Unable to produce digital railcard - reported for prosecution

[AlterEgo]

True. But there is a downside in that using the 'once a year' exemption now means it cannot be used for another 12 months. Its a decision for the OP's daughter to make now we've all given advice.

Sounds a bit like suggesting arguing with the referee when he's in the process of giving you a yellow card for a clear foul.

She was unable to show the railcard, this is what the policy is designed for. Anything else is dancing on the head of a pin.

Keep it simple, send in copy of railcard as per letter. Nothing else about possible inconsistencies.

If (and only if) this gets rejected should the detail be considered, then can start to go into detail about if walking across a concourse is travelling on the railway, or they are looking at the wrong journey.

Quite. Keep your powder dry, I say.

 

[Sebastian O]

You shouldn't X/S away a railcard discount, the rules say a new ticket should be purchased and a refund obtained on the original.

So in cash terms, you’re advising it effectively to be excessed?

 

[Western Sunset]

Just a thought, as this thread will doubtless close soon.
Is "forgetting a railcard", and the one-strike policy around that, the same as not being able to show a railcard, even though it's somewhere on your smartphone and you've not "forgotten" it, 'cause you know it's there but you can't access it immediately?
Just a wondering...

 

[AlterEgo]

So in cash terms, you’re advising it effectively to be excessed?

The refund will usually come with an administration fee, although I agree with the principle the rules are quite silly in this case.

 

[Turtle]

Just a thought, as this thread will doubtless close soon.
Is "forgetting a railcard", and the one-strike policy around that, the same as not being able to show a railcard, even though it's somewhere on your smartphone and you've not "forgotten" it, 'cause you know it's there but you can't access it immediately?
Just a wondering...

Very good point. We have a situation where production of a ticket/railcard etc is now dependent on third parties i.e an electronic instrument, WiFi connection, Internet provider etc. Railway regulations must be modified to recognise this new age. After all it is the railway, as an institution, which encourages the travelling public to utilise these new practices.

 

[spag23]

I've never had any form of electronic ticket/railcard; for the very reasons that keep cropping up on this forum!
But is it not possible to print off the relevant screen (eg with its QR code), and carry this paper version as a backup?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never had any form of electronic ticket/railcard; for the very reasons that keep cropping up on this forum!
But is it not possible to print off the relevant screen (eg with its QR code), and carry this paper version as a backup?

Railcards are more like m-tickets than e-tickets, so no, not as such. A screenshot doesn't confer validity.

That's why I recommend e-tickets, but do not recommend the use of electronic Railcards. They are simply flawed in concept. You can't have a 26-30 any other way, but all other Railcards are available as a plastic card which, if you don't carry a wallet, can easily be slipped into a phone case.

Sometimes Trainline do cheap online only Railcards, but this is in my view a false economy.

 

[spag23]

My wife's Senior Railcard (bought over the counter) is on paper; so even easier to carry than plastic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My wife's Senior Railcard (bought over the counter) is on paper; so even easier to carry than plastic.

I find I prefer the plastic ones, the paper ones are a bit flimsy and easy to accidentally pull out of your wallet alongside another card. But each to their own; I just feel the digital ones are not fit for purpose (unlike e-tickets).

 

[_toommm_]

I've never had any form of electronic ticket/railcard; for the very reasons that keep cropping up on this forum!
But is it not possible to print off the relevant screen (eg with its QR code), and carry this paper version as a backup?

There’s two problems with that, and I’ll use my digital railcard to show them:

(The screenshot below is of my three-year 16-25 railcard, issued in TheTrainLine app, with my personal details blurred out)



The first issue is that when you screenshot or print it out, the logo on the bottom right stops ‘shimmering’/fading from pink to blue to purple to pink etc.


The QR code also enlargers when you press on it, so if it was to be scanned (I’ve only ever had this once), then that would be obvious with a screenshot, and obviously not possible with a print-out.

 

[spag23]

I take the point about rigidity; mine happens to be plastic. But my wife's lives in its own compartment and has never needed to be shown. But - as I'd mentioned elsewhere - its expiry date is already noted in next year's diary!

 

[rs101]

Railcards are more like m-tickets than e-tickets, so no, not as such. A screenshot doesn't confer validity.

That's why I recommend e-tickets, but do not recommend the use of electronic Railcards. They are simply flawed in concept. You can't have a 26-30 any other way, but all other Railcards are available as a plastic card which, if you don't carry a wallet, can easily be slipped into a phone case.

Sometimes Trainline do cheap online only Railcards, but this is in my view a false economy.

You can usually have them on multiple devices though, so I have my Network Railcard on both my personal and work phones, plus my partner's phone.

Not that mine's been checked at all in the last 5 years of travel, either on Greater Anglia or the Heathrow Express.

 

[MikeWh]

Just a thought, as this thread will doubtless close soon.
Is "forgetting a railcard", and the one-strike policy around that, the same as not being able to show a railcard, even though it's somewhere on your smartphone and you've not "forgotten" it, 'cause you know it's there but you can't access it immediately?
Just a wondering...

In this instance I'd liken it to having forgotten that the railcard app would need to be re-installed on the new phone.

 

[Andyjs247]

Whilst there are similarities I don’t think that the digital railcard was forgotten. Maybe there was a lack of awareness on my daughter’s part that the app would need to be reinstalled but there was always an expectation that she would be able to produce railcard + ticket together.

It’s generally possible to provide evidence in more than one way. I don’t know if it’s possible to add a railcard to eg Apple wallet but that would seem to be more flexible than the app.

With event tickets you can often add them to the digital wallet plus you have an email confirmation which you can show electronically or print a physical copy if preferred.

It is also reasonable not to be treated any less favourably than someone who has forgotten their physical railcard.

 

[_toommm_]

It’s generally possible to provide evidence in more than one way. I don’t know if it’s possible to add a railcard to eg Apple wallet but that would seem to be more flexible than the app.

With event tickets you can often add them to the digital wallet plus you have an email confirmation which you can show electronically or print a physical copy if preferred.

It's not possible to add it into the Wallet as there's the security feature I mentioned above, which is the primary way that the railcard legitimacy is validated as it never gets scanned. The conformation also isn't accepted apart from the rare time that the TOCs and RDG cooperate when the app goes down and allow people to travel on the railcard conformations (although in the digital railcard T&Cs I think there still exists a line saying they aren't responsible for when the app goes haywire).

 

[John Palmer]

It is also reasonable not to be treated any less favourably than someone who has forgotten their physical railcard.

I completely agree that your daughter should have been treated no less favourably than any other traveller.

The only difference I can see between your daughter's position and that of a traveller who says that he has forgotten to bring his railcard is that the ticket your daughter produced raised the possibility that a railcard-discounted journey had already been made in the absence of the railcard, that an offence had consequently been committed, and that the possible commission of such an offence required investigation with a view to prosecution if it turned out that the requisite railcard had never existed.

This is the only justification I can see for a report with a view to prosecution, but it is a course that only makes sense in relation to the outbound journey from Bicester to Bristol – exactly as suggested by the terms of the letter GWR sent to your daughter.

Evidently your daughter had little difficulty in getting the railcard activated on the new phone shortly after her encounter with the RPI, which leads me to wonder whether, had the RPI given her the opportunity to activate it on the new device by moving into WiFi range, she would have been able to do so within a reasonable space of time. Did she make the RPI aware that she had just purchased a new phone and that her railcard had been active on the old phone during her journey from Bicester?