Trivia - Working of trains on inclines

[Wilts Wanderer]

Between Exeter St David’s and Exeter Central the ruling gradient is 1:36 and consequently trains in both directions may not be stopped on the gradient by signals. Similarly while a train is signalled down into Exeter St Davids, there are restrictions on other movements at the far end of platforms 1-3.

Before it closed I recall the 1:30 incline between Folkestone Harbour and Folkestone Junction sidings required the route to be set right into the sidings before a train could depart the harbour to avoid it being stalled on the incline.

What other gradients in the U.K. are severe enough to still have special operating instructions in the modern day?

 

[zwk500]

The obvious one is the Lickey incline, where clear routes have to be set through Bromsgrove station if voyagers have an engine out.
There's also instructions that loco-hauled trains from Longhedge Jn to Clapham Junction Windsor Line platforms have to be given a clean run.

Old hill bank near Stourbridge has requirements for banking locos above certain weights but I'm not sure if there are signalling instructions about clear runs.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

HST's (remember them ?) - not allowed on the South Devon banks with a known defective or dead power car....

 

[_toommm_]

HST's (remember them ?) - not allowed on the South Devon banks with a known defective or dead power car....

Similarly, going up to Inverness (Slochd?) I believe HSTs either had to have a clear route on only one powercar or wouldn’t be allowed to attempt the climb at all.

Not sure if this applied exclusively to LNER HSTs with them being 2+9, or if it also applies to ScotRail 2+4.

 

[Ashley Hill]

HST's (remember them ?) - not allowed on the South Devon banks with a known defective or dead power car....

IIRC they could run in the down direction unassisted due to failure as long as they had a clear run through the DM at Totnes.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

IIRC they could run in the down direction unassisted due to failure as long as they had a clear run through the DM at Totnes.

I think the same also applies at Bodmin Parkway in the up direction?

 

[Spartacus]

I think there's still a restriction at Tunstead with trains departing there being planned to have a clear run through Chinley South.

 

[O L Leigh]

The obvious one is the Lickey incline, where clear routes have to be set through Bromsgrove station if voyagers have an engine out.

Voyagers frequently run with one engine isolated which doesn’t cause them any problems getting up Bromsgrove Bank. You may be thinking of HSTs, although a Cl170 on reduced power may also need a little help to get up.

 

[Scotrail84]

8 or 9 car HSTs with one power car out were not allowed to call at Inverkeithing in the UP direction as they might not make it to the top of the summit at North Queensferry just before the Forth Bridge. They needed a clear run through the station and up the hill.

 

[paolocoopio]

I always used to enjoy seeing the banking engines at Miles Platting when I was younger.

 

[zwk500]

Voyagers frequently run with one engine isolated which doesn’t cause them any problems getting up Bromsgrove Bank. You may be thinking of HSTs, although a Cl170 on reduced power may also need a little help to get up.

Its been a while since I read the instructions, but there's definitely something about voyagers in it. I may have the number of engines wrong between 4, 5 and coupled formations.

 

[sw1ller]

I know the Chirk log train must have a clear run from chester to Wrexham (not sure of exact points) to get up the 1:82 Rossett bank. I think a driver told me it hits the bottom at 60mph and it’s only doing 12mph at the top on a good day.

 

[Ken H]

any restrictions on the long drag from Settle to Dent?

 

[zwk500]

any restrictions on the long drag from Settle to Dent?

Its wholly within 1 Absolute block section so even if a train is checked at Settle Jn they have a clear run to the top once the signal is off

 

[Ken H]

Its wholly within 1 Absolute block section so even if a train is checked at Settle Jn they have a clear run to the top once the signal is off

there are IB signals round Horton.

 

[Tomnick]

there are IB signals round Horton.

...and Blea Moor SB.

 

[6Gman]

If railway publishers stepped aside from constant rehashes of photo albums and gave us an authoritative history of banking workings and the like (I'll even give them a title, "Assistance Required") I would be a happy bunny.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

If railway publishers stepped aside from constant rehashes of photo albums and gave us an authoritative history of banking workings and the like (I'll even give them a title, "Assistance Required") I would be a happy bunny.

Me too!

Similarly if someone could provide an in depth summary of parcels train diagrams in the 1980s…

 

[Deepgreen]

I suppose it hasn't happened yet but I wonder what engineering trains would make of the 1 in 29 at Blackfriars if stopped on the climb. A 66 at each end would probably not struggle even on that incline. I just about remember my father taking me to see the Cromford and High Peak line in its last days, and watching a train of five enthusiast-filled brake vans double-headed by saddle tanks failing to make the top of the 1 in 14 Hopton Incline; the UK's steepest-ever adhesion-worked gradient. Seeing his cine film of it makes me realise what an amazing piece of railway it was. The locos didn't slip to a stand, they just ground to a halt. Friction didn't lose out to gravity; cylinder pressure did!

 

[SuspectUsual]

Am I right that the Liverpool to Drax biomass trains are still banned from Miles Platting heading east (ie loaded)?

 

[Watershed]

Am I right that the Liverpool to Drax biomass trains are still banned from Miles Platting heading east (ie loaded)?

Yes, which is why they take an extremely circuitous route via Hartford, Northwich, Stockport, Denton and then round to Diggle (via Guide Bridge) or to the Calder Valley (via Baguley Fold and Brewery Jns).

 

[43066]

I suppose it hasn't happened yet but I wonder what engineering trains would make of the 1 in 29 at Blackfriars if stopped on the climb.

319s certainly used to struggle with that incline, on occasion!

 

[DoubleO]

Grand Central had a special instruction for Greetland Bank during poor adhesion

 

[NI 271]

I know the Chirk log train must have a clear run from chester to Wrexham (not sure of exact points) to get up the 1:82 Rossett bank. I think a driver told me it hits the bottom at 60mph and it’s only doing 12mph at the top on a good day.

It's not uncommon for 6J37 to be held just after Pulford LC if a passenger train is heading from Wrexham at the same time. With a 70 pulling it, it'll still be going above 30mph over the top of Gresford Bank with a run or from a stand, with 66s (or when Colas had them, 60s) it would be mid-20s mph, even from a standing start at Pulford. It's only 1400 tonnes. Only time you'd drop to 12mph would be during leaffall, and even then it'd be rare, say if drizzle was falling, although it has slipped to a stand and required assistance on a small number of occasions - I was banked up when it happened to me during my handling hours training in 2014.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2021 ==

Its wholly within 1 Absolute block section so even if a train is checked at Settle Jn they have a clear run to the top once the signal is off

It's most definitely not, or I'd want words with someone, having been stopped with a 1700 tonne train at Horton and again at Ribblehead one day last week...

 

[zwk500]

It's most definitely not, or I'd want words with someone, having been stopped with a 1700 tonne train at Horton and again at Ribblehead one day last week...

Fair enough, I've obviously got confused somewhere there!

 

[SteveyBee131]

Am I right that the Liverpool to Drax biomass trains are still banned from Miles Platting heading east (ie loaded)?

Yes, which is why they take an extremely circuitous route via Hartford, Northwich, Stockport, Denton and then round to Diggle (via Guide Bridge) or to the Calder Valley (via Baguley Fold and Brewery Jns).

This train and others (the loaded binliner featured in one of Don Coffey's YouTube videos is another that springs to mind)

 

[AM9]

I suppose it hasn't happened yet but I wonder what engineering trains would make of the 1 in 29 at Blackfriars if stopped on the climb. A 66 at each end would probably not struggle even on that incline.

I don't think that class 66s are cleared for the Thameslink core. The only class that seems to be cleared now with the harrington humps on the core station platforms is the class 73, and there have been quite a few posessions even since the core was cleared for 700s, so I would imagine that they could pull an appropriate load up either of the 3.44% gradients albeit slowly which wouldn't be an issue.

 

[dubscottie]

8 or 9 car HSTs with one power car out were not allowed to call at Inverkeithing in the UP direction as they might not make it to the top of the summit at North Queensferry just before the Forth Bridge. They needed a clear run through the station and up the hill.

I always thought that was the case but I witnessed more than one HST slowly crawling up the bank on one powercar in GNER days having called at Inverkeithing.
Somebody posted here (a good while back) the rules regarding that. IIRC it only applied to certain powercars.
It may have been early in the ScotRail HST thread.

 

[Taunton]

8 or 9 car HSTs with one power car out were not allowed to call at Inverkeithing in the UP direction as they might not make it to the top of the summit at North Queensferry just before the Forth Bridge. They needed a clear run through the station and up the hill.

Strangely, back in the day a Class 40, normal power in the 1960s-mid 70s on full-size Aberdeen-Edinburgh services, even the heavy overnights to Kings Cross, and at 2,000hp less than a single HST power car, regularly called at Inverkeithing (principally for the Navy traffic from Rosyth) without issue.

 

[Ken H]

...

It's most definitely not, or I'd want words with someone, having been stopped with a 1700 tonne train at Horton and again at Ribblehead one day last week...

I used to live by the S&C around 1980. regularly saw/heard unfitted freights with a cl 4x struggling. the engine would roar, then be cut back. The driver was obviously having trouble getting a grip. I think you could walk faster! Must have taken a while to clear the section to Horton. (Horton SB was open then)