As with anything, the driver is in charge of the train and they can withdraw it from service at any time if he/she feels there is a problem which is likely to impact passenger's health and safety. At the end of the day, they would have to justify their reasons whether to keep the train running in service or not.
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Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List
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As with anything, the driver is in charge of the train and they can withdraw it from service at any time if he/she feels there is a problem which is likely to impact passenger's health and safety. At the end of the day, they would have to justify their reasons whether to keep the train running in service or not.
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Starting to feel a bit of wheelslip now!
Had a young driver today who seemed to get spooked by it. Came out the tunnel at gateshead (towards g.stadium), and he went to brake at the usual spot (on the corner) but wheel slip must have unexpectedly kicked in as he slammed the brakes on and we crawled the into the station.
Must be a bit of a heart sink moment when you unexpectedly get it.
Makes me wonder if a station has ever been overshot because of it, could imagine that being an easy thing to happen if the wheel slip starts at the 'wrong' moment.
Also as an aside point, does anybody know what the crack is about this wheel slip training? Like what sort of things are drivers taught to do to combat it?
From my experience of it, it seems to be:
-If it occurs when accelerating, just take your hand off the gas for a few seconds then try again
-If it occurs when braking, brake in loads of little short bursts, and start braking sooner than normal for a few stations thereafter
But that is probably completely wrong!
Had a young driver today who seemed to get spooked by it. Came out the tunnel at gateshead (towards g.stadium), and he went to brake at the usual spot (on the corner) but wheel slip must have unexpectedly kicked in as he slammed the brakes on and we crawled the into the station.
Must be a bit of a heart sink moment when you unexpectedly get it.
Makes me wonder if a station has ever been overshot because of it, could imagine that being an easy thing to happen if the wheel slip starts at the 'wrong' moment.
Also as an aside point, does anybody know what the crack is about this wheel slip training? Like what sort of things are drivers taught to do to combat it?
From my experience of it, it seems to be:
-If it occurs when accelerating, just take your hand off the gas for a few seconds then try again
-If it occurs when braking, brake in loads of little short bursts, and start braking sooner than normal for a few stations thereafter
But that is probably completely wrong!
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MetroCar4058
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Drivers don't learn much about wheelslip until they experience it - I assume training is nothing on the reality depending on the slip. I was told about an incident when a train overshot Walkergate and was so far forward he had to just come to he on to Chillingham.
I've noticed 4082 doesn't have HVAC anymore - are they taking them off some units?
I've noticed 4082 doesn't have HVAC anymore - are they taking them off some units?
Wheelslip happens throughout the year and isn't just caused by leaves on the line. Sometimes light drizzle or grit on rails on level crossings can be just as bad as during the autumn.
Dealing with wheelslip and slide comes with experience and route knowledge. In general, when going for power, using lower notches to get the wheels turning and some momentum up before going for 'full power' is recommended. There is also a switch that can lower the amount of power drawn by the traction motors to help combat wheelslip.
For braking it is early and light. If there is wheel slide, coming off the brake into Off and back into brake can help stop the wheels from locking and causing flats. This is cadence braking. If it is really bad, the magnetic track brake can be used.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The depot have started to remove the HVAC units on top of the cab and block off the hole.
Dealing with wheelslip and slide comes with experience and route knowledge. In general, when going for power, using lower notches to get the wheels turning and some momentum up before going for 'full power' is recommended. There is also a switch that can lower the amount of power drawn by the traction motors to help combat wheelslip.
For braking it is early and light. If there is wheel slide, coming off the brake into Off and back into brake can help stop the wheels from locking and causing flats. This is cadence braking. If it is really bad, the magnetic track brake can be used.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The depot have started to remove the HVAC units on top of the cab and block off the hole.
MetroCar4058
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Why are they removing the HVAC? Is it just to save on parts and maintenance for such a small proportion of the fleet. Don't think the drivers will be too happy unless they bring back the fans!
The grills have recently been fitted back into place on the units which has those boxes and from what I could see inside the drivers cab, the hole on the ceiling which leads to the box is sealed now anyways thus making the box pretty much useless.
Happy too see these removed, they looked an eyesore to say the least.
MetroCar4058
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What grills? I thought the HVAC only worked in the drivers cab? I think having HVAC was a good idea, especially when the drivers fan was removed - which annoyed many drivers.
This morning 4027/34 dropped the magnetic track brake at Regent Centre to avoid a SPAD as it lost traction when breaking. Unfortunately I was standing up and got threw across the unit!
This morning 4027/34 dropped the magnetic track brake at Regent Centre to avoid a SPAD as it lost traction when breaking. Unfortunately I was standing up and got threw across the unit!
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Lm2606
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For whatever reason if a train requires to be jacked up there is minimal room between the top of the HVAC unit and the overhead wires.
The HVAC box is roughly the same height from the overhead as the pantograph is, so no problem there when jacking a train. The main problem when jacking is the location - on the Metro network in tunnels, the pan is almost in the fully lowered position and on several areas of the system the overhead is at a lower height compared to areas such as Regent Centre - Airport and the open crossings.
Overhead height on the Sunderland line is just about consistent throughout.
Raymondzhu416
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Hi all
I was wondering how you all felt about the "Central" announcement who his now played instead of Central Station. I personally believe this inconsistency could potentially confuse tourists, and believe the announcements should either be changed back, or the station name should be changed to "Central" following the refurbishment. I don't think it's good practice to have the announcement different to the station name, however Nexus have no plans to change the announcement, and when I've suggested a possible name change for the station I haven't received a reply. Just wondering what you all think about this?
Many Thanks
Raymond Zhu
I was wondering how you all felt about the "Central" announcement who his now played instead of Central Station. I personally believe this inconsistency could potentially confuse tourists, and believe the announcements should either be changed back, or the station name should be changed to "Central" following the refurbishment. I don't think it's good practice to have the announcement different to the station name, however Nexus have no plans to change the announcement, and when I've suggested a possible name change for the station I haven't received a reply. Just wondering what you all think about this?
Many Thanks
Raymond Zhu
MetroCar4058
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To be honest, they should have gone with the cheapest option when recording the sound pack and kept 'Central Station.' I do not know if they have made the change to fit with the Central Gateway project. It is unlikely the will change the sound pack due to the extra incurred cost. Changing all the signage, both on trains, at stations etc will cost allot of money and thus is unlikely to happen. The furthest they will go is just pasting 'Central' on the walls of the 'refurbished' station.
The new on train announcements also cause another confusion, one I often raise. 'Change here for trains to St James via Whitley Bay from platform 2.' Despite this change being made many months ago, all station aonnouncements still say 'The Coast' (which is better) but this could be confusing to tourists as you say. I've had to help several people both at Monument, or should have been at Monument for trains to The Coast via Wallsend, and at South Gosforth. Those at Monument have been confused by the new and less detailed announcements for Newcastle City Centre - people don't like change.
I must admit, I don't mind the new bloke now, but catching 4019 is still a delight after a hard day!
Just a quick shift to Low Rail Adhesion - the stats show 76% which is very good indeed. Traction hasn't been as bad as normal although there are still many bad occurrences especially before evening peak. I suppose the effectiveness of the treatment train is debatable for some but I would say it has made a slight, but positive improvement.
Do they run the treatment train all day?
The new on train announcements also cause another confusion, one I often raise. 'Change here for trains to St James via Whitley Bay from platform 2.' Despite this change being made many months ago, all station aonnouncements still say 'The Coast' (which is better) but this could be confusing to tourists as you say. I've had to help several people both at Monument, or should have been at Monument for trains to The Coast via Wallsend, and at South Gosforth. Those at Monument have been confused by the new and less detailed announcements for Newcastle City Centre - people don't like change.
I must admit, I don't mind the new bloke now, but catching 4019 is still a delight after a hard day!
Just a quick shift to Low Rail Adhesion - the stats show 76% which is very good indeed. Traction hasn't been as bad as normal although there are still many bad occurrences especially before evening peak. I suppose the effectiveness of the treatment train is debatable for some but I would say it has made a slight, but positive improvement.
Do they run the treatment train all day?
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RHTT runs once in the morning before service and once in the afternoon. In general it works from the depot to Chillingham Road and back, although sometimes is extended to old Jesmond station. It has been down the South Shields line once recently.
Seeing as I was back in the region for the weekend I thought I had a little trip on the metro, turned out to be quite interesting.
4083 is now sat on one of the outside stabling roads but looks like the pantograph is still down although its hard too see too clearly though.
4036 + 4039 was the train involved which failed at Haymarket this evening, driver tried quite a good number of times to get it moving but it would refuse to move so he tried to move it from the rear carriage and again it refused to move and about 20-25 mins later, the following Pelaw train(4013/57) came and rescued it and service was resumed afterwards.
Couple of questions come to mind, if 4001/40 was the train behind, would it of been able to rescue the failed train? And also, the driver did not totally reset the train by lowering the pantograph down and then back up again, so would that not make any difference when a train refuses to move?
Its actually the first time I seen a proper train failure which shows they are quite rare(reletively speaking) despite people stating otherwise.
4083 is now sat on one of the outside stabling roads but looks like the pantograph is still down although its hard too see too clearly though.
4036 + 4039 was the train involved which failed at Haymarket this evening, driver tried quite a good number of times to get it moving but it would refuse to move so he tried to move it from the rear carriage and again it refused to move and about 20-25 mins later, the following Pelaw train(4013/57) came and rescued it and service was resumed afterwards.
Couple of questions come to mind, if 4001/40 was the train behind, would it of been able to rescue the failed train? And also, the driver did not totally reset the train by lowering the pantograph down and then back up again, so would that not make any difference when a train refuses to move?
Its actually the first time I seen a proper train failure which shows they are quite rare(reletively speaking) despite people stating otherwise.
A bit worried about the number of problems with trains recently as these are the refurbs so it likely won't get any better.
On a more positive note, something I have seen twice in the last 1-2 weeks, and which benefitted this morning, is pelaw starters not stopping at pelaw if a coast or airport train is stopped at the red light directly outside pelaw waiting for it. Not sure if this is an actual thing or if it is just drivers using their common sense for the benefit of the passengers, but with it avoiding the coast/airport trains chasing reds all the way to and through the city centre and thus becoming delayed, long may it continue.
Also thank you for the info regarding wheel slip, 142094
On a more positive note, something I have seen twice in the last 1-2 weeks, and which benefitted this morning, is pelaw starters not stopping at pelaw if a coast or airport train is stopped at the red light directly outside pelaw waiting for it. Not sure if this is an actual thing or if it is just drivers using their common sense for the benefit of the passengers, but with it avoiding the coast/airport trains chasing reds all the way to and through the city centre and thus becoming delayed, long may it continue.
Also thank you for the info regarding wheel slip, 142094
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An unrefurbished train can couple with a refurbished set but there are a few different things that have to be carried out before they can move.
Depending what the fault is, dropping the pans and raising them can clear the fault but not always the case. For some faults the pan has to be dropped as a precaution (e.g. traction motor flashover, linebraker fault).
Scott I've noticed this happening recently too. Only control can authorise a driver to skip a station, but if it works then it is a good thing for the overall picture. However stations like Pelaw are normally busy in the peak so running a Regent Centre train through it to stop first at Heworth means the Airport train behind is rammed even more.
Depending what the fault is, dropping the pans and raising them can clear the fault but not always the case. For some faults the pan has to be dropped as a precaution (e.g. traction motor flashover, linebraker fault).
Scott I've noticed this happening recently too. Only control can authorise a driver to skip a station, but if it works then it is a good thing for the overall picture. However stations like Pelaw are normally busy in the peak so running a Regent Centre train through it to stop first at Heworth means the Airport train behind is rammed even more.
Glad somebody else has noticed it so that it isn't just me going crazy. I can see the merit of it still stopping if pelaw is packed, however if it isn't (such as the tail end of the rush hour) there is definitely merit in allowing it, as you say.
Bit shuck up. Metro could of had a head on collision were it not for the emergency brakes being good and I was near the front
Departed platform 2 Jarrow as normal, then shortly after the emergency brakes slam on almost sending a woman who was standing up flying. Then not long after a South Shields train comes flying across the points not far from us. I know in reality it was probably like 50 meters away but it doesn't feel like that when you see something flying straight towards you, especially in the knowledge that if the emergency brakes hadn't been working well i could have been a goner.
Wonder if this was either a signal wrongly showing green or a SPAD.
I am inclined to think the former as the train was at some speed and past the platform when the brakes came on. Would have thought if it was a SPAD we would have barely left the station. Unless the signal at Jarrow platform 2 is well beyond the platform rather than directly at the end of it like most signals are.
I can see the merit of it still stopping if pelaw is packed, however if it isn't (such as the tail end of the rush hour) there is definitely merit in allowing it, as you say. Bit shuck up. Metro could of had a head on collision were it not for the emergency brakes being good and I was near the front
Departed platform 2 Jarrow as normal, then shortly after the emergency brakes slam on almost sending a woman who was standing up flying. Then not long after a South Shields train comes flying across the points not far from us. I know in reality it was probably like 50 meters away but it doesn't feel like that when you see something flying straight towards you, especially in the knowledge that if the emergency brakes hadn't been working well i could have been a goner. Wonder if this was either a signal wrongly showing green or a SPAD.
I am inclined to think the former as the train was at some speed and past the platform when the brakes came on. Would have thought if it was a SPAD we would have barely left the station. Unless the signal at Jarrow platform 2 is well beyond the platform rather than directly at the end of it like most signals are.
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MetroCar4058
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Glad somebody else has noticed it so that it isn't just me going crazy.
Bit shuck up. Metro could of had a head on collision were it not for the emergency brakes being good and I was near the front
Wonder if this was either a signal wrongly showing green or a SPAD.
I am inclined to think the former as the train was at some speed and past the platform when the brakes came on. Would have thought if it was a SPAD we would have barely left the station. Unless the signal at Jarrow platform 2 is well beyond the platform rather than directly at the end of it like most signals are.
I can't remember how the signalling works at Jarrow. However I would highly doubt that it was a signalling fault as this would have closed the line and caused major delays while engineers were sent out to test the system. Also as that signal is linked to points it would be very worrying and dangerous if the signal had have cleared with the points not aligned for trains towards The Coast via Newcastle - Did the train pass the signal? I'm sure someone else will probably be more in the know about this
Also does anyone know the reason why St James has been unexpectedly closed today?
I can't remember how the signalling works at Jarrow. However I would highly doubt that it was a signalling fault as this would have closed the line and caused major delays while engineers were sent out to test the system. Also as that signal is linked to points it would be very worrying and dangerous if the signal had have cleared with the points not aligned for trains towards The Coast via Newcastle - Did the train pass the signal? I'm sure someone else will probably be more in the know about this
Also does anyone know the reason why St James has been unexpectedly closed today?
Yep we definitely passed the signal as I checked and there were no more signals between where we stopped and the points.
Aren't drivers not allowed to carry on that day if they have a SPAD in case they are unwell or something?
Also I heard on the tannoy at monument that St James was closed for maintenance work.
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The signal when departing Jarrow platform 2 is beyond the platform end, I'm guessing approximately 15 metres maybe. So the train could pick up a little bit of speed.
If there was a train approaching platform 1 then the signal wouldn't have been showing a green. Points onto the single line section are well beyond the signal though so no chance of a head on collision.
Emergency brake applications when your not expecting one can give drivers a fright, let alone passengers. Unfortunately it does stop a train with some force and is unfortunate for those standing.
As for a driver being able to carry on. Depends on a few things. Firstly they will be asked if they are okay to continue, up to them, if not then in this instance I imagine they'd be asked to take train back onto platform for benefit of passengers and then wait to be relieved. If the driver is high on the at risk register they may not be allowed to continue.
Glad somebody else has noticed it so that it isn't just me going crazy.
Bit shuck up. Metro could of had a head on collision were it not for the emergency brakes being good and I was near the front
Wonder if this was either a signal wrongly showing green or a SPAD.
I am inclined to think the former as the train was at some speed and past the platform when the brakes came on. Would have thought if it was a SPAD we would have barely left the station. Unless the signal at Jarrow platform 2 is well beyond the platform rather than directly at the end of it like most signals are.
Although it would be wrong to speculate too much but if the train passed the signal and assuming it was a red signal then I wonder if the emergency brakes were triggered by the track magnet rather than the driver. Of course, if the signal was on red, then there be no chance of a collision due to the track magnet bringing the train to a stop anyways.
With the signal being a little bit of a distance away from the platform, and assuming it was showing a red signal(it should be showing a red with the Shields train coming in from the other way). Did the driver explain why the train came to a sudden halt?
Sounds a bizzare incident and one we will probably never know what fully happen unfortunately.
Regarding St James' essential maintenance work, I would presume it be the points leading up to the platforms that might be playing up, I think I have read in the past those points are in need of replacing and if they don't get replaced in the future, then St James station will have to close.
ModernRailways
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The roof at St James has apparently got something wrong with it - I've been told its came down but I can't say whether it's fact or not.
Also, a little observation on the new PA boards. I've noticed they've been updated again, and it would appear if some of them aren't working then they scroll along saying 'Visit nexus.org.uk for travel information' which I must say is a nice little touch instead of leaving them blank.
Also, a little observation on the new PA boards. I've noticed they've been updated again, and it would appear if some of them aren't working then they scroll along saying 'Visit nexus.org.uk for travel information' which I must say is a nice little touch instead of leaving them blank.
MetroCar4058
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Is that the station boards or the ones on the units?
Also, does anyone know if the RHTT is out of service? 'A spokesman for Nexus said the first train of the day - a rail head treatment train used to clean the track of leaves before the first passenger train - struck the tree.' Sourced from the Chronicle. This was following the line closure yesterday.
Also, does anyone know if the RHTT is out of service? 'A spokesman for Nexus said the first train of the day - a rail head treatment train used to clean the track of leaves before the first passenger train - struck the tree.' Sourced from the Chronicle. This was following the line closure yesterday.
ModernRailways
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The actual on train units. That's why I was so shocked
Either the Metrocar or Battery Loco have minor damage, but I imagine the actual RHTT is fine.
Sorry for the slow reply - been busy with uni past week or so.
@Frankfurt sounds like it was a SPAD then, unless the signal was wrongly showing green whereas the track magnet was correctly set as red. And yes it does take you by surprise, they are very forceful.
@Paul, the driver said there had been a "small problem", whereas two ticket inspectors said she had "popped a red" (not sure what that means)
Got two questions (sorry I am very inquisitive):
1) On my metro yesterday the driver of our train (platform 1) swapped with the driver of the train on platform 2 at Simonside - any idea why that would happen? The drivers that took over our train consisted of one driver and two other guys carrying the "driver under instruction" canvas. My theories are:
A) The initial driver on platform 1 was in danger of going over his hours before making it back to South Gosforth, so they swapped to make sure he would make it back in time
B) The driver under instruction struggled a bit with the section between Simonside and South Shields, so they got him to drive that section again
2) People are told to stay off the lines for risk of electrocution. Yet on a platform you are right next to the OHL. Why is the risk of electrocution less on a platform than on the tracks?
@Frankfurt sounds like it was a SPAD then, unless the signal was wrongly showing green whereas the track magnet was correctly set as red. And yes it does take you by surprise, they are very forceful.
@Paul, the driver said there had been a "small problem", whereas two ticket inspectors said she had "popped a red" (not sure what that means)
Got two questions (sorry I am very inquisitive):
1) On my metro yesterday the driver of our train (platform 1) swapped with the driver of the train on platform 2 at Simonside - any idea why that would happen? The drivers that took over our train consisted of one driver and two other guys carrying the "driver under instruction" canvas. My theories are:
A) The initial driver on platform 1 was in danger of going over his hours before making it back to South Gosforth, so they swapped to make sure he would make it back in time
B) The driver under instruction struggled a bit with the section between Simonside and South Shields, so they got him to drive that section again
2) People are told to stay off the lines for risk of electrocution. Yet on a platform you are right next to the OHL. Why is the risk of electrocution less on a platform than on the tracks?
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MetroCar4058
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Tracks do conduct a small amount of electricity through the trains wheels and completing the circuit for the block signals to change.
If trains are running late, control will turn them back short to make up time. For example, if 125 is 12 minutes late, they can turn back the following train 126 at somewhere like Bede. 126 becomes 125 and 125 becomes 126. However this would mean the original driver of 125 having to drive for an extra 12 minutes, which is why at the other end (normally Manors or Byker), the drivers will swap back over so they are due a meal break at their correct booked time.
As for going on the track, mainly it is due to the risk of getting hit by a passing train however the overhead supply cable is near the track and will kill someone if they mess around with it. Of course in areas with the 3rd rail the risk is greater due to it mostly being uncovered. The traction return current that runs through the track for track circuits is only a negligible voltage and won't do any harm to someone touching the track.
Potting a signal or potting a red is an informal term for a SPaD.
As for going on the track, mainly it is due to the risk of getting hit by a passing train however the overhead supply cable is near the track and will kill someone if they mess around with it. Of course in areas with the 3rd rail the risk is greater due to it mostly being uncovered. The traction return current that runs through the track for track circuits is only a negligible voltage and won't do any harm to someone touching the track.
Potting a signal or potting a red is an informal term for a SPaD.
MetroCar4058
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Does anyone have any further information on St James station? Nexus have revised the timetable from the 3rd until the 18th of December for some services to terminate at Monument platform 4.
Platform 1 at St. James is currently out of use due to the escalator renewal work, so only platform 2 can be used by passenger services. On most days during December, some of the trains that would normally return to the depot after working Regent Centre/Monkseaton - Pelaw services are being kept out for the Christmas shoppers. Some of these trains are extended to St. James, and in previous years they would wait in the other platform for the regular service train to depart, then follow it around the Coast. However, with only one platform being in use, the extra train will terminate at Monument platform 4, shunt out of service to St. James platform 1, out of service to Monument platform 3 then in service around the Coast.
This is the reason why on Sundays trains are often held in the tunnel between Monument platform 4 and St. James. Under normal timetabled running on a Sunday, there will be one train in the platform at St. James and the train behind normally arrives into the opposite platform. The first train then departs for Monument while the second has a 15 minute wait at St. James. However, with only one platform in use the train terminating at St. James has to wait for the train in front to clear platform 2, which can cause delays.
This is the reason why on Sundays trains are often held in the tunnel between Monument platform 4 and St. James. Under normal timetabled running on a Sunday, there will be one train in the platform at St. James and the train behind normally arrives into the opposite platform. The first train then departs for Monument while the second has a 15 minute wait at St. James. However, with only one platform in use the train terminating at St. James has to wait for the train in front to clear platform 2, which can cause delays.
MetroCar4058
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Thank you! That makes sense, I thought that it was an amendment to the normal service and not extra works.
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