Trying to be clever - Gatwick to Shoreham-by-Sea (Off Peak Return)

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by dn88, 18 Aug 2015.

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  1. dn88

    dn88 Member

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    In a few weeks I will land at Gatwick Airport on a Thursday evening around 10pm. I am staying in a hotel in Brighton that evening. The next morning (after 10am), I need to continue a few stops to Shoreham-by-Sea. Later on that evening, I will then return to Brighton for a few hours, then continue to Gatwick Airport.

    I've checked and for some reason I can't get an Off Peak Return from Gatwick to Shoreham. However, there is an Off Peak Return coming up Gatwick - Lancing (one stop after Shoreham) for £14.20 using my Network railcard discount.

    My question is, taking into account the break-of-journey rules, and date of commencement of journey, whether I would get away with using this one return ticket Gatwick-Lancing for all of the journeys I need to complete? To summarise:

    Day 1

    10pm Gatwick - Brighton

    Day 2

    11am Brighton - Shoreham
    7pm Shoreham - Brighton
    11pm Brighton - Gatwick

    Many thanks in advance for your help!
     
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  3. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119491

    In view of the above discussion, I can't see a valid objection. Stopping/starting short and BOJ overnight are both allowed.

    You are correct in saying that there are only Offpeak Day Returns for the shorter journey, TBH surprised Lancing is different.
     
    Last edited: 18 Aug 2015
  4. dn88

    dn88 Member

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    Thanks for that, so it seems I can get all of those journeys on one ticket :)

    It's strange that I can find an off-peak return to Brighton, and Lancing, but not Shoreham-by-Sea. Hey ho, if the Lancing version works and I just jump off one stop early then that should be fine!
     
  5. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    I can only find Offpeak DAY Returns for GTW-BTN.
     
  6. dn88

    dn88 Member

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    Sorry to drag an old thread up, but I have a slight variation on this that I would like to seek your advice on.

    Here is what I need to achieve:

    Thursday 10pm: Gatwick Airport - Brighton
    Friday 11am: Brighton - Shoreham-by-Sea
    Friday 7pm: Shoreham-by-Sea - Brighton
    Friday 11pm: Brighton - East Croydon

    If I buy online an Off Peak Return from East Croydon to Shoreham-by-Sea, and pick it up from the TVM at Gatwick, would this then cover me for all of the aforementioned journeys?

    According to my knowledge of the journey break rules I believe so, but a professional opinion would be much appreciated!
     
  7. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    On the same basis as my previous reply I reckon it's fine. Restriction 4B has no BOJ restriction or relevant time restriction.
     
  8. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    I would agree this is fine for the reasons given above. Let us know though if you have any issues using the Friday 11am: Brighton - Shoreham-by-Sea leg. I am convinved though the ticket is valid because of the overnight break of journey rule. It is just not something many people do and therefore many rail staff are not aware of it.
     
  9. dn88

    dn88 Member

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    Thank you.

    Any good phrases/rules that I could quote on the day to make it sound like I know what I'm talking about?

    The last thing I want is to be majorly held up and/or be forced in to buying a new ticket.

    Also, getting on at Gatwick should be ok even though ticket begins in East Croydon?
     
  10. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    Yes, you are allowed to start your journey at Gatwick even though the ticket is from East Croydon. If the ticket doesn't work on the barrier then the gateline staff should let you though. When re-starting your journey at Brighton the next day it will be interesting to see if your ticket still works on the barrier. I suspect it won't but the gateline staff should let you through. If they, or anyone on the train says anything, I would just explain the you begun your journey the previous evening and broke your journey overnight. I would explain that an overnight break of journey is permitted on an Off Peak Return and you are finishing your travel on day 2.

    If they say that all outward travel must be complete by the end of day one then this is nonsance.
     
  11. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    If you see the guard on the first train ask them to endorse it-

    Used between Croydon and Brighton only on <the Date>

    That way it would remove any possibility of a problem the next day.
    No you don't need to but it's called being proactive!
     
  12. globetrotter

    globetrotter Member

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    As a note, if not wanting or needing to travel to East Croydon I'd be inclined to buy the ticket from Redhill to Shoreham-by-Sea and in any case before travelling go to brfares.com to print out the conditions [4B].

    There it states, "... the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning. If the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day. Unless otherwise indicated in the relevant restriction code, time restrictions apply as from the initial origin station on both days. The appropriate restrictions for the actual day on which travel is being undertaken apply (for example, it may be that day 1 is on Sunday, no restrictions apply, but on day 2, the Monday-Friday restrictions apply). All travel must be completed by 04:29 in the morning after this second day".

    "Cannot" works in your favour, so if you were for example to take a late train to Brighton (as you are proposing) the itinerary that you propose it ought not to be a problem. You are the one that decides, for whatever reason, that you cannot complete the journey on Day 1.
     
  13. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    As a journey starting at 2200 can be completed the same day (very easily) I don't see how those restrictions actually help the OP, it appears that he is basically trying to extract the urine!
     
  14. dn88

    dn88 Member

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    Funnily enough I do actually need to get back to East Croydon on the Friday.

    Thank you for the link.

    I actually land at 2205 and the last train from Gatwick which would get me to Shoreham without a long connection in Brighton departs at 2351.

    Surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility that I get "stranded" in Brighton and decide to stay there the night before continuing to Shoreham in the morning? And does a guard have the right to question my logic, or do they have to accept my decision seeing as the T&C's allow me to continue on day 2?

    I could for example have bought a ticket and then realised nearer the time that the only hotel I could find for the night is in Brighton (which is actually close to the truth in my case!).
     
  15. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Yes of course they can!
    Whether they would bother is another question.
     
  16. dn88

    dn88 Member

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    But would something along the lines of:

    "Seeing as I arrived so late last night I decided to break my journey in Brighton" be sufficient? I can't see how they could disprove my logic any other way?
     
  17. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Probably!
     
  18. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    My understandng is that on the Outward part of an off peak return the customer can break their journey at any point en-route and does not need to wait until it becomes possible to finish the journey on day one. The point is that all of the travel on the outward part is compleated on day two (which would be the very early hours of day 3). As doing so would be acting within the terms and conditions of the ticket I would argue that no guard would have the right whatsoever to question you becuse your ticket is totally valid and you do not need to give a reason as to your actions when travelling on a valid ticket.

    That said, most staff do not understand the conditions of the outward part of an Off Peak and wrongly assume that all outward travel must be finished by the end of day one. Sadly this therefore does lead to some conversations and I'm sure (and indeed have witnessed) passengers being told their ticket is not valid when he fact it is.
     
  19. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    It is up to to passenger if he wants to have an overnight BOJ on an Off Peak Single or the outward portion of an Off Peak Return. That has been clarified by ATOC.
     
  20. dn88

    dn88 Member

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    Just for future reference in case anyone picks up this thread in the future.

    I went ahead and bought a Redhill-Shoreham Off-Peak Return.

    It allowed me through the barrier at Gatwick on day 1, and again through the barrier in Brighton on day 2 when I continued my journey. It also worked fine in reverse. I then had a separate single from Redhill-East Croydon for the final part of the journey.

    All in all spent £14.20 + £2.90 (with Railcard) which saved around £6 compared to buying the Brighton-Shoreham-Brighton tickets separately.
     
  21. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    I'd glad the ticket let you though the barrier. The barrriers at Brighton I do like as they accept SN advance tickets. However, the Southern barriers at Hove and Haywards Heath always reject my Advance tickets (on both departure and arriving at the end of a journey). Never happens at Brighton though :)
     
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