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Two trackworkers killed near Port Talbot in South Wales (03/07/19)

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edwin_m

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Ultimately though the fact that RAIB note that they've never had to investigate any similar incidents on DLR or TfL infrastructure because they keep people and trains apart should be a challenge to NR as to why they can't do the same. Granted both run intensive services so limited opportunities for line blockages and of course the tunnel/tube are inaccessible with trains running. However, they operate services much later and earlier than much of the mainline network so have even more limited access opportunities but manage to maintain the network.
The Tube and DLR are different, as on at least five nights per week they have a period of 4hr or so with no trains at all, other than those supporting engineering work. Even if a Network Rail route only has a couple of trains per hour, that's enough to prevent a line block being taken that's long enough to do very much.
 
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BrianW

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Well, that ones pretty easy to answer. To progress beyond the lowest operative grades and pay rates COSS is, not unreasonably, a prerequisite. What is the point of leading the work of others if you need somebody else there to take charge of worker safety. In practice you can't work alone without holding COSS either (most people are qualified as Individual Working Alone by virtue of holding COSS). I would think a large proportion of PTS holders will have COSS.
Thank you TSG; that's helpful.
One of the issues i encountered especially on weekend blocks is that they are invariably for project work and lead by contractors who are risk adverse and don't want the responsibility for anyone else especially as the finger will get pointed at them when it overruns or there incidents or some residual issue that reveals itself in traffic. NR need to realise access is the most precious commodity and take responsibility for planning the works within the possession to ensure maximum utilsation. The Schedule 4 mechanism was designed to incentivise this and maybe in a privatised world it might have worked but in the current world its just built into NRs budget for a control period to pay the TOCs off.
Coordination of any kind is difficult. Something along these lines has been attempted regarding road works- sewers, electrics, gas, IT ...charging for 'lane rental' etc. It's hard to estimate durations, frequencies accurately hence tendencies to overestimate in order to finish on time or early and avoid overruns with the consequential inconveniences, blame attribution, damage to reputations and working relationships, and 'fines'. So no easy 'answer'.

A 'big picture' review sounds like a good idea, building on the various pilots recognised by the RAIB in the Port Talbot report. It will take time. It will not work without listening and for some serious changes of heart. Lives are at stake.
The Tube and DLR are different, as on at least five nights per week they have a period of 4hr or so with no trains at all, other than those supporting engineering work. Even if a Network Rail route only has a couple of trains per hour, that's enough to prevent a line block being taken that's long enough to do very much.
Why not build in 4 hour periods to timetables then? Might this time of reduced demand be a time to at least consider a 'reset' re safety culture?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The Tube and DLR are different, as on at least five nights per week they have a period of 4hr or so with no trains at all, other than those supporting engineering work. Even if a Network Rail route only has a couple of trains per hour, that's enough to prevent a line block being taken that's long enough to do very much.
Granted but big swathes of the network carry no commercial freight and can support 4-6hr windows every night.
 

GuyGibsonVC

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There is a lot of silo working at Network Rail. The PWAY will plan in isolation, the Off Track will plan in isolation etc. Now, there is many variables to consider such as standards, rosters, competence etc, but it needs to improve as there are massive inefficiencies.

For example, last week I know of a section that was to PICOP and provide Possession Support to a possession that had several worksites in it. The section then decided that they were going to do some work somewhere else under line blockages and said they couldn't man the possession. At such short notice, this resulted work being cancelled, machines being unused, yet paid for, and contractors spending the night in hotels with their feet up. A waste of time and money. Was anything said? No.

They way the railway plans and delivers work will be a key driver in improving safety.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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There is a lot of silo working at Network Rail. The PWAY will plan in isolation, the Off Track will plan in isolation etc. Now, there is many variables to consider such as standards, rosters, competence etc, but it needs to improve as there are massive inefficiencies.

For example, last week I know of a section that was to PICOP and provide Possession Support to a possession that had several worksites in it. The section then decided that they were going to do some work somewhere else under line blockages and said they couldn't man the possession. At such short notice, this resulted work being cancelled, machines being unused, yet paid for, and contractors spending the night in hotels with their feet up. A waste of time and money. Was anything said? No.

They way the railway plans and delivers work will be a key driver in improving safety.
Yeah seen this happen a few times but generally infrequently although it did wind me up when we had a tamper on hire plus plant and contractors and often those cancelling the possession were NR mtce who had been diverted for operational reasons but our project had to pick up the bill. The irony was we were doing renewal work for there patch but they weren't responsible for our costs so had no incentive to behave differently and ultimately wasn't the fault of the guys on the ground.
 

edwin_m

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Why not build in 4 hour periods to timetables then? Might this time of reduced demand be a time to at least consider a 'reset' re safety culture?
Granted but big swathes of the network carry no commercial freight and can support 4-6hr windows every night.
Those lines that aren't used at night probably already have the relevant periods designated in the Engineering Access Statement (Rules of the Route as was). But the busiest routes, that also need the most attention, are most likely to be 24/7 except for Saturday nights or some other arrangement for infrequent access. The report mentions NR's efforts to reduce the need for track access, such as automated inspection and junction lighting that allows manual inspection at night. But there are probably still some jobs that need daylight (or much longer access to set up and dismantle lighting) and night work carries its own risks. Productivity is worse if people and plant can only work for a few hours each night, though the same applies if it can only work in the day for short periods when line blocks are available. And many of the staff would probably not want to work permanent night shifts.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Those lines that aren't used at night probably already have the relevant periods designated in the Engineering Access Statement (Rules of the Route as was). But the busiest routes, that also need the most attention, are most likely to be 24/7 except for Saturday nights or some other arrangement for infrequent access. The report mentions NR's efforts to reduce the need for track access, such as automated inspection and junction lighting that allows manual inspection at night. But there are probably still some jobs that need daylight (or much longer access to set up and dismantle lighting) and night work carries its own risks. Productivity is worse if people and plant can only work for a few hours each night, though the same applies if it can only work in the day for short periods when line blocks are available. And many of the staff would probably not want to work permanent night shifts.
As I say LUL have to do everything in limited night windows and with productivity even more impaired in the deep tube and tunnel sections yet they manage it. OK line speed isn't as high but a derailment in a tunnel is arguable far worse than out on open lines anyhow so on balance they are similar risks being managed. They also have several weekend closures every year on each line where they blitz maintenance and works. NR's problem, illuminated in the RAIB report, is they are perpetuating the way the railways has always been run and that involves, albeit much reduced, still allowing workers to mix it with trains. This fundamental principle is never up for challenge and everything from RIMINI to 019 is designed as means to allow that to be perpetuated. Yes it may cost more to move it to nights but there is also a huge overhead of resources to administer 019 along with all the safety roles. Working under possessions at night time and on longer weekend possessions removes much of this overhead and allows for more productive working so on balance probably the same. There is an argument over the additional risk of working in the dark and that can't be ignored and for spot maintenance tasks my experience is there is room for improvement but generally not an issue for project work.

Ultimately if the safety of the workforce is to be addressed then separating people from moving trains is a necessity. Im not advocating a wholesale restriction of no access but certainly routine tasks that involve being in the four foot need to be shifted to possession working.
 

Elecman

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Well, that ones pretty easy to answer. To progress beyond the lowest operative grades and pay rates COSS is, not unreasonably, a prerequisite. What is the point of leading the work of others if you need somebody else there to take charge of worker safety. In practice you can't work alone without holding COSS either (most people are qualified as Individual Working Alone by virtue of holding COSS). I would think a large proportion of PTS holders will have COSS.
There is separate course for IWA that is used by those that will never be in charge of a group .
I’m fairly sure that most PTS dont actually hold COSS
 

Nicholas Lewis

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There is separate course for IWA that is used by those that will never be in charge of a group .
I’m fairly sure that most PTS dont actually hold COSS
Correct most PTS wont hold COSS but in NR P.Way mtce prevalence will be higher than in labour only supplier.
 

TSG

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There is separate course for IWA that is used by those that will never be in charge of a group .
I’m fairly sure that most PTS dont actually hold COSS
To clarify I did mean maintenance/renewals workers rather than all PTS holders including drivers/guards/ops etc. In that context, yes, there is a course for IWA but, in practice, who in maintenance/renewals only ever works alone? You need to have almost all the same knowledge as a COSS so why would a manager send anybody on IWA?
 
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