Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[Paul_10]

83 was waiting an artic section change and now looks like it is waiting for a compressor. 02 had problems with a brake circuit breaker tripping, but now also is waiting for a compressor. When car 77 was returned from Wabtec, there was apparently a wiring fault which meant a short circuit and smouldering wires. So all that will have to be replaced.

I was on 01/40 today, running as 129. The problem at the minute is a lack of spare sets so any sets running will be getting maximum use (and therefore more running time = more faults).

I wonder who will have to cough up the money to fix it? Wabtec or DB? I guess that is to be sorted with the contract issues as you alluded too but hopefully it can be sorted soon enough to get it back out on the rails!

Would be ashame if 4083 does not return to service but it sounds like the problems it has does not sound terminal so surely it would be better financially to have a full fleet of metrocars running as getting it back into service means it can be paired with the other unrefurbished metrocar and use it what they intended for which is a spare role in the fleet.

 

[Tramfan]

We also seem to have cars 4045 and 4073 out of service long term - 4045 in particular has been parked up on Road 16 behind 4083 for a couple of months now, and 4073 has recently joined them as well, neither have been used AFAIK for at least 3 or 4 months.

I'd like to see all these units back in service to make the full fleet of 90, as you could then have say 8 cars undergoing routine leaving 4 cars (2 sets) spare during peak times.

Considering 4041 went to Doncaster in June 2010, it's now 5 1/2 years since they had the full 90 available to them

 

[142094]

4045 was an interesting one as it had a traction motor and gearbox which made a particular noise when motoring, which no other car on the system had. I'm just about sure that 4045 has provided a traction motor for another car, to keep that car in service.

 

[MetroCar4058]

It's quite worrying the number of units we have out of service and others that have faults with the A end. Are the maintance teams sorting these at a good pace?

I've noticed a few units have a really bad ride quality and could do with a visit to the wheel lathe.

 

[Paul_10]

It's quite worrying the number of units we have out of service and others that have faults with the A end. Are the maintance teams sorting these at a good pace?

I've noticed a few units have a really bad ride quality and could do with a visit to the wheel lathe.

I don't believe all cars that are B end working means the A end has a fault, it could be simply down to shunting and making life easier really.

That said, is it surprising the A end's have faults? They are getting used about 90% of the time since the FASSI has been installed so with more useage then surely any faults will be more frequent?

 

[142094]

To save money when the cars were sent for refurbishment, only the A ends were modified. Drivers at the time were told that they would not have to drive from B ends. However, as the depot has a lot of cars on long term withdrawl from service, and a backoog of work, if a piece of equipment fails on the A end, it is easier to remarshall the train so the B end is leading instead of fixing the fault on the A end. This may be due to a need to wait for spare parts, but more than likely is the fact that if the service requirement of 78 cars for peak service is not met, DB gets fined.

The latest NECA documents show that in 2016/17 there will be a shed built in South Shields sidings for outstabling and training purposes.

 

[MetroCar4058]

To save money when the cars were sent for refurbishment, only the A ends were modified. Drivers at the time were told that they would not have to drive from B ends. However, as the depot has a lot of cars on long term withdrawl from service, and a backoog of work, if a piece of equipment fails on the A end, it is easier to remarshall the train so the B end is leading instead of fixing the fault on the A end. This may be due to a need to wait for spare parts, but more than likely is the fact that if the service requirement of 78 cars for peak service is not met, DB gets fined.

The latest NECA documents show that in 2016/17 there will be a shed built in South Shields sidings for outstabling and training purposes.

That should help with congestion at SG (if they do stable some there overnight which I assume will be unlikely due to rostering)

NECA did say in the last report that the refurbishment of Heworth would have started by now and that Tyne Dock was to receive a face lift in 2016, if I remember correctly.

Hopefully, DB will be able to clear the backlog soon; how does part sourcing work with Metro? Do they have to recondition many parts or are some still available to buy new on the market?

 

[ModernRailways]

To save money when the cars were sent for refurbishment, only the A ends were modified. Drivers at the time were told that they would not have to drive from B ends. However, as the depot has a lot of cars on long term withdrawl from service, and a backoog of work, if a piece of equipment fails on the A end, it is easier to remarshall the train so the B end is leading instead of fixing the fault on the A end. This may be due to a need to wait for spare parts, but more than likely is the fact that if the service requirement of 78 cars for peak service is not met, DB gets fined.

A lot of services are running B end for this exact reason. Metro don't have any spare units available. The Metrocars are getting on now, and to be fair this isn't Metro's fault, it's jointly Nexus and the previous Government. Metro are getting fined for trains failing/not running at all/other issues because for the most part the trains should be in their final years and we should have new trains starting out. We don't and so the current units are being overworked and overstretched. Their failing to run a full peak timetable because they don't have enough trains. Maybe time for that timetable change that I was told about?

The fact we have 4001 operating still on a full route basis and not just additional services should say everything! We need new trains, refurbishing them has only given them a few extra years and in those few years of harsh service they will fail more often and the service will get worse and worse (we're already starting to see it imo, and I've long defended Metros delays etc. because most of the time they aren't Metros fault and I wasn't often delayed myself).

 

[MetroCar4058]

Standing at Monument today and noticing how ineffective the gateline staff are worries me deeply; 5 lads hopped over the barriers and a ticket officer, standing within 2 meters did nothing but watch. Why did this no contact policy come into force? If I'm honest, it appears to me that the gateline staffing over the requirement is pointless as they cannot do the the job.
I'm not blaming this on gateline staff, but as the lady said, 'we can't do anything unless they cooperate.' these people aren't the sort to cooperate. So why aren't they still pinning people down for £20?

If I am correct, they did in previous years receive training from a police liaison link or something along the lines; has this been disbanded due to DBs cost cutting measures?

 

[S Lowes]

Hi All

Not sure how many of yourselves remember the Tyne & Wear Transport Group from the MSN Groups days?

I was looking at the Freedom Of Information Requests for Nexus and was wanting to know if anyone would know where i stand on reusing the information on a new group and editing it to make it more reader friendly?

Thanks
Scott

 

[hacman]

I have the full archive of notes from the group, as when MSN groups closed and it moved to Multiply, I took over from Tom and attempted to revive it.

Drop me a PM with your email address and I'll dig out what I have.

Jon

 

[S Lowes]

I have the full archive of notes from the group, as when MSN groups closed and it moved to Multiply, I took over from Tom and attempted to revive it.

Drop me a PM with your email address and I'll dig out what I have.

Jon

You have a PM Jon
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Im currently trying to figure out what advertising liverys have been carried on the the Metrocars from new also, can anyone help with ammendments or any missing ones?

4001 Tyne & Wear PTE ( Red Stripe)
4002 Braethans Airways - Tyne & Wear Metro Website
4003
4004
4005
4006
4007
4008 Royal Quays Outlet
4009
4010
4011
4012 Crime Stoppers
4013
4014
4015
4016 Metro Radio - Metro Grey Advertising Advert - Blue Basecoat
4017
4018
4019
4020 Modern Apprentiships
4021
4022
4023 Metro Green
4024
4025
4026 Braethans Airways
4027 DFDS Seaways - North East Electrics 3347 - Dinosaurs at the Hancock Museum - Roman Fort in South Shields
4028
4029
4030
4031
4032 Queens Jubillee
4033 Emirates Airways
4034
4035
4036
4037
4038 Talk To Frank - Thomson Holidays - East Coast Trains
4039 The Journal - Metro FM - Monergy - Revised PTE version 2
4040 Cut Your Co2 - Emirates Airways
4041
4042 Evening Chronicle - Metro Radio
4043
4044 Director Brandling Junction Railway
4045 Newcastle Racecourse - Newcastle Airport 45 Years - Revised PTE version 2 - Metro FM - Metro Grey Advertising Advert
4046
4047
4048 Great North Forest
4049 Kidd Spoor Harper - Orange (black & orange)
4050 Northumbria Police
4051 Newcastle & North Shields Railway - Asda
4052
4053
4054 Metroland
4055 European Union - GNER - Metro Grey Advertising Advert
4056 Woodpecker Cider - Marks & Spencer
4057
4058 Metroland
4059
4060
4061 Connexions
4062
4063 Woodpecker Cider
4064
4065
4066
4067 Alexander Miller Poet
4068 Nice One Sunderland/Bridges Shopping Centre
4069
4070
4071
4072
4073
4074
4075 Tyne & Wear Public Services
4076
4077
4078
4079
4080 Garden Festival - South Shields Market - Tyne & Wear Challenge - White & Red
4081
4082 Metro Green
4083 British Lung Foundation - Emirates Airways
4084 Pop Card - East Coast Trains
4085 Newcastle Gateshead Buzzing - Radio Newcastle
4086 DFDS Seaways - Tesco Extra
4087 Marks & Spencer - Revised PTE - Revised PTE version 2 - South Tyneside - Grey - Millennium
4088
4089
4090


From what i can remember there was 2 sets in M&S Marks and Spencers, 2 sets in Woodpecker Cider, 2 sets in Metroland and 2? in a Monenergy scheme.

Many Thanks
Scott

 

[MetroCar4058]

4084 and I believe 4038 had the East Coast Livery for a little while 4038 was also the first with the new male PA.

 

[S Lowes]

4084 and I believe 4038 had the East Coast Livery for a little while 4038 was also the first with the new male PA.

Many Thanks

Ive added them to the list above

Scott

 

[danpick]

4027 carried the number 3347 on the side in its North East Railway livery.

 

[tez thorn]

Hi All

Not sure how many of yourselves remember the Tyne & Wear Transport Group from the MSN Groups days?

I was looking at the Freedom Of Information Requests for Nexus and was wanting to know if anyone would know where i stand on reusing the information on a new group and editing it to make it more reader friendly?

Thanks
Scott

I remember it very fondly, i was tez492 and i was with it when it moved to Multiply, me and another guy(forgot his name) took it over i think in 2009, however it was short lived as things happened the biggest one was me becoming a dad for the first time, i think we both lost hope and thought members had become disinterested, on the list 4045 was 75 year airport livery not 45 as it opened in 1935 and its anniversary was in 2010(probably just a typing error lol) im not sure but did a unit not carry and advert for the opening of the extention to the airport or was that just another 'bull' rumour, i also remember there being a set of GNER livery metrocars in i think the late 90's early 00's, 4065 was carrying a radio livery up until 2005 when it was stripped and repainted in the 'revised red livery', and 4019 carried a trial variation of the PTE livery in the early days,4023 and 4051 carried a trial version on the green livery but 4023 was stripped of its triangles with the 'M' in the middle in 2008 when i think 4023 was involved in an accident,so up until 2014 4051 was the only green livery with the triangles and 'M' in the middle on its doors left,4016 was the same story only except it was blue, 4050 trialed a red version of this also
hope this helped
regards
Tez

 

[sprinterguy]

...im not sure but did a unit not carry and advert for the opening of the extention to the airport or was that just another 'bull' rumour...

I'm not aware of a special livery for the opening of the Airport extension: Certainly, all photos I've seen of the opening day show Metrocars in the standard TWPTE yellow livery.

...i also remember there being a set of GNER livery metrocars in i think the late 90's early 00's...

There was just one GNER liveried Metrocar, 4055; it lost this livery at the time of the opening of the Sunderland Metro extension in early 2002, for one promoting European Community funding (of the extension? I never worked out what it was in reference to).

4065 was carrying a radio livery up until 2005 when it was stripped and repainted in the 'revised red livery'...

I'm not aware of 4065 having ever carried an advertising livery, however 4085 carried a pink and purple "BBC Radio Newcastle" livery from November 2002 until August 2005, when it received the revised red livery.

...and 4019 carried a trial variation of the PTE livery in the early days...

There were a handful of Metrocars that received a revised TWPTE Metro livery in the early nineties, which featured a thicker light blue stripe in similar fashion to the various Pacer units that had the livery applied, as well as full yellow doors. I'm aware of 4039, 4045 and 4087 having carried this style, but not 4019.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Im currently trying to figure out what advertising liverys have been carried on the the Metrocars from new also, can anyone help with ammendments or any missing ones?

Just seen this - I can add that 4055 carried a Northumbria Police livery during the late nineties (of a different design to the one subsequently carried by 4050). Otherwise everything looks to be present and correct based on the list I have.

4082 is the other Metrocar, alongside 4033, to have had Emirates Airlines livery applied since the recent refurbishment.

 

[Scott M]

I get the feeling morale must be low among drivers at the moment.

Keep hearing comments like "Sorry for the delay. We are stuck at a red signal, I would tell you why but as per usual they haven't let me know" (spoken in a fed up tone of voice)

 

[ModernRailways]

I get the feeling morale must be low among drivers at the moment.

Keep hearing comments like "Sorry for the delay. We are stuck at a red signal, I would tell you why but as per usual they haven't let me know" (spoken in a fed up tone of voice)

The whole morale within Metro is at rock bottom. Is it any surprise though? Service is low, staff aren't communicated with effectively and they have an ageing system and can't do much with it. Management then have Nexus on them, and now councillors all criticising Metro which in turn will make staff feel lower again. My biggest issue of late is the councillors actually getting involved, they've stuck their head in when most of the issues (major at least) have actually been down to Network Rail and Nexus Rail, not Metro. This is one thing that really irks me because on the whole I'd personally say Metro (DB) are actually doing a pretty good job with what they have. The problem is they don't really have much, and everything is ageing and starting to get past it's life expectancy.


On a side note, 4083 (unrefurbed Emirates unit) was in Regent Centre Platform 1 paired with a refurb. It wasn't in service and had it's panto down, but could it be being prepared to start back in service?

4001 also had a door problem the other day (Very front doors A end), driver came along and just kicked it, he went to the rear cab and closed the doors from there, then re-released them and went back to the front cab and we left. Surely kicking the doors isn't helping their condition? Nor does it look very professional.

 

[hacman]

I agree that Metro/DB can't do much about issues at Nexus Rail and Network Rail, nor with the age of their assets.

However, poor communication can be fixed. Thankfully they're doing more on this front it seems in the last weeks.

As for the trains, things like keeping them cleaner are easy to do, and again have a very positive outward appearance to the passenger.

 

[sprinterguy]

Surely kicking the doors isn't helping their condition? Nor does it look very professional.

It's the favoured fault solving approach for dicky doors the railway over.

4001 has long been plagued with door problems, of course.

 

[Paul_10]

The whole morale within Metro is at rock bottom. Is it any surprise though? Service is low, staff aren't communicated with effectively and they have an ageing system and can't do much with it. Management then have Nexus on them, and now councillors all criticising Metro which in turn will make staff feel lower again. My biggest issue of late is the councillors actually getting involved, they've stuck their head in when most of the issues (major at least) have actually been down to Network Rail and Nexus Rail, not Metro. This is one thing that really irks me because on the whole I'd personally say Metro (DB) are actually doing a pretty good job with what they have. The problem is they don't really have much, and everything is ageing and starting to get past it's life expectancy.


On a side note, 4083 (unrefurbed Emirates unit) was in Regent Centre Platform 1 paired with a refurb. It wasn't in service and had it's panto down, but could it be being prepared to start back in service?

4001 also had a door problem the other day (Very front doors A end), driver came along and just kicked it, he went to the rear cab and closed the doors from there, then re-released them and went back to the front cab and we left. Surely kicking the doors isn't helping their condition? Nor does it look very professional.

Interesting, it could just be for shunting purposes but if it had its pantograph down, then how could it be driven from Regent Centre or from the depot to Regent Centre, unless there was someone in the cab of 4083 and communicating with the person who was driving the refurb set? Do you know if it came from the depot or from the Airport direction?

 

[MetroCar4058]

Today I noticed that 4010 'cut out' at Monument when it was in trail, so when the doors released that units doors remained armed. This was resolved I assume by a second click of the door release button. These type of faults, especially the tone and the doors not closing appear to be becoming more frequent - any ideas why this is?

I've also noticed that many MetroCars have broken PA systems, where one side or individual speakers don't work; wasn't wabtec tasked to fix stuff like this?

 

[ModernRailways]

I agree that Metro/DB can't do much about issues at Nexus Rail and Network Rail, nor with the age of their assets.

However, poor communication can be fixed. Thankfully they're doing more on this front it seems in the last weeks.

As for the trains, things like keeping them cleaner are easy to do, and again have a very positive outward appearance to the passenger.

Communication is definitely improving, but that doesn't fix staff morale. It's always going to be difficult to communicate though as situations evolve and can evolve very quickly. Some delays can last 5 minutes and so not really a huge impact, but then lengthier ones can last 1 hour or more. It's hard for Metro to determine how long a delay will last until engineers arrive on site and assess the issue.

It's the favoured fault solving approach for dicky doors the railway over.

4001 has long been plagued with door problems, of course.

Oh yeah, but normally I've just seen them give them a shake, rather than violently kicking it Either way, it fixed the problem and we were on our way. Just a hope that it doesn't potentially cause any issues further down the line.

Interesting, it could just be for shunting purposes but if it had its pantograph down, then how could it be driven from Regent Centre or from the depot to Regent Centre, unless there was someone in the cab of 4083 and communicating with the person who was driving the refurb set? Do you know if it came from the depot or from the Airport direction?

I've no idea, had staff in both ends. The points were set for the single siding there, with a South Hylton train waiting just beyond the station. Signal was red for it which is why I'm guessing it never left whilst I was there. From what I could tell the South Hylton train used Platform 2 as platform 1 was empty and we left people on platform 2.

Trains can be driven with the panto down at the leading end, just at a restricted speed.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Communication is definitely improving, but that doesn't fix staff morale. It's always going to be difficult to communicate though as situations evolve and can evolve very quickly. Some delays can last 5 minutes and so not really a huge impact, but then lengthier ones can last 1 hour or more. It's hard for Metro to determine how long a delay will last until engineers arrive on site and assess the issue.

I totally agree, I think Metro is however heading in the correct direction for communications, hopefully the new backroom system they introduce this year will have a visibly positive impact. Personally I'd say Metro is heading in a good direction, Pop is becoming more popular and to have 35,000 using it at this early stage is a very good sign indeed.

Does anyone know what became of the potential Chillingham Road maintenance depot?

 

[142094]

4083 apparently might be returning to service sooner rather than later. The work that was required on it has just about been completed and it also had both the inside and outside cleaned last week.

Interesting, it could just be for shunting purposes but if it had its pantograph down, then how could it be driven from Regent Centre or from the depot to Regent Centre, unless there was someone in the cab of 4083 and communicating with the person who was driving the refurb set? Do you know if it came from the depot or from the Airport direction?

Normally any shunting would be done within the depot limits by depot staff, who are not allowed onto the mainline. However, it may have been a spare driver. Only thing I can think of is that the depot needed the car turned around, which is done by sending the train around the triangle (into Regent Centre sidings, to South Gosforth, out of South Gosforth to Longbenton and back to the depot).

The traction motors on one Metrocar are able to haul a dead unit with the pantograph lowered or raised. Power and driving controls are transferred between the cars by the couplers. The only difference having a pantograph in the lowered position is that acceleration takes longer, and the car with the pan lowered does not have working headlights, so a bardic lamp is used and the train is limited to a lower speed. If a train develops a power fault in passenger service, the driver can isolate the defective traction motors on one car and take power from the other. This means that a faulty train can still run in service rather than becoming a complete failure. The only noticeable difference in this case to a passenger is the fact that the train will accelerate a lot slower.

4001 also had a door problem the other day (Very front doors A end), driver came along and just kicked it, he went to the rear cab and closed the doors from there, then re-released them and went back to the front cab and we left. Surely kicking the doors isn't helping their condition? Nor does it look very professional.

Each set of doors has a switch in an electrical circuit which can detect if the doors are open or closed. If the doors are not closed correctly, the switch then means that power cannot be applied by the driver and the train cannot move. With 4001 and 4002 having the Kiekert doors, the common fault is that the doors will close but the switch does not activate. If the driver cannot close the doors using the controls in the cab, the easiest and quickest way of activating the switch is to push or kick the doors in.

Today I noticed that 4010 'cut out' at Monument when it was in trail, so when the doors released that units doors remained armed. This was resolved I assume by a second click of the door release button. These type of faults, especially the tone and the doors not closing appear to be becoming more frequent - any ideas why this is?

This sounds like a coupler fault, possibly due to water ingress. The electrical signals from the driving cab do not reach the doors in the back. Worst case scenario is that the train has to be taken out of service.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Cheers for the information! Just to note 4083 has the pantograph lifted again and 4002s pantograph is dropped.

 

[Tramfan]

Today I noticed that 4010 'cut out' at Monument when it was in trail, so when the doors released that units doors remained armed. This was resolved I assume by a second click of the door release button. These type of faults, especially the tone and the doors not closing appear to be becoming more frequent - any ideas why this is?

Funnily enough the other day 4010 arrived into South Gosforth 12 minutes late and during the driver changeover I overhead the driver mention experiencing problems with the doors refusing to unlock, it was the rear unit then as well.

4083 has been moving under its own power at the depot recently for the first time in about 9 months, and was sat parked with 4020 (pantographs up on both units) the other day.

The 2 refurbished Emirates units are currently paired, and unfortunately broke down on Monday - 4082 was being driven with its pantograph down and the lamp being used in the cab as a makeshift headlight

4045 and 4073 have also made returns to service in the past week or so. Really good to see them getting a decent number of units through maintenance. Hopefully soon they can turn to attending to the badly worn tyres on a number of units - 4013, 4049 and 4052 are some of the worst

 

[danpick]

Funnily enough the other day 4010 arrived into South Gosforth 12 minutes late and during the driver changeover I overhead the driver mention experiencing problems with the doors refusing to unlock, it was the rear unit then as well.





4083 has been moving under its own power at the depot recently for the first time in about 9 months, and was sat parked with 4020 (pantographs up on both units) the other day.





The 2 refurbished Emirates units are currently paired, and unfortunately broke down on Monday - 4082 was being driven with its pantograph down and the lamp being used in the cab as a makeshift headlight





4045 and 4073 have also made returns to service in the past week or so. Really good to see them getting a decent number of units through maintenance. Hopefully soon they can turn to attending to the badly worn tyres on a number of units - 4013, 4049 and 4052 are some of the worst

4082/33 are back in service together on the Airport line.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Does anyone know what work is being carried out between Airport - South Gosforth over these two Sunday closures? Thanks in advance