MetroCar4058
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Thanks for sharing. If I’m honest given it is September this was the programme I thought they would be working to, not all as worrying as it sounds!
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Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler
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The Laziest
Member
Disappointing but not surprising in the least.
Somebody did mention that the promised run that would take place before the end of year would just be a token one.
I said it from the start, with the arrival of the first train delayed by two months, this was guaranteed to happen, however I cannot hide that part of me was still hoping that at least with regards to the introduction of the new fleet Nexus would meet their own ‘deadlines’.
In the meantime, the aging fleet is falling apart and the service has been an absolute shambles for the last year. Yesterday I was at Heworth and one of the Metrocars had a door fault - one of the doors would not close. Not sure if there is any way to force shut the door and mark as faulty and move on or whether the train would have needed to be taken out of service, but it was still stuck at Heworth for at least 5 minutes.
I know not strictly the right thread, but interesting to see that Murton Station has a section in that which has been redacted which I assume in the name for the new planned station between Shiremoor and West Monkseaton - always been referred as Murton Gap. Haven't seen much mention of it anywhere for a few years now.
Class142sbad
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- 77
I am aware that Nexus were doing Murton Gap as part of a work experience plan for KS4. I do wonder why it has been redacted though. The development has been progresing on the southern side next to Rake Lane. Anyways it is intretsing to see that they still want to run the new trains by December on short runs my guess is *cough* Regent Centre - Airport *cough*.
Infill development like this is rarely popular, especially if it's going to result in an additional station which will increase end-to-end journey times. Still seems an odd reason to redact it though.
What we really need is extensions along which development takes place. Arguably over the next 25-20 years more development along the Northumberland Line and extra stations along that with conversion from diesel regional rail to a high-speed Metro would be a very good way to create a good amount of suburban housing in the region.
Hearing about the failed train incident, this is where I hope the new trains come into there own with the battery power back up although the cynic in me thinks it won't be used in the early days.
Saw a photo on a group and noticed the train appears to still have traction power so I'm interested in how a train can break down between stations like this and is it a gradual slowdown to a stop or is it more sudden?
Whilst no doubt it's happened more often than you think but it's concerning there's been 2 incidents of train failures between stations and one occured in the tunnel(but thankfully close enough to Monument) and another just outside the tunnel section. Both would of been much worse if they were in the middle parts of the tunnels and from the sounds of it from today's incident, passengers self evacuated after about an hour. I suspect there's a rule on metro they can't attach sets whilst passengers are on board so your left in a situation where passengers are stuck in limbo on a hot train and there's only so much patience people have sadly.
Saw a photo on a group and noticed the train appears to still have traction power so I'm interested in how a train can break down between stations like this and is it a gradual slowdown to a stop or is it more sudden?
Whilst no doubt it's happened more often than you think but it's concerning there's been 2 incidents of train failures between stations and one occured in the tunnel(but thankfully close enough to Monument) and another just outside the tunnel section. Both would of been much worse if they were in the middle parts of the tunnels and from the sounds of it from today's incident, passengers self evacuated after about an hour. I suspect there's a rule on metro they can't attach sets whilst passengers are on board so your left in a situation where passengers are stuck in limbo on a hot train and there's only so much patience people have sadly.
Willie Bee
Member
I have a Pop card for use on the T&W Metro and almost every day notification pops up letting me know that a number of trains have been cancelled .. lack of trains is usually the excuse given.
I am looking forward to seeing the new trains
PsychoMouse
Member
I have to deal with Nexus on a daily basis, along with every other TOC / Light Rail operator, and I must say the T&W Metro is probably the least reliable service in the country. Paddington-Reading coming a close second.
Maybe the rule (if it exists) only applies in tunnels? I’ve been stuck in a broken-down unit on the QE2 bridge before, they attached the “rescue” unit while we were still on-board.
I suspect it’s much safer doing that than walking a train full of people across the bridge!
Willie Bee
Member
I visited the QE2 bridge during a couple of times during its construction and it's quite a way down. I was studying civil engineering at the time.
danbarjon
Member
Does anyone have any updates as to if we are going to see a demonstration train in service by the 31st of this month?
DanNCL
Established Member
Considering there still hasn't been any daytime testing I think it's very unlikely.
danbarjon
Member
Yeah that's what I thought but I wasn't sure if there had been more daytime testing.
ModernRailways
Established Member
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From what I have heard from ex-colleagues the date appears to now be May/June 2024 for the first passenger service.
danbarjon
Member
Is there still only 3 units here in the UK?
The Laziest
Member
What an absolute farce. Entry into passenger service will be a year late by then.
DanNCL
Established Member
Testing has been progressing. All testing is still at night but all three delivered units have now ran under their own power outside Gosforth depot and some recent tests have seen two units out at the same time. I’ve seen a photo of two of them passing each other taken at Benton. Unsure if any of the tests have seen any of the old fleet out on the network at the same time, that is something that’ll need to be tested before the units can move on to daytime testing.
555001 has been at Velim for over a year now. It’s been there longer than anything usually stays at Velim for. The TGV set that arrived at Velim around the same time as 555001 left Velim months ago.
555001 has been at Velim for over a year now. It’s been there longer than anything usually stays at Velim for. The TGV set that arrived at Velim around the same time as 555001 left Velim months ago.
At least 11 units complete in Switzerland, probably more than that now as that was a while ago.
That’s nothing compared to some other recent new fleets in the UK!
I'm not sure this new fleet is going to be the golden bullet that many are hoping for. Looking at the recent disruption issues
Flooding (a long term problem in parts of the network, particularly Callerton area and Bede)
Ill passengers (the Nexus policy appears to be leave them on the train and stop the service)
Power failures (fairly regular occurence but perhaps these are as a result of the aged fleet?)
Points failures (Pelaw and the depot seem pinch points)
Trespassers (the line is very open in places and I guess this is something that impacts a lot of operators)
Track defect (again a weekly thing)
None of this will be solved by new trains - does anyone know if Nexus have any other investment planned in terms of replacing and repairing equipment?
Flooding (a long term problem in parts of the network, particularly Callerton area and Bede)
Ill passengers (the Nexus policy appears to be leave them on the train and stop the service)
Power failures (fairly regular occurence but perhaps these are as a result of the aged fleet?)
Points failures (Pelaw and the depot seem pinch points)
Trespassers (the line is very open in places and I guess this is something that impacts a lot of operators)
Track defect (again a weekly thing)
None of this will be solved by new trains - does anyone know if Nexus have any other investment planned in terms of replacing and repairing equipment?
ModernRailways
Established Member
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3 units, but there are plenty waiting to come over.
This is a problem when stations aren’t staffed, if a passenger takes ill at somewhere like Monument whilst it’s staffed then staff can help assist them from the train and deal with it on the platform (depending on severity, sometimes keeping them where they are is best). But if you’re at Wallsend, for example, you can’t just boot them off and then leave them on their own so service comes to a stand, the alternative is to keep the train moving and meeting an ambulance somewhere further along.
Saw a photo online of 555013 completed so we are at least at that point. The new stabling roads are not due to be finished till very early next year(January/February?) so no more units till at least then? I can understand the talk of no new units in passenger service till at least May/June next year given we have not seen any daytime testing which is a significant point for sure.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The trains are being built to schedule, the problem is the stabling facilities. Construction is behind schedule- given the huge amounts of rain this autumn, this isn’t a massive surprise.
You’ll still get all those types of delays, and there will be teething problems, but the new trains will be so much better.
I was up in Newcastle a couple of weeks ago for the first time in a year. I can’t get over just how bad the system has become, even since I left in 2020, the trains really are clapped out and nothing seems to work anymore.
The one positive is the app now shows (mostly) live tracking so it’s possible to mostly swerve the 30-minute gaps in service, but still.
The Laziest
Member
Not sure what you mean - three Class 555 are already here and testing has been ongoing since May. It would be a good start if these could enter passenger service.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The stabling facilities for the new 555s are still being constructed, I believe.
There’s no room for any more of them to come over though, and the ones that are here can’t enter pax service until they have completed all testing.
3 more roads ready to come into service soon I believe.
Flooding - there are projects being planned to solved this, especially at Tyne dock.
Ill passengers - you can’t just kick an ill passenger off a train into a station that isn't staffed, the drivers certainly won’t be carrying them off, even if they did have arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Often “ill passenger“ means passed out drunk/drug user…. I certainly won’t be going near them, I don’t get paid enough to be potentially assaulted. Also they might be a genuinely unwell person, maybe elderly and not be well enough to be moved anyway. They sometimes put the train into the sidings to get it out the way but that can only really happen if there is staff members onboard to go with it, and plus, if the train breaks down and can’t leave the sidings, how will an ambulance get there? Safety comes before performance in the rail industry.
Power failures - yep, usually caused by the old trains, and the new ones can run on batteries so this won’t be as much of an issue.
The Laziest
Member
If at least one class 555 entered service, would this not translate in two Metrocars being sent for scrap and therefore make room for the 555? I might not be understanding this properly.
Like I said before, I do understand that no more can be delivered until there is room for them, but having the three already here enter passenger service would be a great starting point. The service has really got worse since February.
I do understand that the testing is still ongoing, but how could Nexus have planned their entry into service so poorly? The trains were originally due to enter passenger service in Summer 2023, but this has already been postponed multiple times and the new deadline is now May/June 2024. Do they not know how long testing for a new unit takes?
As a regular passenger I am just in disbelief at the state of the service. The longer their entry into passenger service takes, the longer Metrocars will have to continue to operate on the Network, which is far from ideal considering the fact that they are very well over their intended lifespan, breakdowns are not going to get any less common (or easier to fix), and cold temperatures translate in a lot of units going pop before they even start service. Part of me is wondering whether the testing is really going as well as advertised, because it certainly looks like they are trying not to have the Class 555 enter passenger service at all.
Killingworth
Established Member
Perhaps they want to avoid experiencing Merseyrail's somewhat lack lustre introduction into service of their 777s?
DanNCL
Established Member
A test run from Airport to South Hylton and back simulating a regular service is scheduled for the early hours of 16th December. Scheduled as train 181, 0129 Airport - South Hylton and 0236 South Hylton - Airport.
Elsewhere this sort of testing has been done mixed in with the regular service so one has to wonder if Nexus are choosing to do as much as they can overnight, possibly to minimise the time between units first running on the network during the day (and in full view of the passengers) and when they finally enter service.
As far as I understand this is a more advanced stage of testing than what TFL have achieved with the B23 DLR units that were delivered around the same time as the first 555s.
The issue with space isn’t so much a shortage of siding space but rather a shortage of secure siding space. For any further 555s to arrive without either more metrocars going for scrap or new roads opening at Gosforth, either 555s or Metrocars would have to be left at vandalism prone sites such as Stoddart Street. They’re not going to do that unless the situation were to become desperate.
A shunting accident at Velim in July (not involving the 555s present) put the test track out of action for a short period and has had an impact on the testing schedules for everything on site. Despite what I said previously there’s still stock present at Velim that was there before 555001. That won’t be helping matters.
If it’s of interest, both of the units at Velim are visible on Google Streetview in imagery from August this year. 555002 is the unit closest to the road. https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZGHcKSFAW832SA93A?g_st=ic
Nexus were over optimistic with their July 2023 estimate and shouldn’t have said it publicly. Realistically it was always going to take a minimum of 9-12 months, possibly longer, between the first train arriving and it entering service.
To run in passenger service the ORR has to authorise them. That hasn’t happened yet so even if the trains were ready and drivers trained tomorrow they still couldn’t enter service yet.
Later deliveries will enter service much quicker as the certification will already have been done.
Once the fleet replacement is in full swing it will be a case of two metrocars out for every 555 that enters service. But to start with a few 555s would need to have been in service reliably for a short period before any Metrocars can leave. After that though, Metrocars would probably go quite quickly and based on the current timetable they could probably get rid of the Metrocars altogether once the number of 555s in service reaches around the 35 mark if they’re performing reliably enough.
Elsewhere this sort of testing has been done mixed in with the regular service so one has to wonder if Nexus are choosing to do as much as they can overnight, possibly to minimise the time between units first running on the network during the day (and in full view of the passengers) and when they finally enter service.
As far as I understand this is a more advanced stage of testing than what TFL have achieved with the B23 DLR units that were delivered around the same time as the first 555s.
The issue with space isn’t so much a shortage of siding space but rather a shortage of secure siding space. For any further 555s to arrive without either more metrocars going for scrap or new roads opening at Gosforth, either 555s or Metrocars would have to be left at vandalism prone sites such as Stoddart Street. They’re not going to do that unless the situation were to become desperate.
A shunting accident at Velim in July (not involving the 555s present) put the test track out of action for a short period and has had an impact on the testing schedules for everything on site. Despite what I said previously there’s still stock present at Velim that was there before 555001. That won’t be helping matters.
If it’s of interest, both of the units at Velim are visible on Google Streetview in imagery from August this year. 555002 is the unit closest to the road. https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZGHcKSFAW832SA93A?g_st=ic
The first few trains of a brand new design usually take a long time to enter service.
Nexus were over optimistic with their July 2023 estimate and shouldn’t have said it publicly. Realistically it was always going to take a minimum of 9-12 months, possibly longer, between the first train arriving and it entering service.
To run in passenger service the ORR has to authorise them. That hasn’t happened yet so even if the trains were ready and drivers trained tomorrow they still couldn’t enter service yet.
Later deliveries will enter service much quicker as the certification will already have been done.
Once the fleet replacement is in full swing it will be a case of two metrocars out for every 555 that enters service. But to start with a few 555s would need to have been in service reliably for a short period before any Metrocars can leave. After that though, Metrocars would probably go quite quickly and based on the current timetable they could probably get rid of the Metrocars altogether once the number of 555s in service reaches around the 35 mark if they’re performing reliably enough.
The Laziest
Member
Do we know why they may be trying to minimise daytime testing before the units enter passenger service? Sounds quite bizarre.