Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

[ExRes]

008 and 009 arrived at Dollands Moor in the small hours of this morning. As suggested above, they will be there until the departure of 6Q23 tomorrow night, followed by 6Q34 for its final leg.

I notice that 6Q34 is direct from Wembley to Pelaw with just an hour at York Holgate, have any previous deliveries done this as I seemed to remember that they were held at Holgate and treated as two services

 

[P156KWJ]

I notice that 6Q34 is direct from Wembley to Pelaw with just an hour at York Holgate, have any previous deliveries done this as I seemed to remember that they were held at Holgate and treated as two services

There are some challenges that have come to light since the last delivery that are far too complex to explain here.

I don't usually go into this publicly, but I'm the person who planned this move. There are very few paths out of Wembley available that result in everything else falling into place, namely that Nexus can only accept deliveries overnight, but while also allowing us to balance everything operationally our end. This is why there is such a long pause at Doncaster as well. All this is while taking into account we are limited on speed.

My long term desire is to improve the overall path as time goes on (of course many more deliveries to go) and try to keep the train moving as much as possible to reduce the risk of vandalism etc, but of course it is inevitable that it will always be a tricky one to path. I like a challenge though...

 

[CL395]

Does anyone have the times for T102?

 

[rg177]

Does anyone have the times for T102?

Usual diagram is:

0530 Regent Centre to South Hylton
0626½, 0850½, 1114½, 1338½, 1602½ South Hylton to Airport
0738, 1002, 1226, 1450, 1714 Airport to South Hylton
Last journey is 1829 South Hylton to South Gosforth.

Edit - great minds and all as @Tramfan has also shared details below

 

[Tramfan]

On weekdays it should be the 0530 Regent Centre to South Hylton, then
0626, 0850, 1114, 1338, 1602 South Hylton to Airport
0738, 1002, 1226, 1450, 1714 Airport to South Hylton
ending with 1829 South Hylton to South Gosforth.

 

[rg177]

555021 (102) in service today as booked. Due to OHLE damage on Network Rail there is no service Brockley Whins to South Hylton all day - so the latter will be off the usual path.

555020 (121) currently not operating.

 

[charles123]

Is there a 555 operating on the shields line today?

 

[rg177]

Is there a 555 operating on the shields line today?

Not at the moment. There's one operating Airport to Brockley Whins and that's it.

 

[P156KWJ]

008 and 009 arriving at Pelaw tonight on 6Q34

 

[rg177]

555002 is on 121 today with 555021 on 102. Believe this is the first time 002 has done a passenger service.

 

[DanNCL]

Time to update this list with in the last 12 hours two units being delivered and a third entering service.

Key:
Green - operational in passenger service
Blue - Delivered, under test.
Orange - Delivered, not yet seen on test
Red - Complete, not yet delivered
Purple - Delivered, in use for driver training
Grey - On assembly line at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland.

Notes:
Units stored in Switzerland are split between three known locations; Stadler's St Margrethen site, the SBB yard at St Margrethen, and Stadler's Erlen site.

555001 - delivered to Gosforth 19/04/2024. Tested at VUZ Velim, Czechia, during late 2022 and early 2023.
555002 - delivered to Gosforth 14/06/2024, entered service 21/02/2025. Tested at Arth Goldau, Switzerland, in Autumn 2022, and at VUZ Velim, Czechia, during late 2022 and early 2023.
555003 - first unit to be delivered to Gosforth, arrived 28/02/2023.
555004 - delivered to Gosforth 11/03/2023.
555005 - delivered to Gosforth 06/04/2023.
555006 - delivered to Gosforth 13/09/2024.
555007 - delivered to Gosforth 13/09/2024.
555008 - delivered to Gosforth 21/02/2025.
555009 - delivered to Gosforth 21/02/2025.
555010 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555011 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555012 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555013 - delivered to Gosforth 16/12/2023.
555014 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555015 - delivered to Gosforth 16/12/2023.
555016 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555017 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555018 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555019 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555020 - delivered to Gosforth 19/04/2024, entered service 31/12/2024
555021 - delivered to Gosforth 14/06/2024, first unit to enter service 18/12/2024
555022 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555023 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555024 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555025 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555026 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555027 - delivered to Gosforth 25/10/2024.
555028 - delivered to Gosforth 25/10/2024.
555029 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555030 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555031 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555032 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555033 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555034 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555035 - complete, stored in Switzerland. Spotted in the background of a Stadler press photo for an ÖBB order.
555036 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555037 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555038 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555039 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555040 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555041 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555042 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555043 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555044 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555045 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555046 - under construction at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland

 

[DGP]

This is the first day that a 555 has worked in passenger service on Network Rail infrastructure, and also between Regent Centre and Airport.

Metro have switched from P2 to P1 at Sunderland for this as there are issues at P2 with the 555s.

Both T102 and T121 are now booked 555 Monday-Friday.

To expand, here is the BBC report https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74k9klgwyko

 

[Paul_10]

Noticed alot of comments of people complaining how narrow the seats are.

With that and the lack of ceiling grab rails, for a stadler product, it just feels cheap too me.

No doubt ride quality will be vastly improved and with the aircon system, at least it won't be loud in the tunnels in summer especially but it feels a tad underwhelming.

 

[hacman]

Noticed alot of comments of people complaining how narrow the seats are.

With that and the lack of ceiling grab rails, for a stadler product, it just feels cheap too me.

No doubt ride quality will be vastly improved and with the aircon system, at least it won't be loud in the tunnels in summer especially but it feels a tad underwhelming.

Ultimately the interior layout is a customer decision, and Nexus decided how many seats the unit should have and how they should be laid out. Stadler can only advise on this front.

As I've previously mentioned on this thread, I think the layout that was chosen is a mistake, and the consultation was heavily flawed - but either way we're stuck with this layout for at least the next 20 years now. A hybrid layout would have been far more appropriate. I wonder how many of the people who took part in the consultation and voted for the current linear seating layout may now come to regret that decision.

Additional handrails can be added more easily, though given that the ceiling height on Metro rolling stock is not as great as on the national network I hope overhead rails are added very carefully if they ever do so.

I will say the PIS system seems less polished than the typical Stadler offering though! That is a bit of a surprise and something I hope gets smoothed out as the introduction continues.

 

[Paul_10]

Ultimately the interior layout is a customer decision, and Nexus decided how many seats the unit should have and how they should be laid out. Stadler can only advise on this front.

As I've previously mentioned on this thread, I think the layout that was chosen is a mistake, and the consultation was heavily flawed - but either way we're stuck with this layout for at least the next 20 years now. A hybrid layout would have been far more appropriate. I wonder how many of the people who took part in the consultation and voted for the current linear seating layout may now come to regret that decision.

Additional handrails can be added more easily, though given that the ceiling height on Metro rolling stock is not as great as on the national network I hope overhead rails are added very carefully if they ever do so.

I will say the PIS system seems less polished than the typical Stadler offering though! That is a bit of a surprise and something I hope gets smoothed out as the introduction continues.

I'm sure the consultation was produced before covid times so the thinking was more space at peak times but as can be seen by the complaints, seats are narrower these days so more room down the isles than what their currently is and as you say, you can have a mixture of the two like we do on the current fleet.

Whether it was biased towards having London style seating, the public still choosen it and will have to get used to it, thank goodness I won't be using these trains much at all and can enjoy the more normal style seating where I am now living.

 

[hacman]

I'm sure the consultation was produced before covid times so the thinking was more space at peak times but as can be seen by the complaints, seats are narrower these days so more room down the isles than what their currently is and as you say, you can have a mixture of the two like we do on the current fleet.

Whether it was biased towards having London style seating, the public still choosen it and will have to get used to it, thank goodness I won't be using these trains much at all and can enjoy the more normal style seating where I am now living.

The issue is more that the consultation took a diagram of a single class 599 Metrocar, and then placed 3 different seating layouts over it. The hybrid layout had the transverse seating entirely arranged in "airline" configurations, as you'd find on a bus, rather than bays of 4. This presentation ignores the fact that the new trains were likely to be longer, and with space recovered from not having redundant cabs in the centre of the train. The consultation also didn't reflect the fact that the new fleet would result in more trains being available, at a time when cancellations causing overcrowding were commonplace. The way the options were presented was also biased towards entirely sideways seating, owing to this giving the impression of more space.

There was also no weighting given to account for the respondent's typical journey lengths. Someone travelling from West Jesmond to Monument may have less issue with a given layout than someone who travels daily from Monkseaton to Monument.

A well-designed consultation would have taken the final design of the units, overlaid the possible seating options, and then combined and weighted the response data with other metrics including typical journey habits, captivity of the respondent (do they own a car, will they switch to the bus), and other factors including the reasons for peoples preferences.

Personally, I feel the consultation was more or less lip service so that Nexus can deflect any complaints on the fit-out of these trains towards the passengers themselves. Nexus had before, during, and after the consultation demonstrated their own preference for the entirely linear seating arrangement - this is likely in the interests of increasing capacity, which is wise to an extent but is very myopic. A great example of this was people who engaged with the online Q&A sessions and later consultations repeatedly highlighting their concern about the lack of grab rails, only to be dismissed by Nexus.

As for seats being narrower, this is also a false economy, and one that many operators are guilty of - lots of people are very quick to comment on this subject along the lines of "oh, well people are just bigger these days" or "maybe people shouldn't be so fat". But regardless of the cause, the fact remains that seats which are not of the appropriate size for the passengers who will use the trains mean that at best comfort is reduced, and at worst seats will go unoccupied. Not something that is at all conducive in terms of getting people out of their cars.

The new fleet will be transformational for Metro - there is no doubt about that, and I remain optimistic in this regard. However, there have been several short-sighted decisions and a lack of ambition, which will ultimately mean what we're getting isn't reaching the full potential of what we could have had. As for how that would have been funded though, that's another discussion entirely.

 

[Killingworth]

I'm sure the consultation was produced before covid times so the thinking was more space at peak times but as can be seen by the complaints, seats are narrower these days so more room down the isles than what their currently is and as you say, you can have a mixture of the two like we do on the current fleet.

Whether it was biased towards having London style seating, the public still choosen it and will have to get used to it, thank goodness I won't be using these trains much at all and can enjoy the more normal style seating where I am now living.

This has been raised before. Short hop passengers through the central core heavily outnumbered longer distance users in the consultation, especially from Sunderland and going all the way to the coast or airport. Getting a seat through the core at busy times is a luxury so lack of space to get aboard was more an issue than sitting.

Sunderland respondents to the consultation felt, and probably will now feel, disgruntled about longitudinal seating - going sideways. That's democracy determined by a vote. Maybe in 15-20 years time when the units go through a mid-life refurbishment some token horizontal seating can be added. Breath not to be held.

 

[DustyBin]

This has been raised before. Short hop passengers through the central core heavily outnumbered longer distance users in the consultation, especially from Sunderland and going all the way to the coast or airport. Getting a seat through the core at busy times is a luxury so lack of space to get aboard was more an issue than sitting.

Sunderland respondents to the consultation felt, and probably will now feel, disgruntled about longitudinal seating - going sideways. That's democracy determined by a vote. Maybe in 15-20 years time when the units go through a mid-life refurbishment some token horizontal seating can be added. Breath not to be held.

That's the point; the consultation was flawed as it wasn't truly representative.

Having now been on one of the new trains, the lack of grab rails is my main concern. I'm not sure what Nexus were thinking; a mostly standing layout with nothing to hold onto is a fairly obvious flaw!

Other than that I was quite impressed.

 

[Mainliner]

Having now been on one of the new trains, the lack of grab rails is my main concern. I'm not sure what Nexus were thinking; a mostly standing layout with nothing to hold onto is a fairly obvious flaw!

I haven’t been on one yet, but from the sound of it, I can quite imagine in busy periods people bunching in areas where there is something to hold, and refusing to move along to areas where there is nothing to hold, and it would no doubt not take many incidents of people falling down for provision of more grab rails to be mandated.

 

[DustyBin]

I haven’t been on one yet, but from the sound of it, I can quite imagine in busy periods people bunching in areas where there is something to hold, and refusing to move along to areas where there is nothing to hold, and it would no doubt not take many incidents of people falling down for provision of more grab rails to be mandated.

Yes, the train I was on was busy and people were congregating around the doors for this reason.

 

[railfan249]

Yes, the train I was on was busy and people were congregating around the doors for this reason.

While I agree there is less to hold on to it’s still possible. If I remember rightly the handheld rail above is actually away from the door area where bikes and prams go.

 

[inais20]

I don’t live close enough to use the system regularly but work with people that do and everyone who’s been on the new units has mentioned the lack of grab rails. One made a comment about the narrow seats but nobody made specific comments about the new layout.

Just to add to the anecdotal data!

 

[DanNCL]

To have it all in one place, these are the booked 555 workings until further notice.

T102 Monday - Friday:
0530 Regent Centre - South Hylton
0626 South Hylton - Airport
0738 Airport - South Hylton
0850 South Hylton - Airport
1002 Airport - South Hylton
1114 South Hylton - Airport
1226 Airport - South Hylton
1338 South Hylton - Airport
1450 Airport - South Hylton
1602 South Hylton - Airport
1714 Airport - South Hylton
1829 South Hylton - South Gosforth

T121 Monday - Friday:
0458 Regent Centre - South Shields
0544 South Shields - St James
0722 St James - South Shields
0856 South Shields - St James
1034 St James - South Shields
1208 South Shields - St James
1346 St James - South Shields
1520 South Shields - St James
1658 St James - South Shields
1835 South Shields - South Gosforth

No 555 diagrams on Saturdays and Sundays at present.

 

[GDKEnts]

Why are so many in storage at Switzerland and what stops them from bringing them over quicker?

 

[Gwr12345]

Why are so many in storage at Switzerland and what stops them from bringing them over quicker?

Space at the depot. More metrocars need to go for scrap to free up space so that more can be delivered.

 

[GDKEnts]

Space at the depot. More metrocars need to go for scrap to free up space so that more can be delivered.

So they need to reduce the service temporarily to get more delivered? Short term pain for long term gain? Or am I missing something?

 

[Gwr12345]

So they need to reduce the service temporarily to get more delivered? Short term pain for long term gain? Or am I missing something?

As more and more 555s enter service, more and more metrocars will be withdrawn and sent for scrap, allowing for more 555 deliveries from Switzerland. Currently, according to @DanNCL 's thread on metrocar withdrawals there are 8 (4 sets) withdrawn which will presumably be next for scrap.

 

[DanNCL]

So they need to reduce the service temporarily to get more delivered? Short term pain for long term gain? Or am I missing something?

For every new train that enters service, two old ones can be withdrawn, stripped of reusable parts and scrapped. That process should repeat itself roughly every two weeks for the next 18 months or so until the old ones are all gone.

Gosforth isnt the only place with space issues, Stadler dont have much siding space in Switzerland either. The site where the 555s are being built has very little siding space and that has to be shared with KISS double deck EMUs that are being built at the same site for ÖBB. Stadler’s commissioning site at Erlen handles the output of both the St Margrethen plant and the larger Bussnang plant so space is also at a premium there. The result is 555s being stored in sidings on the Swiss National network, SBB are probably making quite a bit of money from this!

 

[800Travel]

Can someone remind me - how do the trains get onto the metro network once they arrive in the UK? Guessing they could go towards Sunderland on the branch off from the East Coast mainline and arrive there, but I feel like I remember someone saying they were delivered by low loader to the depot - or this may have been metrocar withdrawal.

If the delivery is fully by rail, is there any particular reason they couldn't sit in a UK siding instead of an overseas siding - for example sitting in Tyne Yard, and taken onto the network via Sunderland as and when? Maybe they aren't cleared for that route?

Not too familiar with the network myself so apologies if I've said anything stupid above!

Thanks

 

[DanNCL]

The delivery journey for the new fleet is as follows.
Journey begins from one of two locations, St Margrethen or Erlen. Regardless which the journey begins at, the first leg is to Konstanz on the Swiss/German border, hauled by a Swiss Electric loco. A delivery can see a unit from both locations, iirc this has happened twice. When that happens, the units are taken separately to Konstanz, once both units are there they are marshalled into one consist for the onward journey. When both units come from the same site in Switzerland they travel together the entire way and the re-marshalling at Konstanz is eliminated.
From Konstanz a RailAdventure diesel loco takes over, taking the delivery predominantly on secondary lines through South West Germany and Northern France to Frethun. From Frethun, a DB 92 takes the delivery through the Channel Tunnel to Dollands Moor where a DB 66 takes over and hauls the units as far as Wembley. The final leg from Wembley to the North East is hauled by a pair of RailAdventure HST power cars.

To reach Nexus infrastructure the delivery travels on the ECML to Gateshead and uses the lines avoiding Newcastle to reach Pelaw. From Pelaw the delivery turns onto the Jarrow oil terminal branch, which now shares track with Metro’s South Shields branch.
The HST power cars and the barrier wagons come off between Pelaw and Hebburn with an already delivered 555 attaching to the other end of the consist to take the new arrivals to Gosforth. The HST powercars go as far as Hebburn station as part of the shunt manouvers before returning to the mainline.

The old fleet is being removed from Howdon by road. The condemned Metrocar is dragged from Gosforth to Howdon via Whitley Bay by two operational Metrocars top and tail. Once at Howdon the condemned Metrocar is loaded straight onto road transport and leaves via the Tyne Tunnel.