TVMs - buying tickets from other locations

[sheff1]

Another thread has prompted me to ask whether any ticket vending machines in the UK allow you to purchase tickets from a station other than the one at which the TVM is located? If not (and I have never seen any), why not ?

Having been in Germany for the last few days I noticed that it was possible to buy a ticket from any station at the TVMs, and for dates in the future as well. (As an aside, you can also print out your itinerary with details of arrival and departure platforms at all points where a train change was needed.) Even at busy stations such as Frankurt there did not seem to be queues of people building up while someone was booking five Hamburg - Berlin returns for the next few weeks.

As the TVMs at UK stations are presumably linked to the same fares database as the internet booking engines, I would have thought it was technically possible to allow 'other location' and advance bookings, so there must be other reasons why this facility is not available.

 

[142094]

None of the TVMs I've seen allow the purchase of tickets from other stations and advance tickets - so that is nearly all of the ECML and the north east. I don't know why but I guess that they are not linked to the booking database, as you can't make reservations. Someone else will know.

 

[LondonLarry]

I don't think any TVM is linked to the timetable database or NRS and I doubt any one TOC would want to take on the cost of developing it.

 

[fairlie]

A few years ago, the ones in Bristol Temple Meads used to allow you to purchase tickets for the next day, but I've not seen any since which do. There's presumably some basic link to the booking database to allow the collection of tickets already bought online.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't think any TVM is linked to the timetable database or NRS and I doubt any one TOC would want to take on the cost of developing it.

They could do with some sort of Umbrella Organisation or "Association" that could sort things like this out

 

[LondonLarry]

They could do with some sort of Umbrella Organisation or "Association" that could sort things like this out

As DB is still state owned, I think there's a bit more of an impetous to make their TVMs more functional.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A few years ago, the ones in Bristol Temple Meads used to allow you to purchase tickets for the next day, but I've not seen any since which do. There's presumably some basic link to the booking database to allow the collection of tickets already bought online.

All SWT TVMs allow you to buy tickets for travel the following day. It's available from 1500 and only offers Anytime fares

 

[button_boxer]

A few years ago, the ones in Bristol Temple Meads used to allow you to purchase tickets for the next day, but I've not seen any since which do. There's presumably some basic link to the booking database to allow the collection of tickets already bought online.

The ones at Derby allow you to buy "tickets for tomorrow" from around mid-afternoon, but only ones starting from Derby (and no reservations) and only anytime and anytime day as far as I can tell (at least they wouldn't let me buy an off-peak day return for the following day).

Something else I've noticed about those machines - if (as I usually do) I go to the machine after 9:00 am the option on the front screen for a ticket to Sheffield is the off-peak day return at £8.50. However, before 9:00 it offers the anytime return at £30.something, not the anytime day return at £17.10 - you have to explicitly choose 'other ticket types' to find the anytime day... Is this a deliberate ruse to catch out the unwary or is there some genuine logic to it?

 

[142094]

However, before 9:00 it offers the anytime return at £30.something, not the anytime day return at £17.10 - you have to explicitly choose 'other ticket types' to find the anytime day... Is this a deliberate ruse to catch out the unwary or is there some genuine logic to it?

Probably the cynic in me but I suspect you are 100% correct - lets face it I bet TOCs get £thousands every year by people buying the wrong tickets through no fault of their own. Almost like when you go to a petrol station and instead of getting exactly on £xx.00 it is £xx.01.

 

[LondonLarry]

The ones at Derby allow you to buy "tickets for tomorrow" from around mid-afternoon, but only ones starting from Derby (and no reservations) and only anytime and anytime day as far as I can tell (at least they wouldn't let me buy an off-peak day return for the following day).

Something else I've noticed about those machines - if (as I usually do) I go to the machine after 9:00 am the option on the front screen for a ticket to Sheffield is the off-peak day return at £8.50. However, before 9:00 it offers the anytime return at £30.something, not the anytime day return at £17.10 - you have to explicitly choose 'other ticket types' to find the anytime day... Is this a deliberate ruse to catch out the unwary or is there some genuine logic to it?

Might be an error in the way EMT have set up their TVMs. I think the TVMs can either offer all ticket types at any time of day (e.g. will offer Anytime and Off Peak at 0600) or you have to specify which ticket types are available from which time. (e.g. Anytime tickets until 0859, then Off Peak from 0900)

 

[Capybara]

At Vauxhall (and, I assume, other SWT stations) machines won't allow you to buy an off-peak ticket until the 'peak' period has ended, which is a pain if you want to catch the 09:31 to anywhere.

 

[LondonLarry]

At Vauxhall (and, I assume, other SWT stations) machines won't allow you to buy an off-peak ticket until the 'peak' period has ended, which is a pain if you want to catch the 09:31 to anywhere.

It might be due to the high frequency of trains from the station. At stations with few trains (e.g. half hourly) they should offer Off Peak tickets before 0930

 

[Capybara]

It might be due to the high frequency of trains from the station. At stations with few trains (e.g. half hourly) they should offer Off Peak tickets before 0930

There may be a high frequency of trains from the station, but that does not necessarily mean a high frequency to certain destinations. A passenger arriving in reasonable time for the 9:32 to Staines, for example, will only be offered an anytime ticket until 9:30.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

:roll: Thought that as part of ticket "simplification", off peak tickets were supposedly capable of being purchased at any time before travelling. That doesn't seem to be the case here!

 

[Deerfold]

:roll: Thought that as part of ticket "simplification", off peak tickets were supposedly capable of being purchased at any time before travelling. That doesn't seem to be the case here!

I was told by a ticket issuer just a couple of months ago when I bought a WYPTE day rover ticket (to use as part of a split from S Yorks the next day) that he wouldn't have sold it me if it had been for a weekday - I would have had to go to a station after 0930 - despite the fact that if I'd thought about it before I was actually travelling on the day I bought it I could have bought one from a post office or bus station with no problems.

Particularly annoying as my local station is unstaffed and the version of the ticket I was buying is not available on the train.

 

[Greenback]

Not just annoying - wrong too!

 

[Deerfold]

Not just annoying - wrong too!

It's put me off calling there - I used to buy tickets at Shipley when I had a long (10 mins +!) connection there but I'm more likely to brave the queues at Leeds as they've never refused to sell me a ticket.

 

[Greenback]

Quite right too. This sort of behaviour is only driving people away from ticket offices and stations.

When i worked in the ticket office, I would happily sell any ticket at any time, despite what colleagues said. I did this when someone asked for a cheap day single to London at 0730. They explained that they wer eworking a half day, then rushing to London at 1200 to catch a Eurostar! Seemed reasonable, anything to help save a bit of time!

Mind you, it was stamped 'Validity Advised'!

 

[Matt Taylor]

Part of TOC's agreements with ATOC is that they cannot refuse to sell an off peak ticket in these circumstances, any ticket can be purchased in advance although there are different rules for seasons and rovers (including travelcards).

 

[yorkie]

They are breaking the rules by refusing to sell the ticket.

It clearly states on the National Rail website (run by ATOC, in case anyone isn't sure) that states that Off Peak tickets can be bought at any time for travel off peak.

The people who are driving passengers away from ticket offices and toward ticket machines and internet sales are actually putting their own jobs in danger. I wonder if some of them also threaten to go on strike when TOCs see less and less people using ticket office and reduce opening hours? A minority of ticket office staff that act in this way are enemies of rail travel and are just going to put people off travelling by train. After all, some jumped up argumentative troll doesn't start harrassing them at the petrol pumps refusing to sell petrol in case they drive illegally do they? "Sorry sir but I cannot let you buy this petrol, you might use it to go speeding." Hmm...!

Ticket office staff should stick to their jobs and do them properly and not attempt to act as RPIs. They should adhere to the rules of impartial retailing. They should not refuse to issue tickets in advance, they should not refuse to issue combinations of split ticketing, they should not refuse to issue tickets from other origins, they should not be obstructive toward their customers and they should be helpful!! It's only a minority but that minority are doing the whole industry no favours whatsoever.

 

[sheff1]

.....They should not refuse to issue tickets in advance, they should not refuse to issue combinations of split ticketing, they should not refuse to issue tickets from other origins, they should not be obstructive toward their customers and they should be helpful!! It's only a minority but that minority are doing the whole industry no favours whatsoever.

Going back to my original query, the fact that there is such a minority makes it more annoying that TVMs in this country don't allow you to buy tickets you want either - which appears to be the consensus reply.

 

[mickey]

Going back to my original query, the fact that there is such a minority makes it more annoying that TVMs in this country don't allow you to buy tickets you want either - which appears to be the consensus reply.

None of the UK machines offers this facility. As you identified, all German ones do, and the yellow SNCF machines at almost every French station do too. It's something else at which we very much fall behind.

 

[yorkie]

None of the UK machines offers this facility. As you identified, all German ones do, and the yellow SNCF machines at almost every French station do too. It's something else at which we very much fall behind.

Yep. It's due to ATOC being anti-customer and being given far more rights and responsibilities than they should have. They are a trade association yet are allowed to have powers of a regulator. That's not right.

I suspect in Germany the commercial director of DB would not make a statement saying that there is no economic justification for leisure fares because people were using their income on them instead of going to the theatre or buying CDs. If such a statement was made, I suspect they'd be dealt with appropriately.

 

[CarterUSM]

What do you mean by atoc are a trade union association?

 

[yorkie]

trade association, sorry!

I got it right in the Micklefield-York thread, then read a load of news stories about strikes!

 

[CarterUSM]

It's cool, I thought i'd misread something or was perhaps not party to some secret trade union of train companies. you're absolutely correct in what you say regardless, the machines could be a bit more user friendly in what they allow you to purchase, and at what time. A little flexibility goes a long way.

 

[John @ home]

It's cool, I thought i'd misread something or was perhaps not party to some secret trade union of train companies.

There are strong similarities between a trade union and a trade association. Both exist in order to promote the interests of their members.

 

[CarterUSM]

Yes, of course, and unfortunately, don't I know it.

 

[jon0844]

On the flip side, I did laugh the other day when someone tried to go through the gateline at 9am with an off-peak ticket, and was stopped.

He went to the RPI and said his ticket didn't work, to be told he couldn't travel until after 9.30am - so he got all stroppy and said 'Well why did you sell me this ticket then?' in a really sarcastic tone (obviously speaking for the train company).

The RPI simply said 'because you asked for it!'. That shut him up!

Now, this does prove the point; the ticket seller sells the tickets s/he is asked for (and clearly this guy must have asked for an off-peak ticket, or said he was travelling at 9.30am) and the RPI enforced the restrictions.

That's surely how it should be.

Had the gates been open, he would have been caught out on the train (perhaps) or the destination. Or he might have been lucky, but that would then be down to the TOC for not bothering to enforce things.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, the seller should inform the customer of restrictions but not try to enforce them...

but do you know where the off peak ticket was from or to?

A Hatfield to Bristol Off Peak for example would be valid at any time between Hatfield and London.

 

[jon0844]

No, but I suspect that it was a ticket to London. Good point though.

Now, if he was taking the 0927 to Moorgate, he could actually travel before 0930 too - but if you opted to change at Finsbury Park to (more likely) go to King's Cross, or take the tube from there, you might as well wait for the 0943 semi-fast - which is also declassified for first class (Ssshh!). A 313 all station train, or a 317/321/365 where you can sit in first class and go just two stops? Hmmm!

If he had asked for an off-peak ticket, knowing the restrictions and knowing it was valid, he would surely have pointed this out to the gateline staff.

They sometimes ask if you're going to take the slow train, but seem to automatically assume that anyone with a Travelcard is going to King's Cross. TBH, they probably are - the slow trains are usually fairly empty and anyone that does get on usually stays on beyond Finsbury Park - hence short-formed trains, or one following a cancelled service, getting crush loaded before FPK - as nobody gets off!