Tulse Hill to London Kings Cross 23 July

[infobleep]

I'm sure where to post this.

On the 23 July, I'm traveling from Tulse Hill to London Kings Cross before I board a train to York.

Now, the Transport for London journey planner suggested this route:
432 bus to Brixton.
Tube to Finsbury Park
Train to Kings Cross
I depart at 8:27 and arrive at 09:26.

I told the journey planner I wanted the fastest route, I have no accessibility issues and I can walk for a maximum of 60 minutes, which is the longest allowed.

Surely getting out at Kings Cross St Pancras would be faster than going via Finsbury Park as the tube stops there.

So why is it suggesting I go via Finabury Park or is the walk just so long that Finsbury Park is surprisingly faster?

The other options besides that one suggested, said the same thing, bar the cycling and the bus only options

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Wouldn't the 08.14 to London Bridge ( arrives 08.32 ) then the Northern Line be quicker and easier?

 

[xotGD]

Have you specified the destination as the mainline station? Maybe that is the problem?

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm sure where to post this.

On the 23 July, I'm traveling from Tulse Hill to London Kings Cross before I board a train to York.

Now, the Transport for London journey planner suggested this route:
432 bus to Brixton.
Tube to Finsbury Park
Train to Kings Cross
I depart at 8:27 and arrive at 09:26.

I told the journey planner I wanted the fastest route, I have no accessibility issues and I can walk for a maximum of 60 minutes, which is the longest allowed.

Surely getting out at Kings Cross St Pancras would be faster than going via Finsbury Park as the tube stops there.

So why is it suggesting I go via Finabury Park or is the walk just so long that Finsbury Park is surprisingly faster?

The other options besides that one suggested, said the same thing, bar the cycling and the bus only options

Surely the fastest route is Thameslink to St Pancras?
Or Southern to London Bridge and then Northern line

 

[Magdalia]

If it is a nice morning, you don't have much to carry, and you don't mind the Victoria Line, then a stroll through Brockwell Park to Brixton looks good.

 

[XAM2175]

Surely getting out at Kings Cross St Pancras would be faster than going via Finsbury Park as the tube stops there.

So why is it suggesting I go via Finabury Park or is the walk just so long that Finsbury Park is surprisingly faster?

Surely the fastest route is Thameslink to St Pancras?

I suspect that this engineering work on the 23rd is the problem, as there'll be no Thameslink service between Blackfriars and Sutton all day.

Re-running the Journey Planner query with buses removed from the options tries to send you via Southern to Norwood Junction, and then Thameslink via Finsbury Park, and says it'll take 90-ish minutes.

However, if you leave buses out and select the "I'd rather walk if it makes my journey faster" option, it does generate an itinerary of getting a Southern train to London Bridge and then the Northern line from there, taking about 50 minutes.

 

[infobleep]

I suspect that this engineering work on the 23rd is the problem, as there'll be no Thameslink service between Blackfriars and Sutton all day.

Re-running the Journey Planner query with buses removed from the options tries to send you via Southern to Norwood Junction, and then Thameslink via Finsbury Park, and says it'll take 90-ish minutes.

However, if you leave buses out and select the "I'd rather walk if it makes my journey faster" option, it does generate an itinerary of getting a Southern train to London Bridge and then the Northern line from there, taking about 50 minutes.

That is interesting because I'd already said I'd rather walk if it makes my journey faster.

Surely though it doesn't take that long to walk from Kings Cross St Pancras to London Kings Cross.

 

[XAM2175]

That is interesting because I'd already said I'd rather walk if it makes my journey faster.

Surely though it doesn't take that long to walk from Kings Cross St Pancras to London Kings Cross.

I said that you needed to exclude buses as well as select the prefer-walking-if-faster option. I don't know why it's behaving this way though, since the via-London-Bridge route is timetabled as taking 8 or 9 minutes less than going via Brixton.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That is interesting because I'd already said I'd rather walk if it makes my journey faster.

Surely though it doesn't take that long to walk from Kings Cross St Pancras to London Kings Cross.

The 50 minutes is the time from Tulse Hill to King's Cross via London Bridge and then the Northern Line, not the walk from St Pancras to King's Cross which is indeed only a couple of minutes.

I suspect that this engineering work on the 23rd is the problem, as there'll be no Thameslink service between Blackfriars and Sutton all day.

Using the morning times the OP put, the Northern Line is the only option from London Bridge as the Thameslink core doesn't seem to open until about 09.30 - about an hour after the times specified.

If he was only giving the time as an example, then yes of course the easiest way will be Tulse Hill - London Bridge - Thameslink to St Pancras.

 

[infobleep]

I said that you needed to exclude buses as well as select the prefer-walking-if-faster option. I don't know why it's behaving this way though, since the via-London-Bridge route is timetabled as taking 8 or 9 minutes less than going via Brixton.

I know you said did that. I was explaining what I did, which in my opinion should also produce the itinerary you suggested but doesn't

If I'm happy to walk where it is faster then that is what they should take into account.

 

[infobleep]

The 50 minutes is the time from Tulse Hill to King's Cross via London Bridge and then the Northern Line, not the walk from St Pancras to King's Cross which is indeed only a couple of minutes.

I mean the time to walk from Kings Cross St Pancras to London Kings Cross and not that I thought it didn't take 50 minutes to get between those two stations.

I don't actually know what the time between them is but surely it can't be as long as going via Finsbury Park is my point.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I mean the time to walk from Kings Cross St Pancras to London Kings Cross and not that I thought it didn't take 50 minutes to get between those two stations.

I don't actually know what the time between them is but surely it can't be as long as going via Finsbury Park is my point.

You're quite correct - it's not; it's about two minutes from the Thameslink station to King's Cross itself.

 

[yorkie]

I mean the time to walk from Kings Cross St Pancras to London Kings Cross and not that I thought it didn't take 50 minutes to get between those two stations.

The time to transition between LU & NR stations is pretty much instantaneous; they are the same complex but on different levels.

If you are using Advance tickets, what really matters is that the minimum interchange time from London Bridge to King's Cross is 51 minutes; if you use a National Rail accredited booking site, this will be taken into account automatically.

If you wish to avoid potential hassle in the event of missed connections (and trains being retimed between the dates of booking & travel), it is worth considering booking this as a through journey, however you can alternatively use Oyster/Contactless to get to King's Cross, which will probably be cheaper, but it is your responsibility to check that the itinerary is a valid one, and it can be more challenging to argue your case in the event of a dispute.

 

[yorkie]

Wouldn't the 08.14 to London Bridge ( arrives 08.32 ) then the Northern Line be quicker and easier?

Which, if booked as a through journey from Tulse Hill, through the forum's ticketing site, would get the OP to York at 11:32 for a total price of £48.30 (assuming no Railcard discount), which is actually less than LNER want just from King's Cross.

 

[infobleep]

The time to transition between LU & NR stations is pretty much instantaneous; they are the same complex but on different levels.

If you are using Advance tickets, what really matters is that the minimum interchange time from London Bridge to King's Cross is 51 minutes; if you use a National Rail accredited booking site, this will be taken into account automatically.

If you wish to avoid potential hassle in the event of missed connections (and trains being retimed between the dates of booking & travel), it is worth considering booking this as a through journey, however you can alternatively use Oyster/Contactless to get to King's Cross, which will probably be cheaper, but it is your responsibility to check that the itinerary is a valid one, and it can be more challenging to argue your case in the event of a dispute.

I'm traveling with Grand Central and I just booked that ticket on its own, as I wasn't sure if I was traveling from within Greater London or Guildford.

As it turns out I'm traveling from within Greater London. So I was just going to use Oyster.

My Grand Central ticket cost £29 50 and I either used the forum ticketing site to book it or TrainSplit. I try to remember to use the forums site though.

 

[yorkie]

The 08:39 from Tulse Hill is a valid connection into the 09:49 Grand Central.

However, given the infrequency of GC trains, and the lack of co-operation between the relevant train companies when disruption occurs, taking the 08:14 may be a wise move. There are plenty of suitable opportunities to spend time at King's Cross.

 

[Busaholic]

I can't see why a bus from Tulse Hill to Brixton on one of a choice of three routes, the 2 being the most frequent. and a straightforward Victoria Line trip from there to Kings Cross wouldn't be the simplest and most obvious, especially on a Saturday morning at that time when road traffic should be no problem. You can take the boy out of South London but you can't take South London out of the boy!

P.S. All three bus routes go from the same stop. just take which comes along first. It should have Countdown too, if working.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I can't see why a bus from Tulse Hill to Brixton on one of a choice of three routes, the 2 being the most frequent. and a straightforward Victoria Line trip from there to Kings Cross wouldn't be the simplest and most obvious, especially on a Saturday morning at that time when road traffic should be no problem. You can take the boy out of South London but you can't take South London out of the boy!

P.S. All three bus routes go from the same stop. just take which comes along first. It should have Countdown too, if working.

23rd July is a Sunday.

What are the buses like for the OP on a Sunday morning?

 

[Busaholic]

23rd July is a Sunday.

What are the buses like for the OP on a Sunday morning?

Being London, almost identical intervals, and probably a better chance of running to time. Tulse Hill to Brixton is probably one of the most reliable corridors for bus travel left in London.

 

[infobleep]

Being London, almost identical intervals, and probably a better chance of running to time. Tulse Hill to Brixton is probably one of the most reliable corridors for bus travel left in London.

My friend suggested the bus too. I was just surprised that TfL suggest going to Finsbury Park.

I guess I'm asking a question people can't answer because they don't run the TfL Journey Planners. Those that do are probably either not on this forum or it wouldn't be a wise move for them, job-wise, to comment. Equally, they might not have seen this post.

I am a cartographer so getting different journey planner routes and figuring out why fascinate me.

 

[Busaholic]

My friend suggested the bus too. I was just surprised that TfL suggest going to Finsbury Park.

I guess I'm asking a question people can't answer because they don't run the TfL Journey Planners. Those that do are probably either not on this forum or it wouldn't be a wise move for them, job-wise, to comment. Equally, they might not have seen this post.

I am a cartographer so getting different journey planner routes and figuring out why fascinate me.

You could easily do the whole route by bus, with one change at Brixton so only £1.75 Oyster or contactless card payment with Hoppa dispensation allowing you to catch a 45 bus from outside Brixton Station to its Kings Cross terminus in York Way right next to the eastern brick wall of that station at no extra charge!

Suggesting you travel via Finsbury Park is like suggesting a transfer from Manchester Piccadilly to Victoria via Stockport.

 

[James H]

The 45 no longer runs north of Elephant & Castle

 

[infobleep]

You could easily do the whole route by bus, with one change at Brixton so only £1.75 Oyster or contactless card payment with Hoppa dispensation allowing you to catch a 45 bus from outside Brixton Station to its Kings Cross terminus in York Way right next to the eastern brick wall of that station at no extra charge!

Suggesting you travel via Finsbury Park is like suggesting a transfer from Manchester Piccadilly to Victoria via Stockport.

Interestingly enough the bus-only option is between 54-57 minutes so still faster than via Finsbury Park.

432 -> 133 -> 63.

There is also a 68 to Euston and then a 205 to King's Cross although is be happy to walk if only they weren't so anti-pedestrian in their journey planner.

They aren't alone in this respect, although I did state the fastest journey and I guess getting another bus is faster than walking.

 

[Hadders]

TfL's journey planner isn't the best and still contains lots of features that were introduced during covid to try get people to use less busy routes. I also suspect it priorotises TfL services over National Rail.

At one time it was suggestingthat the fastest way to travel from Kings Cross to Vauxhall was to get the Victoria Line to Pimlico and walk!

We could do with a FastJP style planner for TfL services...

 

[infobleep]

TfL's journey planner isn't the best and still contains lots of features that were introduced during covid to try to get people to use less busy routes. I also suspect it priorities TfL services over National Rail.

At one time it was suggestingthat the fastest way to travel from Kings Cross to Vauxhall was to get the Victoria Line to Pimlico and walk!

We could do with a FastJP style planner for TfL services...

I wasn't aware they had made changes for covid.

Given they were still keeping one bus stop closed in Kingston, due to covid, doesn't surprise me they have such features in their journey planner.

The bus stop in question was the one on Brook Street next to some building works. It has since reopened.

A FastJP-style planner would be very good but I suspect they can't justify spending money to make such an improvement.

 

[lkpridgeon]

A FastJP-style planner would be very good but I suspect they can't justify spending money to make such an improvement.

We're working on some TfL & bus related stuff so it isn't completely out of the question

 

[infobleep]

We're working on some TfL & bus related stuff so it isn't completely out of the question

That would be so cool.