable now? I haven't owned one for about thirty years though, I'll admit.

 

[Llandudno]

Perhaps you should consider finding a cave and withdrawing from all human activity.

On occasions I am one of the culprits, apart from the milk shake obviously…!