*UPDATED* Idea Greater Bristol area redraw

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THarris123

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Turning to Park & Rides, My idea is for Bristol to have 6 Park & Rides (3 Current, 1 Under Construction and 2 New)

These would be at:

Portway
Ashton
Brislington
Whitchurch
Lyde Green
Patchway

I don't think there should be Park & Rides at Portbury, Henbury, Hambrook, Yate, Warmley, Willsbridge or Felton.

Now to explain reasons for each location.

Portway: This was the 3rd and last site to date, built in Bristol, it is the least used site, having fewer parking spaces than the rest, but still gets a 12 min double decker service. And at First is an odd choice for a site as the population of Avonmouth is quite small, but it serves a much bigger market. Firstly people using the M4 West (South Wales), can be directed onto the M49 to use this site, it could be a secondary site for people travelling down the M5 North, it can be used for people travelling up the M5 South, it is also in a good location to get traffic from Clevedon and Portishead and Severn Beach, In my eyes it along with Patchway removes the need for a A4018 (Henbury) site, which has been proposed, as it would draw away too much business, also I see it removes the need for a Portbury (A369) site, plus when the rail line to Portishead opens, this site could become a white elephant.

Ashton: This site is the 2nd site in Bristol, it is well used and captures people living along the A370, mainly from Weston and Nailsea, but also smaller villages around, it can also be used as a site if travelling from the M5 South, although in practice Portway may provide a better option. Also now the South Bristol Link road has been built it has further removed the need for a A38 South site (Felton), as Long Ashton is much more accessible. Plus there are no major population centres in this area, and it could pull traffic away from the Airport Flyer. Also with the New airport flyer the Ashton site could be used for people travelling to/from Bristol Airport.

Brislington: As said there is already a site at this location, being the original site built in Bristol, it is very well used and is often full, so hopefully building a Whitchurch Park & Ride would relive traffic from here very slightly. It captures people from Bath and the surrounding areas. It also means there is no need for a site at Willsbridge.

Whitchurch: Now this is probably the hardest to explain, but here goes! I would build a park & ride on the A37 just on the outskirts of Whitchurch. I do believe there is demand, as people have pointed out busses to Chew Valley and Shepton Mallet might not be the most viable, but there most be another way to catch these people, so a park & ride in my eyes is the next most logical step. How ever much I would like to see the ringroad properly extended around the outside of South Bristol, this won't happen any time soon, and if it were built arguably you could say these people could use the Brislington site, but that is already very big and gets full, so really that is not a piratical option either! So an A37 site, aiming at East Somerset traffic, Chew Valley and Shepton Mallet traffic would hopefully work.

Lyde Green: As part of Metrobus there is a small park & ride being built here and is served by the X48 (Or it's metrobus replacement). I would support the building of a M4 Junction 18A at Lyde Green, with a road connecting it to the A4174 ring road and the B4465 westerleigh road. This site would then be useful for people travelling from Yate/A432/B4465 (Removing the need for a P&R there), also it would catch Bristol bound traffic from the Thames Valley (M4 East) area before it reached the M32 (Partially removing the need for a P&R at Hambrook), also catching traffic that would use a Warmley site, removing the need there.

Patchway: Personally I would like to see a Park & Ride built at Patchway, ideally on part of the former Rolls Royce site, of course this is currently being redeveloped but with "Low density, non residential development" which would make building a site there at a later date easier. A park & ride here, would catch traffic from the new Filton airfield housing development, it could be used as a secondary site for people travelling from Yate, it could catch traffic travelling down the A38 North from Gloucester/Thornbury. It could also catch people travelling down the M5 North towards Bristol, as the site would be reached sooner than the Portway site (which is the current recommended site). Also finally catch people coming from Magor, Caldicot and Chepstow via the M48. It would also stop them travelling along the M4 to reach the M32, as they would reach this site first of all. This should totally remove the need for an M32 site near Hambrook, as ALL M32 traffic could be caught beforehand.

Hopefully that explains why I think 6 sites would work, and would cover all the main arteries into Bristol. Yes there is the question of if sites would be quicker, into the centre but I am sure that could be worked on.
Where will the money come from to build the other 2 (i.e. the one at Patchway and Whitchurch)? Admittedly a Park and Ride at Whitchurch would be very beneficial, but it would have an impact on the loadings on 376 and also have an impact on the number of people that use Brislington Park and Ride (as quite a few from Chew Valley, etc use Brislington at the moment). Patchway might actually work, but both will cost a lot of money to bring in. Perhaps the Metrobus money should have been used this way.
 
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swifty

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Turning to Park & Rides, My idea is for Bristol to have 6 Park & Rides (3 Current, 1 Under Construction and 2 New)

These would be at:

Portway
Ashton
Brislington
Whitchurch
Lyde Green
Patchway

I don't think there should be Park & Rides at Portbury, Henbury, Hambrook, Yate, Warmley, Willsbridge or Felton.
The reason the current site are popular is because they are on arterial routes into Bristol with more or less a bus lane or all the way from the site to the centre of Bristol allowing journey to be ~20 minutes. That's something I find hard to see achievable, bar Lyde Green once Metrobus is running, from the other sites mentioned and from locations such as Warmley and Willsbridge (can take an hour in peak to make it into Bristol on current services, granted they are stopping services)

A site on the old car park 20 across the from UWE on the other hand could prove popular, the car park is already in situ, its a large car park, has 2+ lanes from the M32 and a new metrobus junction down the road, and would provide quick access to the city centre by bus. If only!
 
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freetoview33

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I'd aim for the same kind of trip times at the Severn Express, the one trip a day that travels UP Gloucester Road, takes 25 mins (From Bus Station to Filton Airfield)

Where a 75 at the same time, takes 35 mins (From Haymarket to Filton Airfield)

Which means the Severn Express is about 28% faster.

Lets compare to Long Ashton, in the morning rush hour. X1 takes around 12 mins from the Park & Ride to The Centre the 903 takes 10 mins! So the 903 saves around 17%. That's before you take into account the minute that metrobus might save IF they are lucky.

So I think it could work
 

freetoview33

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M5 Junction 14 - City Centre Driving

Via M32 - 22 mins
Via A38 (Coming off at J16) - 34 mins

M5 Junction 14 - City Centre (Via U.W.E CP20 P&R)

36 mins (Assuming a bus was waiting) - 163% of driving time

M5 Junction 14 - City Centre (Via Patchway P&R)

41 mins (Assuming a bus was waiting) - 120% of driving time
 

THarris123

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M5 Junction 14 - City Centre Driving

Via M32 - 22 mins
Via A38 (Coming off at J16) - 34 mins

M5 Junction 14 - City Centre (Via U.W.E CP20 P&R)

36 mins (Assuming a bus was waiting) - 163% of driving time

M5 Junction 14 - City Centre (Via Patchway P&R)

41 mins (Assuming a bus was waiting) - 120% of driving time
So when are you going to suggest this to the new metro mayor and council? When are you going to start contributing to the building of these sites, both financially and through construction?
 

Marcus Fryer

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A site on the old car park 20 across the from UWE on the other hand could prove popular, the car park is already in situ, its a large car park, has 2+ lanes from the M32 and a new metrobus junction down the road, and would provide quick access to the city centre by bus. If only!
Isn't the old car park 20 being used for building flats?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Aside from financing etc, here's my take.

The park and ride concept works on providing a strategic location on arterial routes allied to fast links into the centre, thus negating the onward time penalty of changing.

The Whitchurch proposal is arguably the weakest as there is a natural bottleneck in Whitchurch Village. There is also the issue of a relative lack of bus priority and the delays at the Airport Road junction especially. In fact, it would arguably be better if some money was spent to upgrade Scotland Lane so it doesn't flood and has passing places so that traffic can reach Briz P&R; it's what I do when heading for P&R though more traffic down Stockwood Lane might not be popular. For people from Chew Valley, it is arguably now as easy to get to Long Ashton anyway.

A Northern site would be welcome and I was thinking that the area suggested for Rovers new ground would be sensible given its location to Metrobus and proximity to the M32.

Lyde Green, to my mind, only works if J18A gets built.
 

freetoview33

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Aside from financing etc, here's my take.

The park and ride concept works on providing a strategic location on arterial routes allied to fast links into the centre, thus negating the onward time penalty of changing.

The Whitchurch proposal is arguably the weakest as there is a natural bottleneck in Whitchurch Village. There is also the issue of a relative lack of bus priority and the delays at the Airport Road junction especially. In fact, it would arguably be better if some money was spent to upgrade Scotland Lane so it doesn't flood and has passing places so that traffic can reach Briz P&R; it's what I do when heading for P&R though more traffic down Stockwood Lane might not be popular. For people from Chew Valley, it is arguably now as easy to get to Long Ashton anyway.

A Northern site would be welcome and I was thinking that the area suggested for Rovers new ground would be sensible given its location to Metrobus and proximity to the M32.

Lyde Green, to my mind, only works if J18A gets built.
Yes Lyde Green would only work with junction 18A. It's just Tory Mp wants it to be located right on the A432, which I think is madness, the original proposed location at Lyde Green makes much more sense.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Yes Lyde Green would only work with junction 18A. It's just Tory Mp wants it to be located right on the A432, which I think is madness, the original proposed location at Lyde Green makes much more sense.
We shall see what happens with J18A but I think a UWE/Frenchay option would cover the bases better than having two for Patchway and Lyde Green and would feed straight into Metrobus.
 

freetoview33

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I know Lyde Green is a done deal and it being relatively small indicates it being of limited use.
True, but there is potential to expand and IF the J18A is built there as originally planned then it would have a purpose and also by that time it would be more established. If you build a junction at the A432, then a park & ride at the M32 surely it's madness!

You build the junction to take traffic away from the M32 and part of the ring road, but if you put a park & ride there it is encouraging more people to use it again! Admittedly it is different types of traffic but traffic nevertheless!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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True, but there is potential to expand and IF the J18A is built there as originally planned then it would have a purpose and also by that time it would be more established. If you build a junction at the A432, then a park & ride at the M32 surely it's madness!

You build the junction to take traffic away from the M32 and part of the ring road, but if you put a park & ride there it is encouraging more people to use it again! Admittedly it is different types of traffic but traffic nevertheless!
Park and Rides are best located by major arterial routes. That's true in Bristol, Bath, Salisbury but York, Chester etc. Not building one near the M32 is the mad thing. The single biggest traffic flow isn't served. As an example, here's the York map showing their six sites are located - note that Askham Bar is relocated and is closer to the A64 https://www.itravelyork.info/park-and-ride/park-and-ride-sites

What it requires is a strategic location to capture inbound traffic and then a rapid link into the city centre. Lyde Green doesn't do that as it will still have to head to the M32 so adding 4 miles of heading west before it heads to the city. A Harry Stoke location just makes so much more sense.
 
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freetoview33

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The Patchway and lyde green park and ride would cut down traffic between junctions 20 and 18a (if built) arguably one of the most congested bits of road in our region. Where an M32 park and ride would only make it worse, by funneling more drivers along the M4 between junction 20 and 19!

Surely it would be better to get people off the motorway ASAP and onto buses!
 

freetoview33

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Hence why Patchway is also a better location than Henbury. Why force drivers coming from the m48 and m5 to stay on the motorway longer and cause more traffic at Cribbs Causeway? Surely getting them off sooner and onto buses is a good idea.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Hence why Patchway is also a better location than Henbury. Why force drivers coming from the m48 and m5 to stay on the motorway longer and cause more traffic at Cribbs Causeway? Surely getting them off sooner and onto buses is a good idea.
I'm not sure why you're talking about Henbury?? :?

Patchway is neither fish nor fowl. You get drivers to come off onto the A38 and travel a couple of miles, but then there is no fast way to the city centre. Gloucester Road is a no go. The route would be to head round on the ring road and then onto the Metrobus route at Frenchay. For that sort of delay, people may as well just head to Portway and get the P&R from there.

As for "The Patchway and lyde green park and ride would cut down traffic between junctions 20 and 18a (if built) arguably one of the most congested bits of road in our region. Where an M32 park and ride would only make it worse, by funneling more drivers along the M4 between junction 20 and 19!
Surely it would be better to get people off the motorway ASAP and onto buses!"....

The real elephant in the room is that J18A is nowhere near being built and won't be for many a long year yet Metrobus starts soon and a P&R could be built at Frenchay very quickly.

Well who extra is being funnelled? We're just dealing with the same traffic as currently and can you get people out of their cars? You have to attract people who can easily access a site and then have the perception of getting there quicker. From J19 of the M4, it should take about 15 mins with the Metrobus plus 15 mins of faffing getting in etc and getting a bus on the most frequent corridor. That compares well with the current car journey that's c.30-40 mins from J19.

However, from Lyde Green, you'd have probably a longer wait for a bus (but let's say it's offset by ease of entering the site) so 15 mins and then a 25 min journey into the centre.

I understand why they're pushing Lyde Green. To be absolutely honest, if I was looking to commute in from that direction on the M4, I'd sneak past the Crem from J18 ;)
 

swifty

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What about Parkway? Admittedly it isn't served by a bus and it's too far from the station, but it's built :lol:
 

freetoview33

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What about Parkway? Admittedly it isn't served by a bus and it's too far from the station, but it's built :lol:
It's not exactly the easiest place to drive to, it's basically just an additional overflow car park for Parkway, 10 mins down the road!

Also in reply to tgw there have been lots of talks of a Park & Ride at Henbury, it almost got built 15 years ago, but now the plans for new railway station are taking off they are surfacing again, I just don't see the need (I live by the proposed site, I'd happily have it there, if there was a good reason!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It's not exactly the easiest place to drive to, it's basically just an additional overflow car park for Parkway, 10 mins down the road!

Also in reply to tgw there have been lots of talks of a Park & Ride at Henbury, it almost got built 15 years ago, but now the plans for new railway station are taking off they are surfacing again, I just don't see the need (I live by the proposed site, I'd happily have it there, if there was a good reason!
Henbury would be a daft place but given that it wasn't on your list of proposals, you then mentioning it was rather confusing.

Parkway is not easy to get to and use for parking but then again, have a P&R at Hambrook/Frenchay and the Metrobus going the other way (to Sadly) can serve Parkway. I'm a member of Nuffield so I just park in the gym car park and wander round ;)
 
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