I’m sure she mandated this in law along with the museum/gallery/cinema update she did on Friday
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UK face coverings discussion
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In Scotland, the law was amended with effect from Saturday and now states that a face shield is not an adequate face covering.
I'd say that's a very good point.
Which will end up causing more problems as they were meant for people who weren't comfortable wearing a face covering. Wonder if people will begin to realise how many are exempt
If you follow the letter of the law, you can be classed as exempt if it causes “severe distress” and, as this is technically subjective, as far as I’m concerned everyone is technically exempt and it’s more about making people feel guilty/shaming people for not wearing one. I imagine enforcement will only be carried out when a police officer asks if someone is exempt and get a rather blunt, potentially offensive reply
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They aren't meant for that at all. As I said above, they are intended to protect the wearer (not others) from sprayed droplets from the mouth or nose (e.g. a sneeze) of an infected person. They do not protect others from the wearer to any significant extent because they simply redirect the breath sideways/downwards.
Yeah that's the problem I see with it. Just fuels the busy bodies of society to be more invasive of people's privacy because won't believe that people can actually be exempt
bramling
Veteran Member
Yes I suspect police will be asking “can I ask why you are not wearing a mask?”, and if the response is “can’t be bothered” then issues will arise.
Of course in reality BTP resources are extremely thinly spread, there aren’t masses of officers waiting around ready to be redeployed as mask inspectors.
Certainly on the Underground mask use has dropped off a cliff today. From what I’ve seen this afternoon it’s less than 50%.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You're exempt under that exemption if and only if the act of you (not others) wearing one actually causes you severe distress. That probably includes a few in here who would effectively be agoraphobic as a result. It doesn't extend to mild discomfort, as I experience while wearing one, nor does it extend to a view that the law is a bad one - actually wearing the mask has to cause you "severe distress" in and of itself..
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..and rapidly out of business too!
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
It would be unacceptable to the government too - why on earth would they spend millions on the 'Eat Out to Help Out'
scheme only to summarily close all the restaurants/pubs down a few days after the scheme ends??!
MARK
Because the government will not know what to do so they will go into panic mode and retort that reopening schools is of paramount importance and "if we open one thing, we must close something"
bramling
Veteran Member
Eat out to help out is a Sunak baby, so you could quite easily end up with someone else like Johnson or Hancock doing something which conflicts with it.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
You mean something along the lines of "you must wear a face mask from the time you enter our restaurant to after you leave and you may only lower it to spoon food into your mouth...and use a straw for drinking that protrudes from one side of the mask..."
Can I bet £50 on who's going to agree with that
?!!RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
I can't seem to find this in the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020... Would one of you be kind enough to direct me to it? Thanks in advance
You really are pushing the boat out now. I've been out and about since masks were mandated in shops and I can probably count on two hands the number of people wearing face shields, so the effect this'll have had on the population is marginal.
Unless you've (mis)interpreted it to say that a visor is mandatory in addition to a face mask.
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
Edit: sorry, misunderstood your post! Yes, exactly that
bramling
Veteran Member
Can I bet £50 on who's going to agree with that
I’m sure someone could devise a mask which has an aperture for the mouth to allow eating, no doubt it would make some people happy!
Actually that raises an interesting (though very tangential) point.
Early in the pandemic, I remember hearing about someone devising a face covering which had a transparent part above the mouth. I was delighted - since one of the main reasons I hate seeing people wearing masks is that it makes it difficult to gauge their facial expressions. I believe it was designed for those involved in lip reading.
Whatever happened to that?
PupCuff
Member
I only spotted the face shield change in Scotland today; it's all quite silly really because those who are wearing face shields because they can't wear close-to-the face masks for whatever reason and want to make an effort to comply with the law are now simply going to end up wearing no mask at all and claiming an exemption. It doesn't give any benefit to anyone.
The definition of face covering in regulation 10 (Interpretation) has been changed to...
""face covering" means a covering of any type (other than a face shield) which covers a person's nose and mouth"
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
Thanks - much appreciated
Apologies - misunderstanding on my part, I thought they were mandating both at the same time, rather than realising that visors are even more pointless than masks!
On Bridgend station listened in to a conversation between a couple of Silurian Security staff (only ever seen them at Cardiff Central previously) and a local who they seemed to know. The local lady was complaining about apparent flouting of mask wearing rules on her train from Maesteg earlier in the day. She had challenged a group of maskless lads who had told her to mind her business, she had backed off only because her daughter was with her so she said.
The security bods assured her that they were scheduled to be on her return train, for which she was waiting, to ensure compliance, and had been doing the same on Barry Island services earlier in the day. They also said that as of Thursday night they had been advised only to accept exemptions on production of a letter.
I was waiting for a different train but decided to test them out. When my train pulled in I stepped towards the door with no mask on.
Security: Excuse me, do you have a mask?
Me: No, I'm exempt.
Security: You need a letter, we've been told you need a letter if you're exempt.
Me: Sorry but I don't think it would be appropriate for me to give you my personal details.
Security: But we're security...
I decided to drop it there and board.
No sooner had I stepped into the vestibule than a fellow passenger held out a mask, asking if I wanted one. Not sure if they were being helpful or making a point after hearing the conversation.
I then managed to choose a seat opposite a middle aged couple who spent the entire next hour and a half muttering about people with no masks, or no wearing them properly, monitoring how many were not complying on board and trying to work out how to contact "British Rail" to complain about the guard not coming round to enforce. At one point they were ready to take photos of fellow passengers but then decided it may be illegal.
I rarely ever felt so uncomfortable on a train journey. Not because of Covid but the attitude of other people. I can tolerate a mask (worn below the nose, yes I know that's not how to do it properly but fiddled so much it was broken by my destination). I just felt I was being watched the whole time. Perhaps because my first train trip since March, and being Wales the only setting where masks are required.
Anyway virtually all rail staff I saw sporting masks, on and off train, including BTP at Carmarthen and PCSOs at Tenby.
The security bods assured her that they were scheduled to be on her return train, for which she was waiting, to ensure compliance, and had been doing the same on Barry Island services earlier in the day. They also said that as of Thursday night they had been advised only to accept exemptions on production of a letter.
I was waiting for a different train but decided to test them out. When my train pulled in I stepped towards the door with no mask on.
Security: Excuse me, do you have a mask?
Me: No, I'm exempt.
Security: You need a letter, we've been told you need a letter if you're exempt.
Me: Sorry but I don't think it would be appropriate for me to give you my personal details.
Security: But we're security...
I decided to drop it there and board.
No sooner had I stepped into the vestibule than a fellow passenger held out a mask, asking if I wanted one. Not sure if they were being helpful or making a point after hearing the conversation.
I then managed to choose a seat opposite a middle aged couple who spent the entire next hour and a half muttering about people with no masks, or no wearing them properly, monitoring how many were not complying on board and trying to work out how to contact "British Rail" to complain about the guard not coming round to enforce. At one point they were ready to take photos of fellow passengers but then decided it may be illegal.
I rarely ever felt so uncomfortable on a train journey. Not because of Covid but the attitude of other people. I can tolerate a mask (worn below the nose, yes I know that's not how to do it properly but fiddled so much it was broken by my destination). I just felt I was being watched the whole time. Perhaps because my first train trip since March, and being Wales the only setting where masks are required.
Anyway virtually all rail staff I saw sporting masks, on and off train, including BTP at Carmarthen and PCSOs at Tenby.
The issue here is highlighted, those in power try to shape the law to their own advantage when it's not their place to do so, I've heard a couple of accounts of this happening across the country, hopefully just a minority but still not acceptable.
The newspaper story here lists various people selling such things, pointing out why it can be so important:
bramling
Veteran Member
The level of neurosis there really is concerning, certainly not good for mental health.
To be honest, I'm quite ready to explode should I find myself involved with one of these interfering neurotic types.
This is how I feel about it. I am avoiding shops etc as much as possible but if I get any interviews at any point I know I will need to use public transport and I fully expect to encounter at least one person like this at some point. I will have my lanyard in use anyway so if anyone is stupid enough to say anything about it in a manner that isn't polite I will tell them exactly what I think
This does remind me of some of the more over the top behaviour when Silurian were doing the door protection on the Rhymney 37's.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
People do need to make formal complaints about the conduct of any staff who suggest the requirement is in excess of the company's policy (which so far as I am aware is just in line with Welsh law, so not requiring any letter or similar).
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