Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

[Trestrol]

It’s considerably more than 800m and it didn’t ‘fall down’.

I know expensive bill for somebody.

 

[jkkne]

Isn’t that the new bit they’ve just redone?

Looks like Nexus ran another absolutely masterclass in how not to manage a crisis again. Information was incredibly poor this morning and has continued all day. Has Kearney done a video apologising yet?

 

[DanNCL]

Isn’t that the new bit they’ve just redone?

Looks like Nexus ran another absolutely masterclass in how not to manage a crisis again. Information was incredibly poor this morning and has continued all day. Has Kearney done a video apologising yet?

Some of it is, some of it isn't. As for the video from Kearney, give it a few days!

 

[Trestrol]

One has to question how the first train of the day can loose two pans when the line was perfectly fine the night before. Was there some external influence overnight?

 

[DanNCL]

One has to question how the first train of the day can loose two pans when the line was perfectly fine the night before. Was there some external influence overnight?

As soon as the first pan gets tangled the second pan is doomed. These things happen from time to time for varying reasons. Sometimes it’s down to external influences, sometimes it’s down to the tension in the wires being too weak, sometimes it’s down to a faulty pantograph.

 

[jkkne]

There's never a good time for this to happen but with a Newcastle home game, half term and Go North East once again struggling with reliability - a perfect storm, and all on the weekend where there's a price rise.

 

[ModernRailways]

As soon as the first pan gets tangled the second pan is doomed. These things happen from time to time for varying reasons. Sometimes it’s down to external influences, sometimes it’s down to the tension in the wires being too weak, sometimes it’s down to a faulty pantograph.

And sometimes it’s a mixture with the driver not realising what’s going on behind them

There's never a good time for this to happen but with a Newcastle home game, half term and Go North East once again struggling with reliability - a perfect storm, and all on the weekend where there's a price rise.

Perfectly timed, in my opinion, the infrastructure is falling apart, whether it be new infra, or old infra. Management forcing things to happen to keep the railway running, Haymarket, for example, should be closed, Monument should be closed - I was stunned to go through Monument and find people directed via platforms 3/4 and the stairs to get to 1/2 due to the escalators being broken down to 1/2. Why was the station open and not closed (or exit only), and the two revenue staff appeared wholly out of their depth trying to organise it all - not their fault it’s likely they were told to keep it open and if they’re new, which all the revenue staff seem to be, they’re not going to want to pushback and say no it’s unsafe.

It’s a total lack of competent management at all levels of the business and it’s only a matter of time before something seriously goes wrong.

Has Kearney done a video apologising yet?

Let them start repairing it, he’ll go on a site visit and then give an ‘update’, where he’ll ‘apologise’ for the disruption and thank everyone for their patience.

 

[Paul_10]

It could of course be a train fault which caused the dewirement or less likely vandalism, maybe we should find out the cause before throwing accusations around?

Either way it seems a big one given how much wiring came down. I'm sure it would of been an alarming experience for both driver and passengers, never been on a train that been dewired but apparently the sound can be quite loud and if it's dark it can be a spectacular light show.

 

[DanNCL]

Perfectly timed, in my opinion, the infrastructure is falling apart, whether it be new infra, or old infra. Management forcing things to happen to keep the railway running, Haymarket, for example, should be closed, Monument should be closed - I was stunned to go through Monument and find people directed via platforms 3/4 and the stairs to get to 1/2 due to the escalators being broken down to 1/2. Why was the station open and not closed (or exit only), and the two revenue staff appeared wholly out of their depth trying to organise it all - not their fault it’s likely they were told to keep it open and if they’re new, which all the revenue staff seem to be, they’re not going to want to pushback and say no it’s unsafe.

It’s a total lack of competent management at all levels of the business and it’s only a matter of time before something seriously goes wrong.

Haymarket should have been closed a long time ago and stayed closed until all three escalators were replaced. As for Monument, directing passengers via P3/4 to access P1/2 is only permitted for an emergency evacuation, if you see it happening at any other time it should be reported, if Nexus ignore it go straight to the ORR, I know they don't normally take reports from the public but as they've already got Nexus on close monitoring for underground stations compliance it could be worth a go.

When something does inevitably go horribly wrong there'll be Lib Dem and possibly even Tory politicians in the Chronicle and on Look North saying they've been warning of this for years, which is true they have been. The likes of Martin Gannon have ignored all criticism of Nexus, hardly surprising as in his other job of Gateshead Council leader he's out of his depth with the leisure centres scandal, and his response to any hint of criticism from anyone about anything is to mention the Leamside Line.

 

[Paul_10]

Haymarket should have been closed a long time ago and stayed closed until all three escalators were replaced. As for Monument, directing passengers via P3/4 to access P1/2 is only permitted for an emergency evacuation, if you see it happening at any other time it should be reported, if Nexus ignore it go straight to the ORR, I know they don't normally take reports from the public but as they've already got Nexus on close monitoring for underground stations compliance it could be worth a go.

To be fair I think Haymarket was exit only at that point so your basically saying instead of using a less than ideal situation and keeping the station open, shut the station and have both Monument and Haymarket passengers head towards central station?

I mean maybe some health and safety jobsworths would have a panic attack but for the vast majority the risk is low especially if passengers are directed via platform 4 where barely anyone is waiting for a train there.

 

[hacman]

they've already got Nexus on close monitoring for underground stations compliance it could be worth a go.

Are you able to elaborate on this at all? I'm curious as to what other issues there have been at the underground stations.

 

[DanNCL]

To be fair I think Haymarket was exit only at that point so your basically saying instead of using a less than ideal situation and keeping the station open, shut the station and have both Monument and Haymarket passengers head towards central station?

I mean maybe some health and safety jobsworths would have a panic attack but for the vast majority the risk is low especially if passengers are directed via platform 4 where barely anyone is waiting for a train there.

Haymarket had escalators with questionable safety. Just to give one example with two of the old escalators the plates over the escalator machinery at the bottom of the escalator would visibly wobble whenever someone heavy (such as myself) stepped on it, something you have to do to get on or off the escalator. If not rectified it could lead to someone falling into the escalator machinery and being killed, as happened in China a few years ago. Nexus have been aware of the issue for several years. Haymarket station should have been closed, with the escalators switched off and only available for use as emergency evacuation staircases.

Monument thankfully rarely has escalator issues. But if two of them to P1/2 fail those platforms should be interchange/exit only, and if all three fail the platforms should be closed. Likewise if the same happened with the escalators to P3/4 the same procedure should be followed there too.

Central, St James and Manors would never need to close because of escalator issues as they all have conventional staircases.

Are you able to elaborate on this at all? I'm curious as to what other issues there have been at the underground stations.

To be honest I probably shouldn’t even have said what I already have. There have been issues in the past, that’s all I can say.

 

[ModernRailways]

Are you able to elaborate on this at all? I'm curious as to what other issues there have been at the underground stations.

A public forum is not the place for this, however, there have been incidents, including a fatal incident at an underground station that wasn’t spotted for hours. These are under investigation by the ORR, and RAIB were/are also involved. Not much more can really be said publicly or whilst it’s under investigation.

Haymarket should have been closed a long time ago and stayed closed until all three escalators were replaced. As for Monument, directing passengers via P3/4 to access P1/2 is only permitted for an emergency evacuation, if you see it happening at any other time it should be reported, if Nexus ignore it go straight to the ORR, I know they don't normally take reports from the public but as they've already got Nexus on close monitoring for underground stations compliance it could be worth a go.

It’s been reported, I also have a copy of my report should Nexus choose to ‘lose’ it - something I would advise anyone raising or logging safety incidents should do.

To be fair I think Haymarket was exit only at that point so your basically saying instead of using a less than ideal situation and keeping the station open, shut the station and have both Monument and Haymarket passengers head towards central station?

I mean maybe some health and safety jobsworths would have a panic attack but for the vast majority the risk is low especially if passengers are directed via platform 4 where barely anyone is waiting for a train there.

Ultimately yes, that is what should happen, direct people to Jesmond, or Central.
This is the kind of thinking Metro have, and their stations management, keep it open until we really can’t get away with it anymore. It’s not a matter of convenience or jobsworths. It’s safety, and the railway has very very strict guidelines for safety, especially so for underground stations. Metro often choose to follow these rules quite lackadaisically and interpret them in a way that clearly isn’t open for interpretation.

 

[Paul_10]

If you have passenger loadings from both Haymarket and Monument heading to Central(Jesmond would be a canny walk to get too) then I would highly imagine there will be far too many people. Whether it's right on a safety level is debatable but it's alot less inconvience than shutting 2 city centre stations completely.

The escalators at Haymarket are different to the rest of the system as they are not the eco ones and are slightly older as they were done during the rebuild, I got to say they did sounded rough the last time I was there. Definitely may have to consider some sort of escalator replacement programme even though in theory they should not be anywhere near life expired.

Going back to the OHL incident, anyone know which units were involved? And it be interesting if they get new pantographs or just get withdrawn.

The numbers suggest when 555005 does arrive, 2 metrocars should be leaving the system if Nexus are still doing their 1 in and 2 out scenario.

 

[123*]

On another forum I read the following was posted, surely this can’t actually be the case? If it is, very worrying indeed…

“
one of the lads came into work about 2 hours late, was on the metro from shields to heworth and heard a massive bang on the roof and the metro stopped. they were all told to get off and when he looked the thing that connects the carriage to the power cables had snapped off. all the passengers had to walk along the tracks about a mile to pelaw metro station and climb onto the platform. he showed me the pictures of them all walking along the tracks. he said the drive stayed with the train so the passengers were just out there on their own mooching down the track in a massive group

and his monthly pass is going up by 13% as of tomorrow ”

Post #37

Metro off - possibly all day

I get that mate, I didn’t mean full time. Just maybe a strike day where the customers refuse to use it pipe dream. They’ll probably be down for maintenance when the strikes happens so no skin off their noses

www.readytogo.net

 

[ModernRailways]

If you have passenger loadings from both Haymarket and Monument heading to Central(Jesmond would be a canny walk to get too) then I would highly imagine there will be far too many people. Whether it's right on a safety level is debatable but it's alot less inconvience than shutting 2 city centre stations completely.

Staff should be good at implementing crowd control with immediate notice. So whilst yes Central would busier, it should still be able to handle the numbers, as people will arrive more spread out, some will change their travel plans, some will go to Jesmond etc. If platforms where to become too busy and unsafe, then crowd control would be implemented with passengers held at the gateline or outside the station.

Inconvenience doesn’t overcome safety, as much as Metro and Nexus might think it does. The easiest solution is for things to be maintained and looked after properly, adequate training to be provided, and empower the staff on the frontline to make those decisions and not make them feel like they’ll get sacked if they do, or if they speak out.

On another forum I read the following was posted, surely this can’t actually be the case? If it is, very worrying indeed…

“
one of the lads came into work about 2 hours late, was on the metro from shields to heworth and heard a massive bang on the roof and the metro stopped. they were all told to get off and when he looked the thing that connects the carriage to the power cables had snapped off. all the passengers had to walk along the tracks about a mile to pelaw metro station and climb onto the platform. he showed me the pictures of them all walking along the tracks. he said the drive stayed with the train so the passengers were just out there on their own mooching down the track in a massive group

and his monthly pass is going up by 13% as of tomorrow ”

Post #37

Metro off - possibly all day

I get that mate, I didn’t mean full time. Just maybe a strike day where the customers refuse to use it pipe dream. They’ll probably be down for maintenance when the strikes happens so no skin off their noses

www.readytogo.net

The evacuation should have been planned and carried out under staff supervision with staff guiding people the length of the walk. If this didn’t happen then can you please let me know, happy for you to DM with any images (images will show the track walk, and should show staff).
At no point should this have been an unplanned evacuation/track walk, the safest place to remain was inside the train.

 

[123*]

Staff should be good at implementing crowd control with immediate notice. So whilst yes Central would busier, it should still be able to handle the numbers, as people will arrive more spread out, some will change their travel plans, some will go to Jesmond etc. If platforms where to become too busy and unsafe, then crowd control would be implemented with passengers held at the gateline or outside the station.

Inconvenience doesn’t overcome safety, as much as Metro and Nexus might think it does. The easiest solution is for things to be maintained and looked after properly, adequate training to be provided, and empower the staff on the frontline to make those decisions and not make them feel like they’ll get sacked if they do, or if they speak out.


The evacuation should have been planned and carried out under staff supervision with staff guiding people the length of the walk. If this didn’t happen then can you please let me know, happy for you to DM with any images (images will show the track walk, and should show staff).
At no point should this have been an unplanned evacuation/track walk, the safest place to remain was inside the train.

Hi mate sorry I don’t have any images or anything, I read the above on another forum I read and just thought it sounded strange.

Also hearing there are HST power cars trapped on the branch due to these issues? Anyone know where they are if true? Looks like an expensive bill to someone…

 

[Paul_10]

I'm hoping there was no self evacuation happening either but we know people don't have patience and if they got to be somewhere they will do it by any means, it only takes one person and most would follow.

 

[DanNCL]

A public forum is not the place for this, however, there have been incidents, including a fatal incident at an underground station that wasn’t spotted for hours. These are under investigation by the ORR, and RAIB were/are also involved. Not much more can really be said publicly or whilst it’s under investigation.

All I’ll add to this is that with some of the things that have happened, had this been a heritage railway rather than a public transport operation a prohibition notice would likely have been issued by now.

If you have passenger loadings from both Haymarket and Monument heading to Central(Jesmond would be a canny walk to get too) then I would highly imagine there will be far too many people. Whether it's right on a safety level is debatable but it's alot less inconvience than shutting 2 city centre stations completely.

Safety has to come first. If Central subsequently became overcrowded crowd control measures would have to be implemented. If that still didn’t resolve matters closure would be the only option. Not convenient for anyone but safety is more important.

The escalators at Haymarket are different to the rest of the system as they are not the eco ones and are slightly older as they were done during the rebuild, I got to say they did sounded rough the last time I was there. Definitely may have to consider some sort of escalator replacement programme even though in theory they should not be anywhere near life expired.

The escalators at Haymarket are the originals from 1980 albeit modernised. One escalator has just been replaced, and a second is now being replaced. The third will follow later in the year.

Going back to the OHL incident, anyone know which units were involved? And it be interesting if they get new pantographs or just get withdrawn.

The numbers suggest when 555005 does arrive, 2 metrocars should be leaving the system if Nexus are still doing their 1 in and 2 out scenario.

4006 and 4088. They’ll be out of service for a while but unless there’s any major fault with them they’ll eventually get new pantographs and return to service.

4001 will be the only departure from the network in the coming months.

On another forum I read the following was posted, surely this can’t actually be the case? If it is, very worrying indeed…

“
one of the lads came into work about 2 hours late, was on the metro from shields to heworth and heard a massive bang on the roof and the metro stopped. they were all told to get off and when he looked the thing that connects the carriage to the power cables had snapped off. all the passengers had to walk along the tracks about a mile to pelaw metro station and climb onto the platform. he showed me the pictures of them all walking along the tracks. he said the drive stayed with the train so the passengers were just out there on their own mooching down the track in a massive group

and his monthly pass is going up by 13% as of tomorrow ”

Post #37

Metro off - possibly all day

I get that mate, I didn’t mean full time. Just maybe a strike day where the customers refuse to use it pipe dream. They’ll probably be down for maintenance when the strikes happens so no skin off their noses

www.readytogo.net

If this is true it needs reporting. It’s a major safety breach.

As with @ModernRailways I’m also happy to report it with more details. I’m not a Nexus employee but have direct contacts to individuals who can take action.

Inconvenience doesn’t overcome safety, as much as Metro and Nexus might think it does. The easiest solution is for things to be maintained and looked after properly, adequate training to be provided, and empower the staff on the frontline to make those decisions and not make them feel like they’ll get sacked if they do, or if they speak out.

Indeed that’s what should be happening. Instead they don’t even give staff up to date information. There’ve been multiple occasions where I’ve chosen to stay on the station to pass on service info from Metro Twitter to customer service staff, as nobody from control will tell them what’s happening. It shouldn’t be my job as a passenger to do this.

The evacuation should have been planned and carried out under staff supervision with staff guiding people the length of the walk. If this didn’t happen then can you please let me know, happy for you to DM with any images (images will show the track walk, and should show staff).
At no point should this have been an unplanned evacuation/track walk, the safest place to remain was inside the train.

I wasn’t there but this sounds to me like a Lewisham style self evacuation. Still not good and definitely needs to be reported but it’s a different situation entirely to staff instructing passengers to walk along the line with damaged OHLE for over 500m without supervision.
In any case from the location in question passengers shouldn’t have had to walk as far as Pelaw station as there are access gates off the track closer to where the incident happened.

Also hearing there are HST power cars trapped on the branch due to these issues? Anyone know where they are if true? Looks like an expensive bill to someone…

The HST powercars were due to arrive tonight with the next of the 555s, obviously that now won’t be happening. 555005 is now at Tyne Yard and is staying there until further notice. Whether the HST powercars stay with it or not remains to be seen.

 

[jkkne]

Was there a reason the Haymarket escalators weren’t fully replaced during the Haymarket Hub rebuild?

 

[DanNCL]

Was there a reason the Haymarket escalators weren’t fully replaced during the Haymarket Hub rebuild?

Cost probably. Many components were replaced but it wasn’t a complete replacement.

 

[Paul_10]

Was there a reason the Haymarket escalators weren’t fully replaced during the Haymarket Hub rebuild?

I'm sure the escalators were replaced but it was before the time Nexus bought those eco escalators we see elsewhere on the system otherwise surely they would of been replaced when the other underground stations got new ones.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Cost probably. Many components were replaced but it wasn’t a complete replacement.

LUL is operating refurbished lift and escalator equipment of a similar, or older, age. The kit has a lifespan similar to that of train, so provided it is being maintained appropriately there isn’t an issue with it simply because it’s old.

 

[ModernRailways]

Cost probably. Many components were replaced but it wasn’t a complete replacement.

This simply isn’t true. They were brand new when installed. You’d also have a hard job with the middle escalator being the same considering it used to be a, very long and steep, stair case

 

[DanNCL]

LUL is operating refurbished lift and escalator equipment of a similar, or older, age. The kit has a lifespan similar to that of train, so provided it is being maintained appropriately there isn’t an issue with it simply because it’s old.

TFL look after their infrastructure much better than Nexus do, and (Bakerloo line aside) are much better than Nexus at recognising when stuff is life expired. Take the B90s/B92s on the DLR for example which TFL are replacing at the end of their design life and not making the same mistake Nexus did with the Metrocars.

This simply isn’t true. They were brand new when installed. You’d also have a hard job with the middle escalator being the same considering it used to be a, very long and steep, stair case

You’re absolutely right I’m getting my stations muddled up, it’s Park Lane that retains its original escalators, and of course those are only 20 years old not 40. I knew it was one of the two that hadn’t had new escalators!

Although that makes it even more concerning that the escalators at Haymarket are in such poor shape as they’re only 15 years old.

 

[Paul_10]

4006 and 4088. They’ll be out of service for a while but unless there’s any major fault with them they’ll eventually get new pantographs and return to service.

I've seen the Facebook photo of 4006/88 but I'm not convinced they were actually involved in the incident as the image on the metro twitter page shows a different style M logo at the front end of the rear car and the pantograph on the rear car was also snapped off(going by the image) yet 4006 pantograph is undamaged in the images. They must of been involved in a separate incident possibly hence the suspension was extended to Gateshead stadium instead of Heworth?

Been looking at various images online and the only metrocars I seen that has type of 'M' logo are 4011, 4024 and 4086(they might be others but it's what I saw) and even though the image is not clear, it looks like the number was 4086.

Will be interesting too see if the service suspension reduces back to Heworth tomorrow.

 

[Volvictof]

On another forum I read the following was posted, surely this can’t actually be the case? If it is, very worrying indeed…

“
one of the lads came into work about 2 hours late, was on the metro from shields to heworth and heard a massive bang on the roof and the metro stopped. they were all told to get off and when he looked the thing that connects the carriage to the power cables had snapped off. all the passengers had to walk along the tracks about a mile to pelaw metro station and climb onto the platform. he showed me the pictures of them all walking along the tracks. he said the drive stayed with the train so the passengers were just out there on their own mooching down the track in a massive group

and his monthly pass is going up by 13% as of tomorrow ”

Post #37

Metro off - possibly all day

I get that mate, I didn’t mean full time. Just maybe a strike day where the customers refuse to use it pipe dream. They’ll probably be down for maintenance when the strikes happens so no skin off their noses

www.readytogo.net

I’d take that with a pinch of salt being 3rd hand info at this point. Also passengers wouldn’t need to “climb” onto the platform at Pelaw as like the rest, it has a ramp at the end.

 

[Class91Joe]

New paths in for 555005 to move to Pelaw on Monday, arriving at 00:15 Tuesday morning. With Nexus saying the line closure will last roughly a week now, surely this move can't be running?

Realtime Trains | 7Q57 2355 Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 7Q57 2355 departure from Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Trestrol]

New paths in for 555005 to move to Pelaw on Monday, arriving at 00:15 Tuesday morning. With Nexus saying the line closure will last roughly a week now, surely this move can't be running?

Realtime Trains | 7Q57 2355 Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 7Q57 2355 departure from Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

If they say a week and they restore service in four days then it's a publicity win for Nexus. There may be a bit of spin going on. Of course it's all subject to them being able to source replacement parts. There were delays sourcing contact wire for previous projects, as unlike the mainline they can't use cadmium copper for contact wire.

 

[ModernRailways]

New paths in for 555005 to move to Pelaw on Monday, arriving at 00:15 Tuesday morning. With Nexus saying the line closure will last roughly a week now, surely this move can't be running?

Realtime Trains | 7Q57 2355 Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 7Q57 2355 departure from Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They expect it to be fixed by Tuesday, possibly Monday late afternoon but the pr is just early next week.