"Unauthorised occupation of this seat"

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On reservetion labels I have seen a notice which states a £50 fine for "Unauthorised occupation of this seat".

I was wondering what it actually means, and whether anyone has actually seen someone (or been themselves) fined?

 

[Flamingo]

More used as a threat, in my experience.

 

[rail-britain]

It was more relevant during BR days, and doesn't appear to be enforced now
Equally, there used to be a disclaimer about unauthorised removal
I had to enforce this once on a group of four passengers who claimed the seats did not have reservation labels and refused to move
BTP were more than happy to assist and the outcome was all four passengers were removed from the train, albeit the train was delayed by about 10 minutes

 

[trentside]

The East Coast ones still carry a threat of a fine for unauthorised removal - £200, far higher than the cost of sitting in the seat without a reservation. I'm able to tell you this as I use one as a bookmark, but it was mine from the first Lincoln to London service.

 

[Minilad]

More used as a threat, in my experience.

As is the notice saying you will get a fine for unauthorised use of the pass-com

 

[Lampshade]

The East Coast ones still carry a threat of a fine for unauthorised removal - £200, far higher than the cost of sitting in the seat without a reservation. I'm able to tell you this as I use one as a bookmark, but it was mine from the first Lincoln to London service.

Yes, I know someone who collects them - technically they owe XC £9800 hock:

 

[NSE]

I know the Cross Country ones also carry a hefty fine for removal. However I figured that as it was my own ticket and the reservation was ended as I got off, I could swipe it :P

 

[WillPS]

If I'm travelling from Sheffield-Nottingham on a Liverpool-Norwich service with a reservation, and there are no reservations on the ticket beyond Nottingham I always take the ticket out as a courtesy to those getting on later (easier to see seats without labels!).

 

[Stigy]

As is the notice saying you will get a fine for unauthorised use of the pass-com

There is a Penalty Notice for Disorder that can be used for that one, although only BTP and Accredited Staff would be able to enforce it. You could also report offenders under Byelaws, which could lead to a hefty fine at court.

There's no such Penalty Notice for "unauthorised use of a seat", much the same as there's no Penalty Notice for feet on seats. A TOC could either seek to prosecute, or go with an administrative penalty like Merseyrail do. Regarding the seating, you could report under Byelaw 19, which relates more commonly to First Class accommodation, but could be adapted quite easily for this situation.

 

[Flamingo]

As is the notice saying you will get a fine for unauthorised use of the pass-com

Funnily enough, I had someone threatening to pull the pass-com today when I told them they owed me a change of route excess. The conversation ended (and he paid up) when I told him that if he did, the train would not be moving again until it was confirmed that the police had arrived at the next station and were waiting for him.

But that is nothing to do with reserved seats!

It is common enough to find a group of four at a table, claiming there were no reservations in the seats (although every other reservation in the train was OK). The usual path is to ask them politely to move, and if they refuse, tell the people who have the reservations (loudly) to move to First Class, and tell the bods in the seats "You can stay there, but if you had moved, I would have put you in First Class".

On the occasions when two people claim to have a reservation for the same seat, invariably one of them is on the wrong train! I've only ever once seen it where it was genuine. It can be amusing on occasions, as I have had people bring it to my attention, and when I look at the reservation on their advance ticket I realise I hadn't look closly enough and the date was wrong. Ching ching!

 

[table38]

claiming there were no reservations in the seats

I've seen people remove them or swap them around more times than I care to remember.

On one occasion, a couple were going to sit opposite me, then she noticed that the seats were reserved. Her other half threw the reservations on the floor and said "they're not now"

 

[Flamingo]

I'm always quite happy to challenge / shift / threaten to remove from train with cases like this (however it has never come to this - I don't play poker, but I bluff very well!)

 

[jopsuk]

On the occasions when two people claim to have a reservation for the same seat, invariably one of them is on the wrong train! I've only ever once seen it where it was genuine. It can be amusing on occasions, as I have had people bring it to my attention, and when I look at the reservation on their advance ticket I realise I hadn't look closly enough and the date was wrong. Ching ching!

I've had it happen to me! A couple of years ago on Virgin WC. When I told the TM (later in the journey- there were two further seats at the table not reserved) he was genuinely interested as he'd been coming across it a lot, and was compiling occurrences to report upwards.

 

[Roylang]

On the occasions when two people claim to have a reservation for the same seat, invariably one of them is on the wrong train! I've only ever once seen it where it was genuine. It can be amusing on occasions, as I have had people bring it to my attention, and when I look at the reservation on their advance ticket I realise I hadn't look closly enough and the date was wrong. Ching ching!

My wife and I once had double booked seats on a GNER service from Leeds to King's Cross. We were already sat in our seats when another couple arrived and demanded that we move. I showed them our reservation, they showed me theirs, both were correct. A member of staff was passing and stopped to see what was wrong.
The other couple started swearing about what a shower GNER was and demanding that they have the seats that they had paid for. My wife and I were asked to move, and were taken to first class .
You should have seen the look on the other couples face as we were informed this quite loudly as we started to be led down the train. And yes, there were other seats available in the coach in which we had our reservations!

Roy

 

[HST Power]

You should have seen the look on the other couples face as we were informed this quite loudly as we started to be led down the train. And yes, there were other seats available in the coach in which we had our reservations!
Roy

You're a lucky one!

I think it's a good idea to have these labels. I try to only use East Coast when I go on long distance train trips because you can get the single seats, thus there's a lot more room for your laptop, your breakfast, and your legs! I wouldn't be happy if I reserved a single seat but got stuck on a seat next to a table desgined for four.

 

[bocaj]

Hi,
I have traveled twice to London on the Train with reserved seats, both times their were people sat in our seats, when we Asked them to move they would not, so we got a member of staff. They just told them to move, they got no fine at all!

To Stop people from removing the reserved seat signs maybe they could use some kind of loking system which you need a key to remove the sign, which only staff on the train have.


Jacob

 

[snail]

I've had it happen to me! A couple of years ago on Virgin WC. When I told the TM (later in the journey- there were two further seats at the table not reserved) he was genuinely interested as he'd been coming across it a lot, and was compiling occurrences to report upwards.

Same here. I was booked on a relief service from Glasgow-Euston, but the online booking timings just showed two trains departing at the same time, with arrival times 1 minute apart at Euston. The service with the later arrival had cheaper AP tickets so naturally I booked on that one. My reservation had the advertised departure time for the service, I had no idea there was a relief running until I got on the train. As it happened, the relief train failed at Carlisle so it was a good thing I was on the wrong one!

 

[Roylang]

You're a lucky one!

I always found GNER customer service good, I know they had lots of complaints when compared to other TOCs that only ran shorter services. However, I guess that was partly due to people hoping to get more money back as a result of the higher fares paid.

roy

 

[CosherB]

I travelled on the 06:59 Wilmslow to Euston recently. I had a reserved seat but it was next to a wall, with no view, so I sat in a nearby window seat which had in the overhead display "available until Stockport". So this was a seat that had been reserved from Stockport onwards, but the reservation not taken up (Stockport is the stop before Wilmslow).

Later in the journey I looked at the display again. It had changed, and now just read "Reserved". Why had it changed?

 

[causton]

To Stop people from removing the reserved seat signs maybe they could use some kind of loking system which you need a key to remove the sign, which only staff on the train have.


Jacob

Or just install screens - and then it virtually eliminates the occurrences of reservations not being put out! :P

 

[AlterEgo]

Or just install screens - and then it virtually eliminates the occurrences of reservations not being put out! :P

Not if they break all the time.

Naming no TOCs of course.

 

[HST Power]

I like the idea of a locking key, only problem is that the turn around time for a HST is very fast. I went from Newcastle to London Kings Cross and the staff didn't start ripping out the old reservation tickets until we'd passed Hitchin and Arlesey. If you were to have a locking key it would potentially take a lot longer to remove the cards, thus this distracts train crew from performing other duties.

The screens are worthwhile providing they don't fail.

 

[table38]

The screens are worthwhile providing they don't fail.

As has been said before, it would be helpful if there was a small LED in each seat back as well so that you could easily scan for unreserved seats without having to stop and hold everyone else up whilst the screen...............as..............it...............scrolls...............along.............ever................so................slowly

 

[HST Power]

As has been said before, it would be helpful if there was a small LED in each seat back as well so that you could easily scan for unreserved seats without having to stop and hold everyone else up whilst the screen...............as..............it...............scrolls...............along.............ever................so................slowly

Yes, that would work. Or, TOCs could specify reserved seats by putting a sticker on the table; that would probably be less expensive.

 

[Harlesden]

I travelled on the 06:59 Wilmslow to Euston recently. I had a reserved seat but it was next to a wall, with no view, so I sat in a nearby window seat which had in the overhead display "available until Stockport". So this was a seat that had been reserved from Stockport onwards, but the reservation not taken up (Stockport is the stop before Wilmslow).

Later in the journey I looked at the display again. It had changed, and now just read "Reserved". Why had it changed?

Are there any tips to prevent this happening? It seems not all booking clerks are familiar with the layout of the coaches. I once specifically requested a seat next to a window on an EC service (09:00 to Glasgow) but found myself next to a wall.

 

[londonbridge]

I've seen people remove them or swap them around more times than I care to remember.

On one occasion, a couple were going to sit opposite me, then she noticed that the seats were reserved. Her other half threw the reservations on the floor and said "they're not now"

So what happened when the passengers who had the reservations boarded??

 

[HST Power]

On one occasion, a couple were going to sit opposite me, then she noticed that the seats were reserved. Her other half threw the reservations on the floor and said "they're not now"

Idiots. If I were a TOC, I would make such people pay a penalty fare and ban them from further travel, even if the carriages were jam packed and there wasn't a seat in one hundred miles.

 

[AlterEgo]

Are there any tips to prevent this happening? It seems not all booking clerks are familiar with the layout of the coaches. I once specifically requested a seat next to a window on an EC service (09:00 to Glasgow) but found myself next to a wall.

There's a Pendolino and Voyager seating plan online. Blue seats have poor or no view.


http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/global/seating-plan.pdf

 

[HST Power]

There's a Pendolino and Voyager seating plan online. Blue seats have poor or no view.

Pendo FC seats aren't too bad, but I would rather they did an EC and introduced single seats.

 

[AlterEgo]

Pendo FC seats aren't too bad, but I would rather they did an EC and introduced single seats.

There are a few - mostly in Coach K. I count 8 in total throughout First Class. Others are under the pantograph recess in H, and beside service points.