[trivia] What is the quickest journey one can make that isn't valid using a single ticket?

[infobleep]

As the title says, what is the quickest journey one can make between two stations or other stopping point, that isn't valid using a single ticket or no single ticket exists?

I'll only include modes of transport for which point to point rail tickets are valid. So it rules out travel cards and plus bus tickets but includes buses if a point to point ticket allows for them to be used.

 

[paddington]

Yeovil Junction to Castle Cary on the 1646 takes 20 minutes and no single exists

 

[AlterEgo]

Are walking interchanges allowable?

 

[Merseysider]

On Fridays which Northern aren’t striking on, Heaton Chapel to Reddish South takes 14 minutes. This journey has no fare.

0913 Heaton Chapel - Stockport 0917
0922 Stockport - Reddish South 0927

 

[infobleep]

Are walking interchanges allowable?

Yes as long as they might be considered reasonable. I know that can be debated.

 

[Springs Branch]

Walton and Rice Lane in Liverpool have no point-to-point fares between them (unsurprising if you know local geography).
I expected these two were good candidates for a quick journey, given frequent Merseyrail services & short distance (takes 2-3 mins) to interchange at Kirkdale.

Turns out, due to bad luck with timings at Kirkdale and the all-day clockface timetable, trips can take a remarkably long time in both directions - unless you ignore National Rail's minimum 5 minute connection time.
An 8 minute journey is possible, provided a 3 minute leap from Liverpool-bound to Kirkby-bound platform is feasible at Kirkdale.

Best is 8 minutes:
Walton dep xx09 - Kirkdale arr xx11
Kirkdale dep xx14 - Rice Lane arr xx17

Next fastest is 19 minutes:
Rice Lane dep xx04 - Kirkdale arr xx07
Kirkdale dep xx21 - Walton arr xx23

Without the +3 at Kirkdale it's 23 mins:
Walton dep xx09 - Kirkdale arr xx11
Kirkdale dep xx29 - Rice Lane arr xx32

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes as long as they might be considered reasonable. I know that can be debated.

Wigan North Western to Wigan Wallgate is a published walking interchange valid on a rail ticket. Walking is a common mode of transport covered by a rail ticket.

No point to point ticket exists.

358 feet.

 

[cuccir]

If you include stations that you can walk between, there'll be plenty. You can't get a ticket from St Pancras to Kings Cross; they're separated by the width of Pancras Road! Google Maps measures the closest bits of the buildings at about 85 feet, or 25 meters, about here. If you allow Usain Bolt to get a running start I reckon he'd have been able to cover that in his peak in about 1.8 seconds.

For timetabled services, there are roughly 12 trains a day each way between Newcastle and Manors. The journey is timetabled at 2 minutes, though Realtime Trains shows it usually takes 90 seconds. There's no ticket available between the two.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are fares between Newcastle and Manors:

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=NCL&dest=MAS

 

[Wallsendmag]

Are you sure there are no tickets between Newcastle and Manors as that's the ticket I use for Gateline testing at Newcastle.

 

[The Lad]

So what happens fare wise if you travel between the two?

 

[AlterEgo]

If you include stations that you can walk between, there'll be plenty. You can't get a ticket from St Pancras to Kings Cross; they're separated by the width of Pancras Road! Google Maps measures the closest bits of the buildings at about 85 feet, or 25 meters, about here. If you allow Usain Bolt to get a running start I reckon he'd have been able to cover that in his peak in about 1.8 seconds.

For timetabled services, there are roughly 12 trains a day each way between Newcastle and Manors. The journey is timetabled at 2 minutes, though Realtime Trains shows it usually takes 90 seconds. There's no ticket available between the two.

Would a journey planner include the walk?

I know you can walk, but is the walking route published and does it appear in Journey Planners? IIRC it usually appears as a Tube transfer. (Thinking, maybe at the close of Tube service it may appear as a walk but can’t force an itinerary to say that)

 

[cuccir]

Are you sure there are no tickets between Newcastle and Manors as that's the ticket I use for Gateline testing at Newcastle.

Ah, my mistake - I could have sworn that there wasn't!

 

[cuccir]

Would a journey planner include the walk?

I know you can walk, but is the walking route published and does it appear in Journey Planners? IIRC it usually appears as a Tube transfer. (Thinking, maybe at the close of Tube service it may appear as a walk but can’t force an itinerary to say that)

Are you thinking Euston - St Pancras? It's not possible to transfer by tube between Kings Cross and St Pancras because they share a tube station!

 

[AlterEgo]

Are you thinking Euston - St Pancras? It's not possible to transfer by tube between Kings Cross and St Pancras because they share a tube station!

Yes, you spotted my, er, deliberate error!

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you include stations that you can walk between, there'll be plenty.

If we're including walking then the answer is St Budeaux Ferry Road to St Budeaux Victoria Road, which is about 20ft and five seconds.

 

[A Challenge]

It has a direct service as well

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Walton and Rice Lane in Liverpool have no point-to-point fares between them (unsurprising if you know local geography).
I expected these two were good candidates for a quick journey, given frequent Merseyrail services & short distance (takes 2-3 mins) to interchange at Kirkdale.

Turns out, due to bad luck with timings at Kirkdale and the all-day clockface timetable, trips can take a remarkably long time in both directions - unless you ignore National Rail's minimum 5 minute connection time.
An 8 minute journey is possible, provided a 3 minute leap from Liverpool-bound to Kirkby-bound platform is feasible at Kirkdale.

Best is 8 minutes:
Walton dep xx09 - Kirkdale arr xx11
Kirkdale dep xx14 - Rice Lane arr xx17

Next fastest is 19 minutes:
Rice Lane dep xx04 - Kirkdale arr xx07
Kirkdale dep xx21 - Walton arr xx23

Without the +3 at Kirkdale it's 23 mins:
Walton dep xx09 - Kirkdale arr xx11
Kirkdale dep xx29 - Rice Lane arr xx32

If, for some bizarre reason, you wanted to make that journey, would it not be better to change at Sandhills anyway? No +3 needed for a cross-platform change!