Tube Dissertation Project

[Freddie91]

I am an undergrad at the University of Edinburgh conducting a Geography Dissertation looking into how Security features (post 7/7/2005 attacks) have affected people's use of the Tube. I will also be asking participants whether armed police or the military in stations would make them feel safer.

I am looking for people willing to partake in Go-Along Interviews - I will accompany you on a journey you regularly take, a commute etc.

I am looking to do these interviews 16-20th October or 20-24 November. This should not add more than 5 mins to your commute and I will be willing to undertake them at the time of your usual journey.

All participants will be anonymous and a copy of my final report will be provided.

Please could anyone interested please post below.

Thank you

Freddie

 

[telstarbox]

Are you just looking for commuters who use the Underground, or National Rail as well? The suburban rail network in London is similar in some ways to the Tube - ticket barriers at stations, driver-only operation on some lines, crowded/standing room only during the peak periods, etc.

 

[Freddie91]

Just tube users thank you

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Speaking personally I haven't noticed any difference at all in the "before" and "after" in terms of the numbers of staff, their attentiveness or numbers of police around!

 

[yorkie]

Is that anything on the 'tube map', anything London Underground, or actual tube stock trains only?

What if someone's commute is for a journey that could involve a tube train but equally may not? (e.g. Harrow & Wealdstone to Queens Park, Uxbridge to Rayners Lane depending on your definition, West Ham to Barking, etc?)

I will probably be doing some tube journeys on 22-24 November, but not a commute, so it depends on how regular is defined (e.g. I'll do a journey like Victoria to King's Cross at least 6 times a year).

London Underground feels a lot safer than the Mankychester Metrostink, that's for sure, though I am not entirely sure why. And as a whole it doesn't seem any more or less safer since 2005, though some of the stations have been much improved since then.

 

[tsr]

I'd be willing to take part in something like this, but my Central London "commuting" is rather irregular. I may or may not use the Tube (i.e. I may use National Rail services or a non-rail mode of transport instead), I may travel at weird and variable times throughout the week, compared to the "9-5"... however, the probability at present is that I'd be making quite a few Tube journeys to vaguely the same locations (ish) throughout those dates.

If you're still interested, do drop me a Private Message (I'm sure Yorkie or another admin/mod can enable that feature for you).

 

[Freddie91]

Thank you all very much for your responses, they are much appreciated.

*Peter: Thank you for your observation. I am aware that there doesn't seem to have been much done, however I feel that may be the point - looking at the reading that I have done. There are a few subtle things that "we" have all just got used to/don't really notice such as changes in the wording of announcements etc. Would you be willing to take part?

*Yorkie: Thank you very much, all I am looking for is people who have a knowledge of the tube to discuss how different features make people feel about safety and suspicion. It is the whole experience from entering the station at one end to leaving at the end of the journey. I would be keen to hear how you feel it is safer than the Manchester metro. So could I please pencil you in for late November?

*TSR: Thank you, about to pm you now

 

[Clip]

Im a regular commuter on the tube(every day) and was involved in the atrocities of 2005 where I worked but I can honestly say that much of what has happened since then you actually dont notice/see so I am unsure what help people could give you for your dissertation im afraid. Sorry.

 

[Freddie91]

Im a regular commuter on the tube(every day) and was involved in the atrocities of 2005 where I worked but I can honestly say that much of what has happened since then you actually dont notice/see so I am unsure what help people could give you for your dissertation im afraid. Sorry.

Hi Clip,

Thank you for your response. Whilst the changes haven't been drastic, they will have affected peoples travel patterns. These changes have been deliberately made so that they are not blatantly clear. There was a increase in announcements reminding us to be vigilant both after 9/11 and 7/7, as well as poster campaigns encouraging us to report things. This makes us suspicious of things we were not in the past. Certain groups in society have received increased stop and searches as well as racist abuse that may affect their travel plans. Everyone will be able to comment on how they feel with regard to armed police in stations and the continued talk about plastic bomb detectors etc.

I know it seems as though I am clutching at straws and it wasn't until I looked into something mentioned in a lecture that I realized how this 'performance' of security is everywhere and how we have become accustomed to things as they have been slowly introduced. People can be suspicious and uneasy and still appear unaffected.

Thank you very much for your concerns. and i am sorry that you got caught up that day

Freddie

 

[Peter Mugridge]

*Peter: Thank you for your observation. I am aware that there doesn't seem to have been much done, however I feel that may be the point - looking at the reading that I have done. There are a few subtle things that "we" have all just got used to/don't really notice such as changes in the wording of announcements etc. Would you be willing to take part?

Never really pay attention to the announcements; apart from being cloth eared they are so repetitive that I don't even try to follow them any more. I do have a cochlear implant which means I can pick out some of them ( others are too unclear ) but when they play the same thing every 10 minutes or so... *yawn*

I am not sure I would qualify for what you want as I don't actually commute in London although on average I do visit London just under once a week, including in peak hours.

 

[Clip]

Most announcements are not paid attention to,as you say Peter, and the ones that say to keep your stuff with you at all times have been around since I dont know when but it was before the bommbings that for sure.

We dont want armed Police as I dont think there is any need - along with metal detectors because if there was then surely this wouldve been implemented during the IRA's terror campaign surely?


Now the poster campaigns seem to have gone back to being careful when your off on the hoy and to take your time and dont rush. Back to the way they were really and I just cant say I have seen any change due to racial abuse or stop and searches, In fact there are more and more people using the tube now - especially on my route - the Vic line - so I really wouldnt say people have changed.

Maybe you are asking in the wrong places?

 

[maniacmartin]

Have you considered doing the interviews online or by telephone, or just turning up at a tuibe station to interview random people?

Co-ordinating meeting you on a commute sounds like a bit of a hassle, especially given that the interviewee may live on the opposite side of London to you. Also, a lot of commuter trains are a bit too packed to have a decent conversation

 

[34D]

Hi Clip,

Thank you for your response. Whilst the changes haven't been drastic, they will have affected peoples travel patterns.

Erm, you haven't done your research yet, so don't know this.....

 

[Clip]

Erm, you haven't done your research yet, so don't know this.....

I didnt want to point that out

after re-reading the reply to myself it appears that the OP really wants to concentrate on the racial aspect for his dissertation even though stop and search has been going on for what seems like an age now and well before the bombings. Also I am unsure about the racist abuse thing stopping people from travelling, I have not read nor noticed an increase in any racist abuse and I really do use Londons transport system a lot all the time from LuL to LO to DLR and to say people have changed their travel arrangements because of this sounds strange when I still see the same people from all races on every mode of transport still, so im puzzled.

And I have only seen armed Police in stations when they have recieved some intel about something - its not been the norm for them to be present on stations whatsoever, except for maybe the first few days/weeks after 2005.

So I am really unsre what they want. Maybe if the OP can actually give us som eideaas of the questions they are going to ask then we could get a better insight into the research because at the moment I am thinking it is already skewed for one direction rather than it being an open Q&A.

 

[Freddie91]

Hi Clip,

Whilst I am yet to interview people, I have spent some time on the tube, looking at security features so I know that they do not stand out. The main theme in my dissertation is fear and suspicion, and how the 'performance' of security can heighten fear as well as make us feel safer. Having read into ideas such as 'Banal Terrorism' (gov policies/practices to show they are protecting us whilst reminding us of the threat) and 'citadelization' of urban areas i.e. security and military technology subtly brought into our everyday lives (Coaffee, Graham have researched this) do change atmospheres, and are in practice on the tube. Due to the nature of the tube, they cant install airportesq security, it wouldn't work but some tech is or has been suggested on the tube. Facial recognition software is has been used for pick pockets and could be used for more, the congestion charge cameras for example have been used to track known vehicles and not alert police if they go to the city of London as reported by Coaffee.

I am looking at whether this all makes people feel safer. Would armed soldiers (as mentioned by Cindi Katz in new york) or police make people feel safer? A quarter of young people in the UK do not trust Muslims as the Comres survey showed earlier this month. This may well make people feel much less comfortable on the tube as they appear. Many stations have been target hardened and designed to reduce the impact of attacks and authors such as david bissel have suggested that atmospheres change commuter habits.

I am looking at bridging the gap between these and asking people how they feel in relation to this performance of security, what makes them feel safer and what worries them. Whilst it hasn't affected your commutes (or you haven't let it - there is a lot of work done in Israel on this) it may have others. They may just be getting on with it but would feel safer with or without certain things e.g. armed police.

 

[lonogrol]

I am interested that you are focussing on the tube when only one of the four bombs on 7 July [which you refer to] actually went off on a tube train- the others being subsurface trains (& a bus).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I am looking at whether this all makes people feel safer. Would armed soldiers (as mentioned by Cindi Katz in new york) or police make people feel safer?



They may just be getting on with it but would feel safer with or without certain things e.g. armed police.

Doesn't feel much different to me whether or not there are armed police about; I certainly don't feel nervous in Paris when a patrol of three soldiers walks past, for example. Maybe I'm just used to that, having been there so often?

 

[Nym]

The only thing I've noticed recently is that the BTP / Met I saw on St Pancras the other day are now armed with more serious firepower than before, and it seems to be common issue as someone I know has mentioned seeing them with "M4s" (They're not M4s, but they do have enhanced STANAG magazines and are built to the SOCOM standard).

So that's the only public change I've noticed recently.

 

[Clip]

I am interested that you are focussing on the tube when only one of the four bombs on 7 July [which you refer to] actually went off on a tube train- the others being subsurface trains (& a bus).

I think that is being pedantic to the extreme here - outside of the spotters little secular world its all called the tube.

Hi Clip,

<Snip>

I am looking at bridging the gap between these and asking people how they feel in relation to this performance of security, what makes them feel safer and what worries them. Whilst it hasn't affected your commutes (or you haven't let it - there is a lot of work done in Israel on this) it may have others. They may just be getting on with it but would feel safer with or without certain things e.g. armed police.

This then drags me to my original point - People do not know it is there - they cannot see it bar the rare times you may get armed police somewhere but thats only going to be at a major station. If they cant see whats in place then how will they ever know if they feel safer?

 

[lonogrol]

I wasn't trying to be pedantic- Yorkie and Telstarbox asked for clarification over what he meant by tube and he still replied with tube. I am aware also within L.U.L. they also differentiate between the tube lines (& I'm not talking about the former J.N.P. InfraCo.) and the sub surface lines.

 

[Deerfold]

Hi Clip,

Whilst I am yet to interview people, I have spent some time on the tube, looking at security features so I know that they do not stand out.

They don't stand out to you, at the places you have visited.

 

[Nym]

They don't stand out to you, at the places you have visited.

Indeed, some of us notice security features and what's changes on stations since hightened security came about.

 

[simple simon]

I dont commute at present so regret that I woud not be much use to you.

But I would like to make a few points.

Firstly, the proliferation of CCTV did not actually increase safety. Indeed, the 7/7 bombers were filmed by CCTV so its known that they had valid tickets and passed through ticket barriers in ways which would not arose any suspicion. (I was by Checkpoint charlie in Berlin at the time... so the first I knew about it was a phone call from my mother saying that I should not worry, everyone has been accounted for and is alive... a really surreal experience!)

But if CCTV is linked in with activity monitoring software (such as I've seen advocated on the TV) then people who are train spotters or even someone seated on a platform seat waiting for friends will find that staff will come chasing after them on the assumption that they are "up to no good".

Staff nowadays patrol stations on a regular basis checking that everything is OK. I have sometimes received very dirty looks from station staff whilst they are doing this for even noticing what they are doing when they perform their checks - all doors that should be locked are locked, seals on safety equipment intact, etc. (This is when waiting for trains... not when using a camera as I always aim to avoid filming station staff).

I was most peeved when filming (as a trainspotter) at Westminster, to have the railway staff come looking for me to tell me to stop filming because some members of the public had actually reported someone using a camcorder! Members of the public have never advised station staff that there was a trainspotter on the platform anywheer else!) btw, this is a unique and very distinctive modern station with a 'space station' ambiance (especially when using the escalators with the cross girders all around)

Even with all their technical wizardy and even if there were armed guards on the platforms the security people would simply be incapable of detecting people with real ill-intent. Their actions against people using their own cameras only serves to please the HQ public relations control freaks who are frightened that everyone with a half-decent camera wants to film something bad so that they can besmirch the Underground system. People with ill-intent wont want to be noticed; they would use mobile phone cameras or even things like shirt button / other covert surveillance systems.

I am looking at Google Glasses. When available and if affordable.

As Glasgow and New York found, simply banning train spotters is not the solution. All it does is put the backs up of the very people who would notice something amiss and (because they are puzzled) notify staff.

Wishing you good luck with your dissertation,

Simon

 

[Freddie91]

I dont commute at present so regret that I woud not be much use to you.

But I would like to make a few points.

Firstly, the proliferation of CCTV did not actually increase safety. Indeed, the 7/7 bombers were filmed by CCTV so its known that they had valid tickets and passed through ticket barriers in ways which would not arose any suspicion. (I was by Checkpoint charlie in Berlin at the time... so the first I knew about it was a phone call from my mother saying that I should not worry, everyone has been accounted for and is alive... a really surreal experience!)

But if CCTV is linked in with activity monitoring software (such as I've seen advocated on the TV) then people who are train spotters or even someone seated on a platform seat waiting for friends will find that staff will come chasing after them on the assumption that they are "up to no good".

Staff nowadays patrol stations on a regular basis checking that everything is OK. I have sometimes received very dirty looks from station staff whilst they are doing this for even noticing what they are doing when they perform their checks - all doors that should be locked are locked, seals on safety equipment intact, etc. (This is when waiting for trains... not when using a camera as I always aim to avoid filming station staff).

I was most peeved when filming (as a trainspotter) at Westminster, to have the railway staff come looking for me to tell me to stop filming because some members of the public had actually reported someone using a camcorder! Members of the public have never advised station staff that there was a trainspotter on the platform anywheer else!) btw, this is a unique and very distinctive modern station with a 'space station' ambiance (especially when using the escalators with the cross girders all around)

Even with all their technical wizardy and even if there were armed guards on the platforms the security people would simply be incapable of detecting people with real ill-intent. Their actions against people using their own cameras only serves to please the HQ public relations control freaks who are frightened that everyone with a half-decent camera wants to film something bad so that they can besmirch the Underground system. People with ill-intent wont want to be noticed; they would use mobile phone cameras or even things like shirt button / other covert surveillance systems.

I am looking at Google Glasses. When available and if affordable.

As Glasgow and New York found, simply banning train spotters is not the solution. All it does is put the backs up of the very people who would notice something amiss and (because they are puzzled) notify staff.

Wishing you good luck with your dissertation,

Simon

Thank you for your help Simon