Tyne and Wear Metro Expansion

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by dmel, 1 Sep 2019.

  1. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

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    It was 78. Now it’s 74. One of the ones they cancelled was always a fresh air carrier.
     
  2. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Thanks. Some of the peak extras (well, most of the Regent Centre ones!) are tbf. It's the Monkseatons that need expanding.
     
  3. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

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    I agree, hopefully in the future they can run more Monkseaton peak trains with less Regent Centres.

    It would also be nice to get one or two extra diagrams to Wallsend or North Shields, there really should be more than 4 trains an hour over the peak there. Benefit of Wallsend is that one train could provide 2 extra services in the peak hour, one at around 1710 and then one at 1750 which could go to Longbenton and back to the depot.
     
    Last edited: 13 Sep 2019
  4. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    I suppose the question is where you turn them now North Shields platform 3 has gone (I still think this was a short-sighted mistake). It's a bit of a faff using the crossover at Wallsend, also the extra would be useful beyond Wallsend to at least North Shields.

    Before the timetable change a couple of the 4pm-ish Monkseaton extras went all the way to St James to be an extra back as far as Longbenton. That'd work.
     
  5. danpick

    danpick Member

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    I'm guessing this will include a further reduction in peak extras?
     
  6. MetroCar4058

    MetroCar4058 Member

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    If I'm honest, I don't know. I doubt it though.
     
  7. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    The last change brought some peak extras back into play.

    I'm guessing that- if they have any sense- they'll increase running times during October and November due to leaf fall.
     
  8. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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    Does anyone recall the timings of that test train that went beyond Morpeth with Chris Grayling onboard?
     
  9. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    You seem to be reading a lot into what I said.

    But they're not running a 3-minute frequency (20 tph) through the core. The most I can see in any single hour from Monument is 17tph northbound (17:00-18:00) - and many of those are peak time extras that are subject to cancellation. In fact, the southbound timetable only lists 10tph for the same hour with a 'check displays for extra services' note - so often are the peak time extras cancelled that they can't be relied on.
     
  10. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    They are cancelled, and the timetable was reduced a couple of years ago, because the rolling stock is so unreliable. You don't need more trains, you just need more trains that work. One would hope that, after the usual teething troubles, the new trains will be a lot more reliable.

    The point is that you can't do more than a 3-minute headway.
     
  11. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    The current timetable still shows them northbound. And Metro generally tweet each day to let people know which ones aren't running: e.g. https://twitter.com/My_Metro/status/1172156392880386048.

    ... with the current signalling system. Which won't last forever. And, of course, the network is more than just the Pelaw-South Gosforth core.
     
  12. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    It won't last forever but there is no funding to replace it. So no reason to spend more money (that you don't have) buying extra trains.
     
  13. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    There used to be more peak extras, running through to Monkseaton until about 6.30. They were cut back due to chronic unreliability.

    They used to run 6tph using the current fleet and network but also cut that back to 5tph due to reliability. No reason why you couldn't go back to that without needing more stock.
     
  14. tynesider

    tynesider Member

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    Round about 2005ish (that’s a guess!) there used to be a couple of peak hour Wallsend terminators. Something around 1635 and 1710 from St. James.

    My biggest bugbear with the current timetable is the quarter hour frequency after 1700 from St. James, exacerbated if there’s any whiff of disruption via Four Lane Ends. A couple of short extras between 1700 and 1800 would be welcome. Personally I think taking train off the Pelaw / Regent / Monkseaton circuit and running it St. James - North Shields or Wallsend would be preferable.

    The 1808 Longbenton service irritates me slightly as it would be more welcome prior to 1800.

    Edit: It seems as though from 14th October there’s a 1706 St. James to Longbenton. That’s a start, I guess!
     
    Last edited: 17 Sep 2019
  15. danpick

    danpick Member

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    Between 1700-1800 I believe there was around 8tph St James - South Gosforth in 2008.

    Where did you find the new timetable info?
     
  16. tynesider

    tynesider Member

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    Searched for 14th October on both the Nexus and Traveline North East journey planners.

    Both sources corroborate.
     

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  17. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    But that was before the Sunderland extension wasn't it?

    The original fleet ran a higher-frequency service than today. Reductions in service meant that the under-utilised fleet could accommodate the extension without needing additional units. I'd just like to have that higher-frequency service back.
     
  18. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    If my memory serves me right, originally it was all 6tph, but for a while only 3tph Park Lane-South Hylton. It changed to 5tph at the same time the Airport trains switched to South Hylton from South Shields, with all trains again going to South Hylton.

    6tph daytime frequency with peak extras should be achievable with the new trains. I do worry about what'll happen in North Tyneside though; I'm at Northumberland Park and overcrowding is really bad already, before we even look at the huge new estates planned at Killingworth Moor and Murton.
     
  19. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    It's the one change I never understood, the frequency is far too low along that bit of track at peak time. At the very least it needs to be 6tph during the peak. A 1708 is a start, but too early for anyone who clocks off at 1700. Under the old timetable a Monkseaton short went all the way round and came back as an extra to Longbenton at about 1730 from St James, that would be perfect.

    I don't think shorts will work because it's a faff turning them at Wallsend and the short-sighted removal of the bay at North Shields means it's a faff there too.
     
  20. rower40

    rower40 Member

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    The signalling still exists for turnback in North Shields platform 2 - but getting empty units from South Gosforth to that portion of the route is complex. So the provision of the new satellite depot at Howdon might allow peak-hour extras to run from St James to North Shields and back, as the units would already be nearby.
     
  21. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    True, but it's a faff. If you run a peak extra before the main train it'll get in the way, and if you tun it behind the main train there's not much point as everyone will just pile on the first one.

    I suppose a self-contained diagram runnimg at a 6-minute headway would work, though.
     
  22. GrahamD83

    GrahamD83 Member

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    I would like to see an extension down the Durham Coast from Sunderland, maybe as far as the new Horden station. I live in Seaham where we currently have an hourly 2 car Northern service, which originates from Middlesbrough and often standing room only by the time it gets here.
     
  23. jkkne

    jkkne Member

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    I dread to think how long the journey would be for a commuter trundling into Newcastle in a metro to from Horden. Especially in the proposed new cars with Tube style seating.
     
  24. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    I remember when the Metro first started and, because it hadn't come to Birtley (even though as ratepayers, we contributed towards it), adult Transfare was 45p and child was 5p (a bus journey within Birtley for a child was also 5p), so whenever we used to go to Newcastle, mother always got us a transfare and we got the bus to Gateshead, then the Metro into Newcastle.
    Then we moved over the boundary into Chester le Street and lost track of Transfares, and since fares weren't subsidised by the council like they were in Tyne and Wear, a child single from CLS into Newcastle went up to IIRC 60p
    I didn't know it was still a thing.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jan 2020
  25. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Go have tried their hardest to kill them off, but they still exist- but only for trips that include Metro or ferry.

    But as the cheapest one-zone Transfare single is now £3, chances are most people will buy a DayRover instead.
     

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