(UP) Help in response to Witness Statement MG11

[Mild]

Good morning,
I've been issued a MG11 yesterday evening around 20:00 at Darford for doing a partial ticket which is Dartford to Slade Green which should've been Erith. I've already been fined recently before and the reason I gave yesterday was because I'm a student. At that time, I (M, 21) was saving because around October last year I was overcharged around £19-£23 during my return travel. I did try to appeal but TFL site was down during that time because of 'cyber attack' and decided to take matters into my own hands and decided to save up by buying partial ticket to the money they overcharged.

And as you can tell I got greedy and was fined, but if i may add the reason i didn't fully commit to buying Erith ticket the reason was because the guy who fined me was being 'rude' to me at least, as i was being honest and calm but he repeatedly asked me the same question ticking me off and he was also raising his voice when I was calmly answering his questions where I even pointed him out to 'chill out' maybe because of that, I didn't fully listen to the person out of self pity (yes I know it was foolish of me but what can I do human emotions). Anyway as I was saying I didn't fully commit on buying only partial ticket to Slade Green but also bought ticket to Erith albeit most of them were Slade Green.

This my first time getting MG11 and I saw that I can get criminal offense and didn't know that, officer who issued it to me didn't really explain fully on what is it and that I can get persocuted and I answered all of his questions honestly so what should I do?

If I can add I'm a student around Erith that's why I travel there, thank you for taking your time to read and answer my question. Regarding the overcharged I also screenshot it to give proof if that helps.

 

[John R]

Can I check, when you say you “didn’t fully commit…”, do you mean “didn’t admit (to not buying a full length ticket)”.

Also it sounds as though you have done this on more than the one time you were stopped. Is that correct?

When you were fined before, was that a Penalty Fare, where you had to pay for the proper ticket plus £100 (reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days). And was it with the same rail company?

 

[Mild]

Can I check, when you say you “didn’t fully commit…”, do you mean “didn’t admit (to not buying a full length ticket)”.

Also it sounds as though you have done this on more than the one time you were stopped. Is that correct?

When you were fined before, was that a Penalty Fare, where you had to pay for the proper ticket plus £100 (reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days). And was it with the same rail company?

What I mean by that is that I bought Slade Green and also Erith. So I did a mixed of both but as I said most of them were Slade Green

Yes that is correct

Yes and I'm not sure if it was the same rail company but I think it probably was SouthEastern as that's the train I take.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've already been fined recently before and the reason I gave yesterday was because I'm a student.

The reason for what? The previous penalty fare, or the reason you short fared? How would being a student be of any relevance?

At that time, I (M, 21) was saving because around October last year I was overcharged around £19-£23 during my return travel. I did try to appeal but TFL site was down during that time because of 'cyber attack' and decided to take matters into my own hands and decided to save up by buying partial ticket to the money they overcharged.

That’s not wise. Stealing from a shop because they didn’t refund you doesn’t make it alright. Hopefully you didn’t explain this during your interview under caution - giving your notice for the offending is unwise. In fact, talking to them at all, beyond giving your name and address as legally obliged, is unwise, especially if you’ve been caught red handed.

And as you can tell I got greedy and was fined, but if i may add the reason i didn't fully commit to buying Erith ticket the reason was because the guy who fined me was being 'rude' to me at least

This doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that the reason you short fared even after being fined is because you felt the staff member was rude? What am I missing?

This my first time getting MG11 and I saw that I can get criminal offense and didn't know that, officer who issued it to me didn't really explain fully on what is it and that I can get persocuted and I answered all of his questions honestly so what should I do?

You need to wait for them to write to you with a report (or intention) of prosecution letter. It usually asks you for your response.

If I can add I'm a student around Erith that's why I travel there, thank you for taking your time to read and answer my question. Regarding the overcharged I also screenshot it to give proof if that helps.

It’s not relevant in the slightest. Do not advance this explanation of your motivation to the company when they write. Nor should you mention anything else you’ve written here. You should apologise for the short faring, say it will not happen again, explain how and why you know it is wrong, and demonstrate that you are buying the proper fare moving forward.

 

[Mild]

The reason for what? The previous penalty fare, or the reason you short fared? How would being a student be of any relevance?


That’s not wise. Stealing from a shop because they didn’t refund you doesn’t make it alright. Hopefully you didn’t explain this during your interview under caution - giving your notice for the offending is unwise. In fact, talking to them at all, beyond giving your name and address as legally obliged, is unwise, especially if you’ve been caught red handed.


This doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that the reason you short fared even after being fined is because you felt the staff member was rude? What am I missing?


You need to wait for them to write to you with a report (or intention) of prosecution letter. It usually asks you for your response.


It’s not relevant in the slightest. Do not advance this explanation of your motivation to the company when they write. Nor should you mention anything else you’ve written here. You should apologise for the short faring, say it will not happen again, explain how and why you know it is wrong, and demonstrate that you are buying the proper fare moving forward.

The reason I gave when he asked why I did it was because I'm a student saving money

I know it wasn't wise but I was on short funds at that time, came at the country 3 years ago so I don't know much of what happens here, but I did try to appeal to them the thing is there was 48 day time limit for the appeal and when I realised that my time limit to get my refund was going out that's when I decided to do so. Yes it's unwise but what can I do my mom was my only source of income that time and this might seem like a sob story I just didn't want to ask for more money than I should.

Yes that's what I'm saying I was caught at emotional at that time.

Thank you for taking your time to answer.

Also to add to the overcharged fare the thing is when I 1st got overcharged obviously I thought it was a mistake (contactless) so I did it again 2nd time and still got overcharged so I thought huh a coincidence then when it happened a 3rd time that's when I realised that something is wrong with TFL and I was charged over almost £50 when that's equal to almost 10 equal return ticket obviously I was foolish to understand any of this because I didn't know there was something wrong with TFL and like I said I asked for helped at the station and also online but I realised I won't get my refund because the site was still down almost 2 months later (Late November)

 

[Haywain]

Also to add to the overcharged fare the thing is when I 1st got overcharged obviously I thought it was a mistake (contactless) so I did it again 2nd time and still got overcharged so I thought huh a coincidence then when it happened a 3rd time that's when I realised that something is wrong with TFL and I was charged over almost £50 when that's equal to almost 10 equal return ticket obviously I was foolish to understand any of this because I didn't know there was something wrong with TFL and like I said I asked for helped at the station and also online but I realised I won't get my refund because the site was still down almost 2 months later (Late November)

I think we need to be clear that this overcharging is a completely separate issue and is a matter between you and TfL. It is of no relevance to you short faring on Southeastern services. To me, it sounds as though you have been charged incomplete journey fees, but that is far from clear. It may still be possible to sort out the overcharge with TfL but having left it so long I wouldn't think it is likely. However, discussion of that matter should happen in a separate thread so as to avoid confusion with the more serious matter of the MG11 and potential prosecution.

 

[Mild]

I think we need to be clear that this overcharging is a completely separate issue and is a matter between you and TfL. It is of no relevance to you short faring on Southeastern services. To me, it sounds as though you have been charged incomplete journey fees, but that is far from clear. It may still be possible to sort out the overcharge with TfL but having left it so long I wouldn't think it is likely. However, discussion of that matter should happen in a separate thread so as to avoid confusion with the more serious matter of the MG11 and potential prosecution.

That's the thing though that I do not understand, how can I get help when neither the station nor the site could help me with it as the station does not process contactless and the site was down. I just find it a bit unfair to my part but yeah it's my mistake, honest mistake.

I just don't know what to do with this MG11 and quite nervous about the whole criminal record thing as I won't say I'm quite young but still too early for a criminal record even though I know it's my fault I just want to know if there's any way to avoid that since I don't want my mom to know about it also

 

[Haywain]

I just want to know if there's any way to avoid that

You will have a good chance of avoiding that outcome by engaging with the process when Southeastern write to you, and doing so in an honest way that acknowledges your wrongdoing.

I don't want my mom to know about it also

You are an adult and it is up to you what you tell her. However, it sounds to me that you are rather anxious about this matter and it may be better in the long run to be up front about this and tell her yourself. You may then find she is more supportive than you seem to expect. That is up to you though.

 

[Mild]

You will have a good chance of avoiding that outcome by engaging with the process when Southeastern write to you, and doing so in an honest way that acknowledges your wrongdoing.

You are an adult and it is up to you what you tell her. However, it sounds to me that you are rather anxious about this matter and it may be better in the long run to be up front about this and tell her yourself. You may then find she is more supportive than you seem to expect. That is up to you though.

Thank you, that's reassuring

I just don't want to add up to be one of her problems and since it is my fault I just wanna own up to it and do it on my own without her knowing and don't want it to affect her negatively that's why I'm trying to see what things I can do to resolve this issue.

Also if I may ask how long will it take until they write to me? I want it to get it out of my chest as soon as possible that's why

 

[Haywain]

Also if I may ask how long will it take until they write to me?

Anything from a few days to a few months. I'm afraid that you may need to be patient.

 

[Mild]

Anything from a few days to a few months. I'm afraid that you may need to be patient.

Thank you so much

 

[Mild]

UPDATE
Good Morning everybody,

I just received my letter last Thursday, which was unusually fast, thankfully, and have been checking other old threads with similar situations to see how to respond.

Just wanted to know if:
- I have to both send an email and a letter or will an email suffice?

-And also what are the DO'S and DON'TS in writing a response to the letter since I really don't know how to formally write one.

Just wanted to be sure before I send my response, better safe than sorry

Thank you to everyone who reads and responds to my questions and have a nice Sunday

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

Can you show us the letter please? Redact your name, address and any reference numbers so this stays anonymous.

 

[Mild]

Hi.

Can you show us the letter please? Redact your name, address and any reference numbers so this stays anonymous.

I'm assuming it is the generic letter sent to everybody but here it is.

 

[WesternLancer]

UPDATE
Good Morning everybody,

I just received my letter last Thursday, which was unusually fast, thankfully, and have been checking other old threads with similar situations to see how to respond.

Just wanted to know if:
- I have to both send an email and a letter or will an email suffice?

-And also what are the DO'S and DON'TS in writing a response to the letter since I really don't know how to formally write one.

Just wanted to be sure before I send my response, better safe than sorry

Thank you to everyone who reads and responds to my questions and have a nice Sunday

Southeastern is one operator that we’ve seen loose replies more than others so although you only have to reply as they say in their letter it may be wise to also print your e mail response including references numbers and postal address and post it tracked postage (cheaper than gauranteed next day delivery )

Search some other threads for advice on general format of what to cover in your reply to ask for an out of court settlement.

 

[Mild]

print your e mail response including references numbers and postal address and post it tracked postage (cheaper than gauranteed next day delivery )

In response to this, would it be better to send an email first or post the letter wait for it and then send an email? I've been back-reading the forum for this kind of situations and most of them just like you said were getting their letters lost and because of that were being sent a letter of court summoning straight away and I would love to avoid that situation to save me from the stress that it might do.

Also regarding the tracked postage, I've seen a lot of complaints about it and since I don't really post or know much about physical letters I find it better to just send an email straight away to them, saving me time, money and worries.

But what are your thoughts about this? It might seem stupid and immature of me but yeah I don't really know much about this whole 'post letter' stuffs, terribly sorry for this

 

[WesternLancer]

In response to this, would it be better to send an email first or post the letter wait for it and then send an email? I've been back-reading the forum for this kind of situations and most of them just like you said were getting their letters lost and because of that were being sent a letter of court summoning straight away and I would love to avoid that situation to save me from the stress that it might do.

Also regarding the tracked postage, I've seen a lot of complaints about it and since I don't really post or know much about physical letters I find it better to just send an email straight away to them, saving me time, money and worries.

But what are your thoughts about this? It might seem stupid and immature of me but yeah I don't really know much about this whole 'post letter' stuffs, terribly sorry for this

I would e mail it and post a copy on the same ish day. They won’t reply to you fast enough for you to post a letter and not miss their response deadline if you wait.

Either that or just e mail and hope for the best.

You will not have problems with tracked post and it costs about £2 or less iirc. Second class is adequate if you are also emailing.

 

[Mild]

Hello everyone

Just writing my draft here and if it's alright if anyone can give a read to see if there is anything I should change or add before i send it would be greatly appreciated.

<

Ref:####

Dear Prosecution team of Southeastern,

I am writing to address the incident on 00/00/000 where I was questioned by a member of staff of Southeastern about my ticket. I showed a short ticket which is unacceptable and sincerely apologise for it.

This action of mine has led me to grow from this incident, showcasing how serious this implication of my action is to the company and other ticket holders, how it affects them and fully understand my responsibility for it. Thus I have deeply regretted it and it shall not happen again. It is my responsibility to always make sure to have the correct valid ticket and have been doing so.

I wondered if it would be possible to settle this matter out of court. And if given the opportunity, I am more than gladly to cover all fees plus the administrative costs in dealing with this issue.

Kind regards,
XXX
>

Once again thank you to all who takes their time and give comment about this. Much appreciated

 

[Haywain]

This action of mine has led me to grow from this incident, showcasing how serious this implication of my action is to the company and other ticket holders, how it affects them and fully understand my responsibility for it.

Grow? Showcasing? Is this written with AI?

 

[Hadders]

Address the lketter to Mr Willis - he's the person who wrote to you.

The second paragraph needs some rewording, maybe say what you've learned.

 

[John R]

And a minor point, but it should end Yours Sincerely. It’s a formal letter.

 

[Mild]

Grow? Showcasing? Is this written with AI?

No, it's my way of saying what I've learned in this experience and have grown from it but I can remove them if it seemed AI to you

 

[John R]

I’d agree with others that the second paragraph doesn’t feel appropriate. It sounds a bit too much like management speak or someone looking to impress rather than someone writing a sincere apology.

 

[Mild]

The second paragraph needs some rewording, maybe say what you've learned.

Right, will do

someone looking to impress rather than someone writing a sincere apology.

I see, will try to make it more sincere and appropriate

<

Ref:####

Dear Mr G.R. Wills,

I am writing to address the incident on 00/00/000 where I was questioned by a member of staff of Southeastern about my ticket. I showed a short ticket which is unacceptable and sincerely apologise for it.

I understand the implication of my action and have learned how greatly serious the consequence of my action is to the company and other ticket buyers and how much money is lost due to the same action of mine. I have deeply regretted it and assure that it shall not happen again. I understand that it is my responsibility to always make sure to have the correct valid ticket and have been doing so from that point forward.

I wondered if it would be possible to settle this matter out of court. And if given the opportunity, I am more than gladly to cover all fees plus the administrative costs in dealing with this issue.

Yours Sincerely,
XXX
>

Once again thank you to all who have read and answered my enquiries about this and it is greatly appreciated.

 

[WesternLancer]

No, it's my way of saying what I've learned in this experience and have grown from it but I can remove them if it seemed AI to you

I agree with others on that as the wording seems odd / 'unnatural' to the reader, in fact what you have said here is much more clearly expressed.

As a result your revised draft is much improved IMHO.

 

[Hadders]

The second version is much better.